NEED HELP & ADVICE for THREE, PLEASE

Three10

My sister was involved in serious car accident just over seven months ago. She was badly injured and was brain damaged as a result of her head injuries. Since the accident she has been in Beaumont, a regional hospital and then the National Rehabilitation Hospital (NRH) in Dun Laoghaire. She was just recently discharged from the NRH but is due to go back soon for another few months (approx six months).

She was a university student at the time of the accident and in November 2009 had purchased the mobile internet modem from Three. The contract I believe was for one year. About 8 weeks after the accident, she began to regain consciousness. Her mobility was severely curtailed and she could not speak. This has improved since and she can now speak but is receiving speech therapy to improve this. She was able to move her left arm and luckily the strength in this is quite good. It was all very uncertain as to how much she understood and what she was able to remember. The staff at hospital suggested that we bring in her laptop and internet to see if she could use things like email, Facebook etc.

We tried to find the mobile internet modem that she had before the accident but we could not. It was likely it was at her house where she lived for college but her friends could not find it there either. We went to one of Three’s retail branches and ordered a new modem. They provided a replacement modem. This is where the difficulties started. The modem would not work in the hospital, at her home address or at any other location. We also tried the modem on different laptops to make sure it was not a problem with her laptop. Three were contacted about this and the modem was brought back to the branch at least twice. The modem was sent for repair but still failed to work at any locations mentioned above.

We decided to go to another provider, O2 for a mobile internet modem. This worked perfectly straight away and there were no problems with it. The staff we dealt with at the O2 store were very helpful. The Three bill had been paid monthly by direct debit. We cancelled the direct debit with my sister’s bank as there was no internet service being provided despite Three being informed of this.

After a while (I don’t have precise dates etc.) Three began telephoning my sister on her mobile. They were looking for payment for something but she could not articulate precise details to us. They began to call her on a more regular basis. She was extremely upset by these calls and had difficulty in communicating with them. She would be very stressed each time they called and embarrassed by her speech. She was receiving these calls while in her hospital bed. We were extremely concerned about this and the impact this could have on her recovery, as we were told how by her medical team that she encouraged to relax and be calm as her brain needed as much rest and calm as possible.

I am not sure if people are aware of how people with brain damage/injury should be interacted with, I certainly was not before this year. The brain is in a very delicate state and with the damage received stress or upset could potentially cause brain haemorrhaging resulting in further brain damage.

We managed to intercept a number of calls while they were calling her. We explained the situation, the severity of her condition and that she was in hospital. To our amazement there seemed to be absolutely no regard for this. They were looking for 90 EUR for cancelling of the contract. I do not know exactly how many calls we made to them to stop harassing her (somewhere between 8 and 12 I estimate) and explaining that this was causing her to be upset and stressed.

We asked them to refrain from contacting her by telephone and correspond with her in writing. They refused and argued this was their policy with such cases.

I called them at one stage again begging them not to harass my sister while she was in hospital in such a serious condition. I provided them with my own number requesting they contact me instead. At this point I also explained why the contract was cancelled. The reason being they did not provide any internet service. I am sure they can tell from their own records that the internet was not accessed on the modem but they were not obviously going to tell me that. Up until the service failed, all bills had been paid on time by direct debit. Three wanted a 90 EUR cancellation fee despite this and I explained that because they did not provide the service they actually broke the contract.

This has been the most stressful and worrying time in my sister’s life and for the whole family. The way Three have harassed a patient in such a condition is unbelievable, despite them being informed of the severity of her condition. At this stage, even if the cancellation fee was only 90 cent I believe it should NEVER be paid to them for the following reasons:

1. they failed to provide service and they can tell from their records there was no internet usage from the modem. In this case the customer was right to cancel the contract.
2. the way they have harassed my sister despite being informed of her condition is unbelievable. Any reputable company would have apologised for making the initial call. There has NEVER been anything remotely resembling an apology from Three.

Three are still calling my sister from a +44 number. We have keyed this number to her phone under the title “DON’T ANSWER” and luckily in the past couple of weeks she does not answer when she see it. However, this still causes her stress and upset. She worries (unreasonably) that they will take her to court but we reassure her that they have not got a leg to stand on.

What I want to know is, how do we stop this and our sister being harrassed. With the way Three have behaved there is NO WAY the cancellation fee will be paid. Our strategy at the moment of not answering their calls does not seem to stop the calls. We do not want to spend time with solicitors etc on this as quite frankly we have more important things to deal with and we just do not have the time for it.

Has anyone else experienced similar treatment from Three?

Your advice on a simple way to stop this right now would be much appreciated.

jor el

Your sister's medical condition is irrelevant to the contract, and I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but it is. If it worked fine in the location where she was, but only stopped because of re-locating, then it's not Three's fault, and the cancellation fee must be paid.

There is a procedure to be followed when cancelling any service, and you can't just decide not to pay. You cancel, in writing, return the modem, and pay the cancellation fee. That should be the end of it.

Three10

joel er

Thanks for your reply.

You are right. Her medical condition is irrelevant in terms of the contract. Contacting an individual in such a condition by telephone instead of in writing is WRONG in my opinion.

You obviously did not read my thread correctly. If you did you would have read that the modem did not work at her home address (ie the billing address). This is the address where it was supposed to work. I also pointed out that we tried at different locations and it did not work once.

Thanks for the reply, unhelpful and inaccurate as it is.

Three10

By the way

I am glad you do not have any issue with Three Mobile Broadband contacting by telephone and harrassing a patient in such a severe condition.

I would urge people not to buy ANY product or service from THREE if this is any indication of the way that they do business.

Sandy Ravage

I know what it is like dealing with 3. I had a mobile phone with them 2 years ago and the phone never worked. I got 3 replacements from them over the space of 2 months. I rang and told them I wanted to cancel due to the quality of service I was getting, and they wanted 210 euro to cancel.

I told them I wasn't paying this money to them as I had paid 2 phone bills without making a call. My bills actually showed no usage on the phone.

As with your sister they kept ringing me, so I just went into a solicitor and told him about the situation. I gave him the bills that showed no usage etc and he sorted it out for me. I haven't heard from them since

And all the best to your sister.

Walkman

Joe el was not being unhelpful only stating how it is, did you try calling into a 3 store to get it sorted out. Call in and ask for a manager I am sure they can help

Sponge Bob

This is a hard one, if she is in Rehab and has a legal guardianship in place right now then the legal guardian can send a cease and desist to their CEO Robert Finnegan in Writing and to the customer care manager and director of customer services.

If this harassment by their script monkeys is threatening her recovery then spell it out to the ***** that they are liable.


http://www.three.ie/pdf/3%20Code%20of%20Practice.pdf

Customer Care Manager at Hutchison 3G Ireland Ltd, PO Box 333, Dublin 2.

Robert Finnegan, CEO, Hutchison 3G Ireland Ltd, 3rd Floor, One Clarendon Row, Dublin 2

Director of Customer Services at Hutchison 3G Ireland Ltd, 3rd Floor, One Clarendon Row, Dublin 2

jor el

Three10 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, unhelpful and inaccurate as it is.

You may want to calm down a bit before continuing. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's going to change. Would you like me to lie to you instead? I told you there was a procedure to follow, which you haven't done, and that you can't just decide not to pay, which is what you did do.

The modem worked for her in college, where she was using it, I assume? Only when she tried to use it at the hospital and at home, where it hadn't been used before, were there any problems. Moving a mobile modem away from where it did work, to an area where it doesn't work, is not the network's fault. If the modem was faulty, it should be repaired or replaced, but since you had it returned, I assume it was not faulty.

Three have no idea what the medical condition of your sister is, all they know is there's a customer that hasn't paid a bill. Talking to a non-account holder, such as yourself, will not change that, as they actually cannot talk to an unauthorised person.

You want them to deal with you in writing, but what you should have done is dealt with them in writing yourself, but only if you are the one that can legally deal with your sister's affairs. If she is still competent to deal with it, then she needs to do it herself. Her doctor will be able to tell you this.

I also did read your post, which is why I know that most of the information in it is irrelevant. You have a very simple case of trying to cancel a contract before the minimum terms is up. This can be done by either;

Proving the provider is not providing the service you've paid for, which you will need to give them the opportunity to rectify, and have evidence that they have not fixed it, or;

Pay the cancellation fee as requested.

Since you did neither of these things, chose one now and be done with it.

jay93

Three10 wrote: »

By the way

I am glad you do not have any issue with Three Mobile Broadband contacting by telephone and harrassing a patient in such a severe condition.

I would urge people not to buy ANY product or service from THREE if this is any indication of the way that they do business.

the contract stands between her and three no matter if she has a severe condition i know its not all that great but since you just cancelled the direct debit and never informed them of cancelling thats why they are ringing as the contract was not finished ANY network or broadband proivders will also do this its not only three

Three10

Joer el

Howe many times does it have to be explained to you. The modem was contracted work at her bill address, which it did at the beginning. There were no problems with it that I am aware of it.
The REPLACEMENT modem NEVER worked at this address where it was supposed to and was also tried at other locations and on other laptops just so we could confirm the problem was with the laptop.

They sent the modem back for repairs and it still did not work at the location where it was contracted to work. In fact it did not work at 4 different location at which it was tried. There locations were more than 10 miles apart.

My main problem is that they are harrassing her despite being told of her condition. You seem to think this is perfectly ok and that to explain this to them on the telephone is not sufficient.

Three10

Joer el



Three did not provide the service paid for at the addresss where it was supposed to be provided. The modem was brought back to the shop twice where once it was sent for repairs. The next time we were advised to try it on a different laptop. This was done. Three were given ample opportunity to rectify the problem and they did not.

The evidence that they did not rectify it is that there was no internet usage on the replacement modem - ever.

jor el

Three10 wrote: »

Joer el

Who's that? I'm starting to think that you're deliberately spelling my name wrong as some sort of dig. You should try not taking this so personally. I've outlined how the service should be cancelled, but if you can't do that, then I can't help you.

Three10 wrote: »

Howe many times does it have to be explained to you. The modem was contracted work at her bill address, which it did at the beginning.

Thanks for finally clarifying that. If you read your original post, you say it worked for her in college, but never clarified if that was the billing address, or if the first modem she had originally worked at the billing address.

Three10 wrote: »

My main problem is that they are harrassing her despite being told of her condition. You seem to think this is perfectly ok and that to explain this to them on the telephone is not sufficient.

I never said it was OK, I said they have nothing to go on other than a person has not paid their bill. It is a legal requirement that they not deal with anyone but those authorised by the account holder, so no, they cannot be told anything by you, nor can they tell anything to you, unless authorised to do so. Try and understand that this is a legal requirement, and unless you or another family member have legal power of attorney over your sister's affairs, then illness or not, there is nothing that can be done about it.

If this is the main problem you have with them, then you're just going to have to put up with it, or pay the cancellation fee as requested and have done with the whole thing.

Three10 wrote: »

Three did not provide the service paid for at the addresss where it was supposed to be provided. The modem was brought back to the shop twice where once it was sent for repairs. The next time we were advised to try it on a different laptop. This was done. Three were given ample opportunity to rectify the problem and they did not.

Were Three contacted, by an authorised person, after the 2nd time it was returned to the shop? You were told to try it in a different computer, which you did, but did you tell Three that it still didn't work? This is unclear, and from what you've said here, it looks like no further contact was made. This is simply not good enough. At this point, Three should have been contacted, in writing, detailing the problems and the efforts to resolve it, and if not resolved, then the modem returned and the service cancelled.

Three10 wrote: »

The evidence that they did not rectify it is that there was no internet usage on the replacement modem - ever.

That can simply mean that it wasn't used, not that it couldn't be used. Bringing the laptop and modem into the shop, showing them it doesn't work, and returning the modem to them and requesting an end to the service, would be actual evidence.

watty

It's a mobile data service over a Mobile Phone Network. They don't contract to supply ANYTHING at the billing address, or indeed very much anywhere. The licence they have is on Comreg's site and all the T&C are on 3's site.

Sponge Bob

Three10 wrote: »

My main problem is that they are harrassing her despite being told of her condition. You seem to think this is perfectly ok and that to explain this to them on the telephone is not sufficient.

And you did precisely what about a guardianship ....instead of ranting and raving on here !!

Sparkyd2002

Jeese I cant believe how insensitive some of the responses are. In truth some of them are correct however. Saying that the bottom line is if you purchase something it has to work. if it never worked then you have a right to cancel. the call centre monkeys will keep calling your sister as long as she is on the system. if they are not updating it with what you are telling them you simply need to go higher up the food chain. the advice to write to three and the links provided by a previous poster are your best option but perhaps a medical report or a note from one of her medical team might be required to ensure you are believed, believe me people have come up with more elaborate ruses in the past, and no I dont believe you should pay the 90 euro.People who shouldnt have gotten away with not paying an awful lot more. if the company does not take on board what you are saying try getting advice from a solicitor http://www.justanswer.com/law/Ireland-law
Why do I now feel i will not be able to post here ever again based on the abuse i will get from the blunt posters earlier

Three10

Jor el, apologies for misspelling your username. It was genuinely not intentional. I have a lot more to concern me than intentionally misspelling a username as an attempt to insult you.

You have mentioned twice that I am taking this personally. I am not taking it personally, so I would prefer if you did not say that again, however as it is an open forum you can say what you like whether you are attempting to cause insult or not.

You never said it was “OK” that she is being harassed. I made the inference from your posts and the tone of your comments. You also never agreed that a person in severe condition should not be harassed.

Three were told numerous times about the severity of her condition so to suggest that they are only aware of an outstanding fee as shown on their system is totally untrue. They were aware of it when they rang me on my own telephone.

The second time the modem was returned to the shop, it was tried at various locations including the contracted address, and 3 other addresses at least 10 miles apart. Three were contacted (telephoned) and informed of this. At this point they were told that the contract would be cancelled and direct debit cancelled also. They were informed that they were given ample opportunity to rectify this and they did not. The laptop had been brought to the store in case there was a problem with settings etc that might have been able to adjust and the store staff witnesses it not working. Three at no stage demonstrated or provided evidence that the modem worked. For example, they did not demonstrate that the modem worked on another laptop that they had in store.

You suggest that we “put up” with it or pay the cancellation fee. We will not be paying a cancellation fee for a service that was not provided as contracted to. As for putting up with it, whatever policy and procedure there is I do not believe a person with brain damage and still in recovery should have to endure what she has endured from Three. Recently we saved the number in her phone with an indicator not to answer it so she has avoided being harassed as badly as before but the phone calls are continuing.

Three will eventually realise they have no possibility of getting the cancellation fee and are increasing the chances of a harassment case being taken against them if they continue as they have been. They should cease the calls now instead of next month or next year.

jor el

Sparkyd2002 wrote: »

Jeese I cant believe how insensitive some of the responses are.

How exactly will sympathy or sensitivity help in this case? The OP has been told how to end this situation, but doesn't seem to want to do it the right way. Instead, he is focusing on how insensitive Three are to his sister's situation. As I said at the start, it is irrelevant to the contract. Cancelling a contract is a simple matter, you just have to do it right.

Sparkyd2002 wrote: »

Why do I now feel i will not be able to post here ever again based on the abuse i will get from the blunt posters earlier

Point out where anyone has abused someone, or been abused, on this thread please.

Three10 wrote:

For example, they did not demonstrate that the modem worked on another laptop that they had in store.

OK, fair enough. Did you leave the modem with them in the store? Taking the modem away would be construed as your acceptance of the current situation. If you left it with them, together with instructions (or demands) that the contract be ended, then that is a different matter.

The new modem would have only been provided with a new minimum term contract, and that contract will not end until the modem is returned, whether it worked or not. If it never worked, and Three were unable to fix it, then the contract should be void.

If you've decided to block Three from calling, and are not going to entertain any future communication from them, then you should understand that you will likely have a 3rd party debt collection agency on to you next. This can be even more stressful than dealing with a company like Three, and the harassment levels they go to will make dealing with Three seem like a picnic.

It is very rare that ignoring a debt (whether it's real or not) will make it simply go away. Usually it escalates to even greater levels of contact and harassment.

Three10

Sparkyd2002
Thanks for your comments. The level on insensitivity did surprise me but any type of person can post on an internet forum, so that can happen. I’ll just have to overlook them.

In terms of fearing debt collectors at least that might bring it to a head. If they communicate in writing at least we can just pass the correspondence to a solicitor so they can deal with it and resolve the matter.

Jor el, sensitivity is not going to resolve the problem. I am not going to go on about the situation we were thrown into this year but a total lack of sensitivity does not help either. Could I ask you not to reply you this thread anymore? I can’t stop you obviously, I can only request that you do. You seem determined that no blame lies with Three, why I am not exactly sure.

jor el

Three10 wrote: »

In terms of fearing debt collectors at least that might bring it to a head. If they communicate in writing at least we can just pass the correspondence to a solicitor so they can deal with it and resolve the matter.

Depends on the debt collector. Some use letters, others will call, at all hours of the day and night, others will call to your door, at all hours of the day or night. Debt collection agencies are not something you should welcome.

You can safely ignore a debt collection agency though, and their threats of legal action are completely unfounded, as they cannot (and will not) take any. They will not go away though.

Three10 wrote: »

Could I ask you not to reply you this thread anymore?

Why? I've told you how to resolve the situation, several times, and warned you about the dangers of ignoring it. You seem to want to bury your head in sand in the vein hope that it will just go away. It will not, and doing this will bring more hassle upon your sister, causing even more stress for her. If you want the hardship to end, then you need to resolve it, not ignore it. All the sympathy in the world from anonymous Internet forum users will not be worth a damn to you or her.

Three10 wrote: »

You seem determined that no blame lies with Three, why I am not exactly sure.

I believe you have not followed proper procedure in cancelling the product, and as such have brought this entire situation upon yourselves. As I already said, Three have no choice but to keep contacting the account holder, as it is a crime, punishable by law, for them to do otherwise. Your failure to understand and accept this will not change the situation. Believe it or not, I have actually been trying to help you here.

The only way they will stop, is if they accept the debt is not real, or if they decide to waive it. Ignoring them will not bring that about.

A letter, detailing events and how the modem did not work, sent with the modem to Three (by registered post), signed off in your sister's name (or other authorised account holder) and including all relevant account information, is how you end this.

Conduct any and all further communication in writing, requesting Three do the same, and this will cut down on the miscommunication caused by your sister's diminished capacity. It will also make it easier for the family to screen the communications from Three and to compose relevant replies.

And that will be my final reply. I cannot make it any clearer how to end this situation, and repeating myself is obviously not working.

jay93

Jor el is just trying to get the point across that you have to cancel a contract properly and thats all even if it does not work a cancelation fee must be paid every provider charges for a cancelled contract its just the way it works we had to pay eircom for 9 months that we would not use their service even tough we cancelled either that or you will have to deal with debt collection which are a nasty bunch to deal with,its simple if you pay the ammount you owe them they will leave you alone and will not have to deal or hear from them ever again!!

Sparkyd2002

its also a simple fact that if something you buy does not work, is not fit for the purpose you purchased it for you have the right to a full refund. No contrat can supersed the sale of goods/supply of services act . These rights have been in place since 1893 for Gods sake. Also no company has the right to mercilessly pursue someone verbally. If they really think they have a case three will go postal on this....A friend of mine cancelled her vodafone mobile broadband on the phone yesterday as it did not work. She got a full refund of last 2 months she paid, no one asked her to prove how many days it did or didnt work. Its simple common sense over bureaucracy sometimes. As for forensically deconstructing each sttaement in any post you disagree with, thats just sad and implies way too much spare time......

Darragh

Hey there, 3 have been in touch to try help resolve this. I'll PM the OP now.

Cheers

Darragh
Boards.ie Communications Manager
hello@boards.ie

Three10

Thanks for passing this information on to me.

I have spoken with team leaders / managers before so I am not expecting the issue to be resolved by passing my details, but I will send them to you in any case.

I have spoken with one of the researchers (Emma) in relation to going on Liveline about this issue. I have annual leave in October so she has scheduled for me to go on then as she thinks it will raise a lot of interest and that I will need to be on the show for a long period, so I can only do that when I am not working.

Three10

For Jor el and anyone else who said Three were perfectly right in what they did here is an update:

Three have sent a letter:
- apologising for their customer service
- apoogising for the way they dealt with my sister
- confirming that the account is closed and there is no money owed
- confirming that they have made a donation to Acquired Brain Injury Ireland

jor el

Three10 wrote: »

For Jor el and anyone else who said Three were perfectly right in what they did here is an update:

Once again, I never said they were perfectly right. I said that you didn't follow proper procedure, which you didn't. Stop making up stuff.

Three10 wrote: »

Three have sent a letter:
- apologising for their customer service
- apoogising for the way they dealt with my sister
- confirming that the account is closed and there is no money owed
- confirming that they have made a donation to Acquired Brain Injury Ireland

Glad it's resolved.

Sponge Bob

Three10 wrote: »

Three have sent a letter:
- apologising for their customer service
- apoogising for the way they dealt with my sister
- confirming that the account is closed and there is no money owed
- confirming that they have made a donation to Acquired Brain Injury Ireland

This lot is feck all good to anyone, smug waste of space of a post

Who wrote to who, eg parent to CEO ?
By reg post or by email?
Ad Hoc or per terms of complaints procedure linked above?
Were they parent or legal guardian of contract holder?
Did the person respond or delegate a minion?
Was it dealt with by Mumbai ...or entirely from Ireland?