The quality of Irish Universities

oppenheimer1

A good news story at last. The Times higher education world league tables, using the revised method looking at performance more closely, puts two Irish universities in the top 100, Trinity at 76 and UCD at 94. Something we should be proud of considering we are such a small country and those larger such as Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Norway all place lower than us.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

amacachi

Trinity's at 50 something in another list so I'll ignore this one. :pac:

delta_bravo

amacachi wrote: »

Trinity's at 50 something in another list so I'll ignore this one. :pac:

Not anymore, they're down in the 80s now in the other list and UCD is out of the top 100. I cant remember the name of it but I think its more recognised than the THES

RMD

I hate people who complain about the quality of Irish universities. We're a very small country in comparison to the vast majority in that list and what set's us apart is we offer free education to our citizens other than the registration fee.

Ireland does very well considering what we have on paper.

amacachi

delta_bravo wrote: »

Not anymore, they're down in the 80s now in the other list and UCD is out of the top 100. I cant remember the name of it but I think its more recognised than the THES

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/results This one? Can't see an updated version.

Jev/N

amacachi wrote: »

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/results This one? Can't see an updated version.

That's the one, TCD dropped from 43 to 52 and UCD fell below the 100 mark

i-digress

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A good news story at last. The Times higher education world league tables, using the revised method looking at performance more closely, puts two Irish universities in the top 100, Trinity at 76 and UCD at 94. Something we should be proud of considering we are such a small country and those larger such as Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Norway all place lower than us.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

It's good in one way, but it gives the government an excuse to continue to under invest in third and fourth level education. 'Ah they're grand without it' etc.

ejmaztec

Irish universities "could do better".:(

darragh16

They've always been a Top 100, shame the others couldnt push the top 100 such as DCU and the NUI's

Noodleworm

All the universities on those lists are very very old, in fact the older, the higher on the list. DCU is a lot smaller and only about 20 years old.

starlit

UCC came up in the rankings so thats a good sign. I think its a great University.

Einhard

Meh. I take all these lists with a pinch of salt. They're generally compiled on how often an institution's staff are cited in peer reviewed papers, which is all well and good if you're MIT or CalTech, or have large, well funded technical schools, but not so good if you focus on the Arts, or have a more varied curriculum.

SnowSurfer

Who cares about ranks? I'm in trinity at the moment and I think it's amazing! I never want to leave! I'v also been around ucd and dcu, attending lectures with friends in those universities and I think the facilities and quality of education is exceptional!

Besides,the higher the rank, the more expensive the fees, the more difficult it is to get a place.

Bogsnorkler

Head someone mention at graduation that Ireland has 3 universities in the top 200, which equates to 3 in the top 2% in the world. Not bad if true.

steddyeddy

Im about to return to education in ucd, it will be my first time in a irish university as I was formerly educated in idaho state university. I know that in america ucd would be held in higher regard than trinity in terms of the sciences because for some reason trinity award a bac in some of the sciences!

steddyeddy

Einhard wrote: »

Meh. I take all these lists with a pinch of salt. They're generally compiled on how often an institution's staff are cited in peer reviewed papers, which is all well and good if you're MIT or CalTech, or have large, well funded technical schools, but not so good if you focus on the Arts, or have a more varied curriculum.

you hit the nail on the head there I would take much notice of it at all and i would rather see a breakdown of how the sciences arts do at the various colleges.

Mark200

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im about to return to education in ucd, it will be my first time in a irish university as I was formerly educated in idaho state university. I know that in america ucd would be held in higher regard than trinity in terms of the sciences because for some reason trinity award a bac in some of the sciences!

There's absolutely no difference, in terms of standard, between a BA and a BSc

rossie1977

Einhard wrote: »

Meh. I take all these lists with a pinch of salt. They're generally compiled on how often an institution's staff are cited in peer reviewed papers, which is all well and good if you're MIT or CalTech, or have large, well funded technical schools, but not so good if you focus on the Arts, or have a more varied curriculum.

yep, its based on the universities quality of research

robby^5

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

Head someone mention at graduation that Ireland has 3 universities in the top 200, which equates to 3 in the top 2% in the world. Not bad if true.

DCU is in the top 300, it's 279th. But these polls dont count for much imo.

FreudianSlippers

We are (or at least were for the past 30 years) one of the top exporters of educated people in the world. Sure it's a shame to see people leaving this country, but when we have such a small country with a high number of educated individuals it's bound to happen.
I find it hard to see how our universities could be that bad when we export so many intelligent and educated people.

I've had good experiences in University in Ireland and I think the people that want to point out how **** education has gotten are more likely people who never went to Uni and are trying to justify something.

flash1080

OisinT wrote: »

I've had good experiences in University in Ireland and I think the people that want to point out how **** education has gotten are more likely people who never went to Uni and are trying to justify something.

Or maybe they're intelligent people who've noticed "how **** education has gotten".

YFlyer

Australian Universities usually do quite well in these rankings.

pickarooney

I've noticed that the United States does quite well in these rankings, for a nation of idiots.

(do I need to put something in brackets here?)

YFlyer

pickarooney wrote: »

I've noticed that the United States does quite well in these rankings, for a nation of idiots.

(do I need to put something in brackets here?)

A lot of money from Alumni.

aDeener

OisinT wrote: »

We are (or at least were for the past 30 years) one of the top exporters of educated people in the world. Sure it's a shame to see people leaving this country, but when we have such a small country with a high number of educated individuals it's bound to happen.
I find it hard to see how our universities could be that bad when we export so many intelligent and educated people.

I've had good experiences in University in Ireland and I think the people that want to point out how **** education has gotten are more likely people who never went to Uni and are trying to justify something.

well we wouldn't be such good exporters if so many didnt leave :pac:

Killer Pigeon

I find the world rankings quite biased. Why are there so many universities from English speaking countries up there?

Anyway, I don't think that the academic standards in Irish universities have decreased over the past year. I think the decline in the world rankings was mainly due to the lack of funding and investment by ... guess who? That's right, the government. So, just blame the government and the recession, seems to be quite a common yet valid solution here on AH.

prinz

Outside of lists and tables I don't think we do that well tbh, having seen what was expected of students at a couple of European universities, there was no comparison in educational quality whatsoever. Have spoken to a number of foreign students who spent time here and it's treated as a doss year/semester.

southsiderosie

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I find the world rankings quite biased. Why are there so many universities from English speaking countries up there?

Anyway, I don't think that the academic standards in Irish universities have decreased over the past year. I think the decline in the world rankings was mainly due to the lack of funding and investment by ... guess who? That's right, the government. So, just blame the government and the recession, seems to be quite a common yet valid solution here on AH.

Because they generally have the most money and attract the best research faculty. US universities in particular poach everyone else's top faculty & researchers (although this is changing a bit). And most of the top journals are published in English.

Over the next several decades, I think a lot of European universities are going to start getting squeezed out of higher ranking slots by Asian universities, both due to lavish funding and high levels of technical research output.

Fringe

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im about to return to education in ucd, it will be my first time in a irish university as I was formerly educated in idaho state university. I know that in america ucd would be held in higher regard than trinity in terms of the sciences because for some reason trinity award a bac in some of the sciences!

So do Cambridge and Oxford.

southsiderosie

pickarooney wrote: »

I've noticed that the United States does quite well in these rankings, for a nation of idiots.

(do I need to put something in brackets here?)

When we're good we're very very good, but when we're bad we're horrid.

MultiUmm

I have to ask, are these American universities who always score the top places really the best universities in the world?
I'm not saying they're not very good, they're probably great, but who decides what universities come first? How does the system involved with judging them and giving them ranks work?

recylingbin

Where's DIT?

Jev/N

MultiUmm wrote: »

How does the system involved with judging them and giving them ranks work?

This was already answered AFAIK and it says it in the OP's link.

Anyway, it's to do with:

Teaching — the learning environment

30% of overall score.
#
International mix — staff and students

5% of overall score.
#
Industry income — innovation

2.5% of overall score.
#
Research — volume, income and reputation

30% of overall score.
#
Citations — research influence

32.5% of overall score.

MultiUmm

Jev/N wrote: »

This was already answered AFAIK and it says it in the OP's link.

Anyway, it's to do with:

Thanks, think I missed that. Browsing boards while sick and tired leads to missing a lot of things.

4zn76tysfajdxp

recylingbin wrote: »

Where's DIT?

Dublin.

Killer Pigeon

pickarooney wrote: »

I've noticed that the United States does quite well in these rankings, for a nation of idiots.

(do I need to put something in brackets here?)

Nah, Americans are just good at advertising. Many of the graduate students in American universities aren't even American at all.

Killer Pigeon

southsiderosie wrote: »

Because they generally have the most money and attract the best research faculty. US universities in particular poach everyone else's top faculty & researchers (although this is changing a bit). And most of the top journals are published in English.

Over the next several decades, I think a lot of European universities are going to start getting squeezed out of higher ranking slots by Asian universities, both due to lavish funding and high levels of technical research output.

I'm actually quite happy to see those Asian and European universities rising up. To be fair, they haven't had much attention.

steddyeddy

Mark200 wrote: »

There's absolutely no difference, in terms of standard, between a BA and a BSc

yes im aware of this however the fact that some universities refer to a degree in maths say, as a bachelor of arts is a bit ridiculous. Tcd have a excellent science record however I know from my time in the states that a ba in science wasnt seen on a par with a bsc even though the content was the same!

steddyeddy

pickarooney wrote: »

I've noticed that the United States does quite well in these rankings, for a nation of idiots.

(do I need to put something in brackets here?)

Having studied there I can say that the people I studied there with were anything but idiots, in my field anyway. I can only speak for my area of work (zoology) but america certainly leads the way in many scientific fields.

steddyeddy

Fringe wrote: »

So do Cambridge and Oxford.

yes it seems to be the anglicised way of labeling science

Killer Pigeon

steddyeddy wrote: »

yes im aware of this however the fact that some universities refer to a degree in maths say, as a bachelor of arts is a bit ridiculous. Tcd have a excellent science record however I know from my time in the states that a ba in science wasnt seen on a par with a bsc even though the content was the same!

To be fair, the Irish classification is different to the American classification. Trinity offers a BA for science degrees because of historical reasons, Oxford and Cambridge do the same I think. It derives from the olden days when such things as, for example, physics wasn't seen as science, rather an art (it used to be known as natural philosophy). UCD offers a BSc mainly because it is a newer university than TCD (UCD was founded in the 1850's), and adapted a more modern form of classification. It's only tradition and has nothing to do with the level of difficulty of the degree. A BSc from UCD would be on par (in terms of academic rigour) with a BA (in science) from Trinity.
Nevertheless, in my biased opinion a "Bachelor of Science" has a nice ring to it in comparison to a "bachelor of Arts". Only saying this 'cause I go to UCD, I'd probably say differently if I went to TCD.

W.Shakes-Beer

Gabriela Most Stampede wrote: »

Dublin.

I enjoy your posts more because of the picture of that troll grinning git in your avatar

steddyeddy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

To be fair, the Irish classification is different to the American classification. Trinity offers a BA for science degrees because of historical reasons, Oxford and Cambridge do the same I think. It derives from the olden days when such things as, for example, physics wasn't seen as science, rather an art (it used to be known as natural philosophy). UCD offers a BSc mainly because it is a newer university than TCD (UCD was founded in the 1850's), and adapted a more modern form of classification. It's only tradition and has nothing to do with the level of difficulty of the degree. A BSc from UCD would be on par with a BA (in science) from Trinity.

yes I agree, the course content is no different, the historical reasons aside I think that they should move on.

Yes the american system is different I tend to confuse people here (im not american by the way but irish who went to study there) when they ask wheter I have a bsc or ba in zoology.

the american unis offer a lot more in the way of access courses as a way for people who may be from disadvantaged backgrounds to get into a area of study. my problem with the irish system is the leaving cert plays to much of a roll in deciding who gets educated.

Killer Pigeon

steddyeddy wrote: »

america certainly leads the way in many scientific fields.

Europe is probably better for physics (especially for high energy particle physics, e.g. CERN) but America would probably be better at engineering (NASA).

steddyeddy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Nah, Americans are just good at advertising. Many of the graduate students in American universities aren't even American at all.

Im exhibit A!

Killer Pigeon

steddyeddy wrote: »

the american unis offer a lot more in the way of access courses as a way for people who may be from disadvantaged backgrounds to get into a area of study. my problem with the irish system is the leaving cert plays to much of a roll in deciding who gets educated.

I agree totally. However, the American higher education system seems very biased. Very little people from poorer backgrounds go on to university.

I think university access for people in disadvantaged areas is becoming easier nowadays in Ireland. HEAR points were introduced a while back to give students from disadvantaged backgrounds extra points in the LC.

I think there is too much emphasis put on the LC though (I mean if you think about it, 1 or 2 weeks of exams might determine the rest of your life).

steddyeddy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Europe is probably better for physics (especially for high energy particle physics, e.g. CERN) but America would probably be better at engineering (NASA).

America leads the way for zoology in my opinion I hate the cambridge oxford aproach

steddyeddy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I agree totally. However, the American higher education system seems very biased. Very little people from poorer backgrounds go on to university.

I think university access for people in disadvantaged areas is becoming easier nowadays in Ireland. HEAR points were introduced a while back to give students from disadvantaged backgrounds extra points in the LC.

I think there is too much emphasis put on the LC though (I mean if you think about it, 1 or 2 weeks of exams might determine the rest of your life).

It was indeed quite biased but they introduced the access courses to combat this. Ireland is indeed doing well in this area and im glad it is, the current educated in ireland are also mostly from families with above average wealth not the most intelligent or affective in their chosen area