Selfish beyond repair? (long post)

LegacyUser

Hi guys

My head is melted at the moment and my self-esteem is on the floor and I guess I could do with some independent advice.

I'm a 25 year old single female who moved abroad a few weeks ago with a good college friend of mine. We both left good jobs to come over here, mainly for the experience ('do it while you're young' and whatnot) but also to find jobs in our line of work that will hopefully add on our CVs and further our careers when we move back home.

We're both very different, I always knew this. She is extroverted, hot-headed, confrontational and tends to get impassioned at the most mundane of things. I am far more laidback, like to take things as they come for the most part, low maintenance, don't tend to speak up when something is p1ssing me off and instead let it fester (not great I know, but it's how I am)

Her fiery rants and rages have always humoured me, until we moved in together three weeks ago over here and they began to be directed at me.

She's a real people person and I must say a great friend - but as I'm learning she expresses her friendship in a way that I don't - buying me little things now and again, cooking for me, lending me money when I need it etc etc. This makes me sound like a horrible friend but I really don't think I am - I'm just not in the habit of doing these sorts of things for other people. I listen, I offer advice, I console....I don't think I'm a bad friend. Just a different one from her.

To put into perspective - since college I have lived and rented with randomers, none of whom I knew or befriended in any significant way...I always had a busy life so was happy to just let me home life be inconsequential to my social life etc but now I'm beginning to think I'm in the habit of just doing things for myself only and becoming a bit selfish.

My friend over here is very domestic and has taken it upon herself to cook for me - I don't cook, never asked her to, she just assumed this role...anyway last night we had a blazing row, one so huge like I have never experienced before with anyone...which started because I decided to have a bowl of beans for dinner, without involving her in my decision.
Sounds fcuking ridiculous now that I write it down...

But this, to her, indicated that I hadn't factored her into my decision-making (as in, 'what are we going to do for dinner', which is what she would always be thinking) and culminating in her flipping the head over my pulling out of arrangements to go out with her last night because I had a job interview to prep for today. I did this at the last minute, in what can only be described as a selfish way, as I knew she had been really looking forward to it and I let her down by deciding not to go.

She called me selfish, said I don't care remotely for her, think about no-one but myself and don't do anything for her, when she's always doing stuff for me.

This has opened my eyes big-time to this trait in me and it completely freaks me out as it's a trait that I deplore in others.

With reference to the food thing, I had an eating disorder a few years ago so tend to be a bit weird / controlling about food - at home I was in the habit of picking things up on the go, cooking at random, but there was no organization and now I'm finding it hard to adjust to the elaborate dishes that my friend insists on cooking and I guess the 'lack of control' that this gives me. Eating and my food choices are something I feel I need to make my own decisions about, otherwise I get stressed and panicky, but apparently not factoring her into it makes me selfish.

With regards the going-out thing...I've done this twice since we've arrived. On the first occasion, she wanted to meet friends from back home who are over here, I don't know them as well as she does. I never swore to it (another misunderstanding - she thinks I did) and on the day I had just come back from a busy work shift and just needed to go to bed. She called me selfish, anti social, said I may as well go home if I'm going to just sleep for our year over there and so on and so forth.

This is just killing me. It's making me realise I have become used to doing my own thing, thinking about no-one else but myself, not factoring others into my decision making. Incidentally I've been permanently single since college and ever since and am beginning to wonder if this is why.

But on the other hand, I'm divided. I feel as though even if I did open myself up a bit more, I could never get used to her nature of needing to do everything together, and I feel as though her outbursts, though justified, have been so nasty, over the top (I mean, yelling and screaming at me, not giving me a chance to respond, calling me names, emotional blackmail and manipulation) that they're almost bordering on bullying. I feel overpowered and cornered.

I just really don't know what to do. I knew she was fiery and easily agitated coming over here, and I had a bad gut feeling about us living together, but I never expected things to escalate this fast and this soon. I can't afford to move out as I haven't secured work yet (that other thing was work experience I've been doing since I arrived) and life in this city is really, really expensive, and I don't want to end up going home.

Has anyone ever been in this position before? Right now I feel like I am just a horrible person to live with and the most selfish and lazy person on the face of the planet, but on the other hand, I simply can't deal with recurring incidents like the massive blazing row we had last night. My nerves will be in tatters and thinking about it makes me dread my year over here.

I feel as though I am on the verge of losing a good friend, that she has lost all respect for me, and I've never felt so alone. We pretty much only have each other over here at the moment and I can't even vent to my friends or family about it over skype as she is always in the apartment.

Sorry for the uber long post. Any advice or insight that anyone has to offer is really appreciated, I just really am at my wit's end right now and can't see the wood for the trees.

Ickle Magoo

Hey OP

Would you both be able to sit down and draw up some ground rules for living together? Make sure you include no shouting and respect for your opinion. The only way to get on with no resentment and annoyances sharing a living space is to be completely honest and make sure boundaries are well defined.

Also, people are inherently selfish, it's not just you - she will be too and wanting a bit of independence and freedom for yourself is not a bad thing.

Best of luck

LegacyUser

Thanks Ickle Magoo. I'll definitely broach the ground rules idea with her.

I really think the food thing is going to be unsurmountable. All I get is grief from her over my food choices (I also have IBS so there are foods that I simply can't eat, but she'll say things like 'maybe you have stomach problems because of the way you eat') and it is something I am oversensitive to because of my food issues in general.

She also judges me on everything and whenever she asks me to help her out in the kitchen or whatever, it's constant criticism I get like I am a five year old child. I'm by no means a domestic goddess but have always gotten by fine, I always clean up after myself and respect her lifestyle around the apartment, I just wish she would respect mine. Everything has to be her way or else the judging, manipulation, guilting and invariably shouting starts.

God, she just has me doubting myself in every way. I'm not a bad person, I have selfish tendencies but the way she's treating me it's like I murdered someone!

LegacyUser

Aw, it sounds like you're in a really tough situation OP. By virtue of the fact that you two only have each other over there and you're spending so much time together you're bound to slip into a kind of co-dependent relationship, and spending so much time with one person, no matter how well you would get along in other circumstances, is bound to lead to friction.

I definitely don't think you're being selfish. As you have worked out for yourself, you seem to just be two very different people who expect different things from your friends. You are independent by nature, whereas she needs more social interaction. She is expecting to get that constant interaction from you, and it's just not your style to need company and validation all the time, so there's a clash.

You say that you are the one who lets things fester and that your friend is different, but it sounds like she has been letting her dissatisfaction build up too. Maybe if she was at home where some of the people around her were giving her reassurance, she wouldn't expect so much gushing appreciation/reciprocation of her efforts to cook etc. from you.

I agree with Ickle Magoo that setting ground rules for living together - no shouting, name calling, etc. - would help you two to communicate respectfully with each other - which you are going to have to do, if you're 'stuck' with each other for the year. Maybe, after setting these ground rules, you should have a chat with her and explain that you didn't realise your apparent ungratefulness would bother her so much, but that you are just different people with different ways. If your issues with food aren't too prohibitive, maybe you could agree to cook for each other two or three times a week each, and that you will both fend for yourselves on other days. Maybe set up a rota?

To go back your main question, I really don't believe that you are an unusually selfish person. You're just set in your ways and used to looking after yourself. It seems that you don't expect her to take care of you the way she does, but when she does things for you because it's her nature to do so, and you don't always reciprocate in the same way (but in other ways - by being there for her, etc.) she gets annoyed. You are both justified in feeling the way you do, and neither of you is in the wrong, but your friend really needs to be more respectful in her way of broaching it with you than she has been.

Apologies for the length of the post. Best wishes.

TitoPuente

You definitely need to set boundaries as soon as possible with her screaming and shouting. Not cool.

That said, I absolutely hate selfish people. I have one or two friends who used to regularly back out of things at the last minute or only half commit to things and they have left me stuck time and again. Needless to say I plan nothing with them in isolation anymore. Ever. My last g/f was also very selfish in this regard and, well, it all ended pretty quickly.

The way to avoid this? Simple. Be open and communicative. If you don't want to do something - just say so! If you want to back out of something at the last minute, then have a good reason. It doesn't matter what it is - exhaustion, something personal you can't discuss... doesn't matter. People backing out of plans at the last minute because 'they just can't be bothered' or without any reason at all is extremely disrespectful.

Sounds like you both need to work on your issues TBH

LegacyUser

mememe? wrote: »

This is just killing me. It's making me realise I have become used to doing my own thing, thinking about no-one else but myself, not factoring others into my decision making. Incidentally I've been permanently single since college and ever since and am beginning to wonder if this is why.

But on the other hand, I'm divided. I feel as though even if I did open myself up a bit more, I could never get used to her nature of needing to do everything together, and I feel as though her outbursts, though justified, have been so nasty, over the top (I mean, yelling and screaming at me, not giving me a chance to respond, calling me names, emotional blackmail and manipulation) that they're almost bordering on bullying. I feel overpowered and cornered.

You're both right. You both have your way of doing things. But I'm not surprised your friend blew her top. The friendship does sound rather one sided, with your friend making huge effort, and you (seemingly) not giving anything back in return. Have you told your friend why you prepare food for yourself? Your friend sounds like the sort who would have the decency to listen if you wanted to tell her anything. I don't think she's a bully at all. She's very straightforward with you, so the least you can do is be straightforward with her.

This can be all sorted out with a calm conversation, starting with you apologising to your friend for forgetting to think about her.

LegacyUser

If you're friend is shouting at you and calling you names - bullying and intimidating you by the sounds of things I can't see (from my own experience) that having a calm conversation will be that easy. You said you're nerves will be in tatters if this goes on - its obviously affecting you very badly. Maybe you're more sensitive than she is and she's taking advantage of your vulnerability instead of appreciating you for who you are. You're obviously very willing to look at your flaws and failings and acknowledge them and I'm sure if she has known you long enough that she has seen that in you before and should appreciate that.
I can't stand it when people get into 'you're selfish...you're this, you're that' nobody knows what anyone else has been through in their lives and doesn't have the right to tell you whats wrong with you. Besides 'Them without sin' and all of that!

I've lived with people who were very open about sharing food and lives and all of that and its not something I was used to. It was great at first but there was a blazing row at the end. I think this is because although I appreciated there ways and was happy to be a bit more like them I couldn't change overnight! And I wanted balance, it was great to be around open people who shared food - nearly all food - and talked about everything. Looking back that was a bit too extreme for me, I needed some privacy and if I didn't tell them exactly what I was doing - practically every thought that was in my head it seemed - they resented it and saw me as sneaky and sly. Sorry if I'm going off the point here!!

It just seems like you are being quite hard on yourself. Anyone can learn to be a bit less selfish and do little things for others and give them presents or whatever. Being a supportive friend is far more important I think. I know its more in her nature to have outbursts and maybe she just wants to get things out in the open but it doesn't seem like she's being very supportive if she's yelling and calling you names.

But you know the situation so maybe you can just have a calm conversation and explain that maybe being so open about everything is a bit of culture shock for you or whatever and that you'd appreciate her patience.

Curry Addict

your young, learning about life and shaping the person you will become. you can learn a lot in your current situation. mutual support is very important when u live abroad. take the good side of your friend and try to learn from it.
communication is a key thing and you really need to work on that and this is a great oportunity. there is a lot of positives in your situation and dont be so hard on yourself im sure you have some great attributes too.

LegacyUser

Thanks to all who have posted for some great advice, it's a massive help.

Thanks especially to the first unregistered poster - your post was a huge consolation and is helping me to make sense of my situation. I do think I am set in my ways and used to a more independent lifestyle than my friend. I haven't been able to respond to her claims of my selfishness etc with this as she's been so adamant about how difficult I am to live with, how horrible it is that food is automatically an individual thing for me, how I don't 'react' to her in the way I should....that is has all just overwhelmed me and made me feel like a terrible friend and generally a cold-hearted person.

I suppose being over here in general has been a tough experience. While it's an amazing opportunity, dealing with being so far away from family and friends, getting the apartment sorted, the continued job anxiety, culture shock etc has put pressure on us both and it was probably inevitable that we were going to turn on each other at some point.

The good news is the past day and a half has been great, we've been getting on, not getting in each other's way, enjoying each other's company and no major issues. I know it's a matter of time before we have our next clash though if we don't come to some sort of a mutual plan, but we've at least been adult enough to be able to communicate about our differences without screaming at each other.

I think I should learn to invest more in others though and consider them more in my daily life and hopefully this is something I can work on. However I just know that I'm always going to need my privacy and I hope my friend can learn to accept this. I don't think she fully understands how important it is for me to do stuff on my own - maybe the food thing and the not-going-out thing is a manifestation of that need for personal space, albeit a rather selfish one. Maybe I should learn to get that space without letting others down. Maybe I should take up jogging or something!

Anyway fingers crossed I'm not posting here soon with another horror story...and fingers crossed I get a job sooner rather than later. I think a part of the problem is that we're both completely crap at being unemployed, are finding it a bit frustrating and taking that out on each other.

Thanks again to all, there are some great people in this forum x

TitoPuente

mememe? wrote: »

I just know that I'm always going to need my privacy and I hope my friend can learn to accept this. I don't think she fully understands how important it is for me to do stuff on my own - maybe the food thing and the not-going-out thing is a manifestation of that need for personal space, albeit a rather selfish one.

Everyone needs their privacy and personal space. You should just say that to her. Passively aggressively letting her know by breaking arrangements that you made with her or letting her down at the last minute is selfish... as well as being highly disrespectful. If you don't want to do something, just say so! Or if you need your breathing space, just say so!

Having said that, if your friend was an emotionally healthy women, she would just stop making so much of an effort and stop getting so wound up. I always like to do stuff with friends but I do have friends who prefer their own company, do things alone a lot and aren't really motivated to go out and about or go for a bite to eat on impulse. I generally give these people their space rather than getting hysterical at them.

LegacyUser

op it sounds like your flatmate wants to keep you under a compliment to be honest. From now on you should probably just cook your own meals

D rog

You sound like very very different people, which is not necessarily bad in a friendship but is not working when you are living together.
A few things strike me..

Tell her about the food issues you have and that she needs to stop cooking for you because of these issues, and let you be the way you are, that it is not an insult.

Did I pick you up correctly when you said you didn't go out after the row, intentionally to upset her? If so that's very petty and you are winding her up.

She's obviously a very emotional character, and her maybe slightly clingy controlling behaviour speaks volumes of her fear of being alone, abroad and all the changes it brings. Maybe this will calm after a few weeks.

Sit down, have a chat about living together and acknowledge your differences and what you will and won't do together, and try to go from there?

Zen65

mememe? wrote: »

Right now I feel like I am just a horrible person to live with and the most selfish and lazy person on the face of the planet, but on the other hand, I simply can't deal with recurring incidents like the massive blazing row we had last night. My nerves will be in tatters and thinking about it makes me dread my year over here.

I have a few friends from college years who have some of your traits: very fussy about food, and frequently pulling out at the last minute from agreed plans. All of these friends are still single and now in their late 30's & 40's.

The issue for them is that they have never learned to compromise on issues with their friends (or family), and they tend to get into frequent rows (often claiming to be the victim), and (this next bit is conjecture by me - ) without the skill to compromise they cannot adjust to being in a relationship.

So yes, your friend sounds a little like hard work - based on your description. But you sound like somebody who thinks they should always be free to do things their way, while still expecting to maintain friendships. You cannot really have it both ways; friendship, like love, requires compromise.

So as Ickle Magoo & others have said, if you want to avoid the relationship breaking down, you need to open up a little to your friend and tell explain to her the issues you have with food. You should also agree that in future where plans are made you will stick to those plans, and if you cannot do that then you will be honest enough to give plenty of advance warning. I strongly suspect you always knew you were going to pull out of the arrangements, but left it late to tell her to avoid having to argue your position?

Making this platonic relationship work in a way you are both happy with is very good life-skill training for more personal relationships you will have in the future. Don't be a doormat, don't be selfish either.


And importantly, be at peace with your decisions.


Good luck,

Z