Explain please.

sellerbarry

Could someone please explain to me, why I should encourage my son/or anyone to study the bible and live their life by it? Along with all the goings on with abuse etc, I have come across some very disturbing entries in this BOOK.
Deuteronomy 21:18
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.

Levictus 20:9
'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.


Exodus 31:15
In a nutshell. Whoever works on a Sunday shall be put to death.

These are just a few i've found. There are plenty more. There is no way this (religion) will play a part in my or my families life again. Not bible bashing, but it is worrying when you read these entries. Thanks all

prinz

sellerbarry wrote: »

These are just a few i've found. There are plenty more. There is no way this (religion) will play a part in my or my families life again. Not bible bashing, but it is worrying when you read these entries. Thanks all

Which religion? You cannot cherry-pick quotes, you need to read the whole thing and notice how things change as you progress through the Bible, particularly in the New Testament.

Just to take the first of you selective quotes re a stoning. Compare that to what Jesus later said..'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'...

PDN

sellerbarry wrote: »

Could someone please explain to me, why I should encourage my son/or anyone to study the bible and live their life by it? Along with all the goings on with abuse etc, I have come across some very disturbing entries in this BOOK.
Deuteronomy 21:18
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.

Levictus 20:9
'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.


Exodus 31:15
In a nutshell. Whoever works on a Sunday shall be put to death.

These are just a few i've found. There are plenty more. There is no way this (religion) will play a part in my or my families life again. Not bible bashing, but it is worrying when you read these entries. Thanks all

So the Jewish religion isn't for you. Fair enough!

sellerbarry

prinz wrote: »

Which religion? You cannot cherry-pick quotes, you need to read the whole thing and notice how things change as you progress through the Bible, particularly in the New Testament.

Just to take the first of you selective quotes re a stoning. Compare that to what Jesus later said..'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'...

Hi Prinz. Maybe i'm coming across a bit hot headed about this, but believe me i'm just trying to make sense of it all. God says one thing, then Jesus says another? A member of my family is jehovahs witness and i've just started looking into different different beliefs etc. I will have a few more questions later on. Thanks for replying so quickly

prinz

sellerbarry wrote: »

Hi Prinz. Maybe i'm coming across a bit hot headed about this, but believe me i'm just trying to make sense of it all. God says one thing, then Jesus says another?

The Bible details events and interactions and communications spanning many centuries. How God interacted with people changed over time. As Christians (Christianity forum) generally people place more importance on the New Testament.. as opposed to the earliest books of the Old. For instance democracy in ancient Greece is different to democracy today, to form a decent opinion of democracy overall one would hve to study it's entire history and development, as opposed to finding the faults in the system in ancient Greece.

sellerbarry wrote: »

I will have a few more questions later on. Thanks for replying so quickly

No problem, but there are people onhere far more qualified than I am to give you advice on this. Give it time.

Fanny Cradock

The Bible is comprised of 66 individual books that span many thousands of years. The OT is primarily a story of God's interaction with the Israelites and how Israel was to be a light unto the world. The Torah, or the first 5 books of the Bible, are not seen as binding to Christians. The NT is the point where Christianity emerges out out from Judaism. While faithful Jews still await arrival of the Messiah Christians believe that he arrived some 2000 years ago and that the whole story of Israel and her struggles pointed towards Jesus.

Israel was a theocracy and the laws handed down were intended to preserve a small and weak nation from destruction by any number of the hostile forces that surrounded it. The law also served another function and that was social cohesion - to keep Israel form tearing itself apart. I don't think you can say that these laws were ever considered to be ideal proclamations. Rather, they were what was required given the circumstances.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

The Bible details events and interactions and communications spanning many centuries. How God interacted with people changed over time.........

So wait........ is what you're saying that God got more lenient as he got older?

Is that why he's never around these days?

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

So wait........ is what you're saying that God got more lenient as he got older? Is that why he's never around these days?

See post above.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

See post above.

So, according to Christianity, the first 5 books of the biblr are a lie? Am i getting this right?

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, according to Christianity, the first 5 books of the biblr are a lie? Am i getting this right?

Predictably, no, that's not even close to what has been said.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

Predictably, no.

So, why aren't they "binding" to Christians exactly? And if they are not "binding", why are they there at all?

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, why aren't they "binding" to Christians exactly?

Depends what you mean by binding, but they do deal with the old/Mosaic covenant etc as opposed to the new which has a much bigger bearing on a Christian life. As such they have a much greater relevance in Judaism IMO than Christianity.

MrStuffins wrote: »

..And if they are not "binding" why are they there at all?

To complete the picture so to speak.

Fanny Cradock

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, according to Christianity, the first 5 books of the biblr are a lie? Am i getting this right?

How did you come to the conclusion that anybody was saying this? We can either try to have a serious discussion or you can torpedo the whole thing.

MrStuffins

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

How did you come to the conclusion that anybody was saying this?

Well, when you say they are not "bonding" to Christians, what exactly do you mean?

PDN

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well, when you say they are not "bonding" to Christians, what exactly do you mean?

What he means is that those books gave the Israelites rules to live by in the wilderness and when they were moving into the Promised Land.

They are instructive to Christians to see how God dealt with the Israelites, but the New Testament is clear that those laws don't apply to anyone today.

MrStuffins

(sorry, i typed "Bonding", damn my huge fingers)

So, they don't apply now... but the New Testement does?

PDN

MrStuffins wrote: »

(sorry, i typed "Bonding", damn my huge fingers)

So, they don't apply now... but the New Testement does?

That's roughly it - without getting into a lot of technicalities.

We are Christians, which means we follow Christ (the guy the New Testament is all about).

MrStuffins

PDN wrote: »

That's roughly it - without getting into a lot of technicalities.

We are Christians, which means we follow Christ (the guy the New Testament is all about).

Yeah i get that...... but if this is the case, why isn't the Christian Bible just The New Testamnet, of the entire Bible minus the first 5 books?

I was raised a Christian and i don't know about this

Fanny Cradock

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well, when you say they are not "bonding" to Christians, what exactly do you mean?

I said binding, not bonding.

It's quite a complex issue. Some OT laws are not binding to Christians, while others are enforced by the NT. Even when we state that something isn't binding we aren't therefore saying that there isn't some intrinsic worth to be gained by understanding these laws. There is! For example, Christians do not hold to the sacrificial laws but we understand that these were always pointing towards Jesus.

I see many of the laws that given in the first books of the Bible as a framework for nation building. Again, these aren't necessarily God's moral ideals. They are situational laws.

MrStuffins

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I said binding, not bonding.

It's quite a complex issue. Some OT laws are not binding to Christians, while others are enforced by the NT. Even when we state that something isn't binding we aren't therefore saying that there isn't some intrinsic worth to be gained by understanding these laws. There is! For example, Christians do not hold to the sacrificial laws but we understand that these were always pointing towards Jesus.

I see many of the laws that given in the first books of the Bible as a framework for nation building. Again, these aren't necessarily God's moral ideals. They are situational laws.

MrStuffins wrote: »

(sorry, i typed "Bonding", damn my huge fingers)

.

PDN

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah i get that...... but if this is the case, why isn't the Christian Bible just The New Testamnet, of the entire Bible minus the first 5 books?

I was raised a Christian and i don't know about this

Because, as mentioned several times already, the OT gives us the bigger picture. We learn from seeing what God did in the past, and how Jesus fulfilled loads of Old Testament prophecies.

Fanny Cradock

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah i get that...... but if this is the case, why isn't the Christian Bible just The New Testamnet, of the entire Bible minus the first 5 books?

I was raised a Christian and i don't know about this

Because Christianity emerged out of Judaism - meaning that everybody from Jesus to Paul were observant Jews. Christianity doesn't make sense unless we try to understand the wonderfully complex and sometimes tawdry story of Israel - which necessitates understanding the story of the OT.

If you are setting out to write a history of the Thrilla in Manilla (or whatever sporting event you choose) you would have to include the back story to set the context - the countless hours in the gym training, the previous fights and all that animosity. In other words, show how previous events informed and directed the course of history - the fact that these two guys met again.

Does that make any sense to you?

MrStuffins

Yes, that makes perfect sense, thank you!