I'm appalled by the state of broadband affairs in Ireland - My Story

7aurelius

My Problem
=========
Current situation: I had Vodafone Broadband (formerly BT). I enjoyed a good service with a few router reboots over three years. I live in Athlone close to the town centre.

I recently moved (renting not buying) to Monksland area - River Village (without doing any research which was a mistake on my part). Monksland is 3 miles from the town Centre.

I asked Vodafone to move my service to the new address. It takes about a week to do a line check (which I think is very slow for companies that are complaining about a recession. I think customer retention is key, and taking 5 days to do a line check is a recipe for me to move to another provider is a really long wait). Anyway, I waited.

Vodafone came back and said that I need Eircom to activate the line in the new house. I'd done this before so I thought it would be easy. I called Eircom and they said they would tie me into a 6 month contract before I was able to move my service back to Vodafone. I was appalled by this and decided to change tact.

I called UPC, who were very swift in lining up an engineer to come out to the house for the install...I was impressed. The engineer never showed. When I called them back, they said that UPC broadband was unavailable in my area, yet they were quick to ask for my bank details when I first called them..punks!!

What could I do at this stage. No one is raving about how good lastmile, Imagine or other cowboy ISPs are...so I had to go back to Eircom.

I called Eircom and asked for a landline and broadband. They gave me an attractive package, and signed me up. They informed me that they would first install the line, before installing broadband. I was content. I just needed to be online in the comfort of my home.

I got a text from Eircom that my line was installed successfully. I tested it, and I was happy. I knew broadband was only a few days away. I called Eircom to find out if they had proceeded with my broadband order and I got some terrible news. They said my line wasn't suitable for broadband. I asked them why they didn't point out this when I was making the order in the first place. There must have been other people trying to order BB in the area before so they should know this. I didn't get an answer. I asked them to cancel my line with immediate effect. They said I was already signed into a a 6 month contract for the line. I told them that I was well aware of the cooling-off period and not to play silly games with me. They agreed. They said they would mail me a cancellation letter and I would have to phone them once I received it in the post. I was fuming at this stage and asked them why I needed to call twice to cancel the phone line. I asked the customer service agent to liaise with his supervisor because this was unacceptable to me...the agent came back and said that he could close my account with full effect on the day.

My concerns (as a foreigner):
- Broadband penetration in Ireland is so low. Why? River Village in Monksland is a really built up area with shops and well over 100 households. If 30% of them had broadband at the minimum of €42 (best value Eircom bundle), that is an extra revenue of €15,180 a year from only 30 houses. Any person in business knows that every cent counts. It doesn't matter how costly it is to install/upgrade exchanges. Will Ireland ever get Fiber to the Home?? I'll be dead and gone by then. I was getting download speeds of 1.5MB in a "hotel" in Japan. I can only imagine what residential BB speed in Japan are.

- Why are these companies so dishonest? I need to call them twice to cancel my service..I guess they wanted my cooling off period to expire. Why sign me up when they know for a fact that there is no broadband service in the area?

Do I have to move house now just to enjoy online gaming, research at home, sitcom downloads???? I'm pissed off by these gobsh*tes.

Update: I called Digiweb to find out about their satellite broadband, and it costs €35 a month but the catch is there is a €589 setup/installation fee. I almost collapsed when I heard that. "No thank you kind sir", thats what I said and hang up. Rip-off Ireland at it's best.

watty

Since you ordered a Bundle they MUST refund all money as the line now doesn't do Broadband.

See http://irelandoffline.org/
and http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=682

Meanwhile non-Broadband is offered for €10 and marketed as Broadband and that's the way Government wants it.

We are all pretty upset.

jor el

7aurelius wrote: »

Do I have to move house now just to enjoy online gaming, research at home, sitcom downloads???? I'm pissed off by these gobsh*tes.

Pretty much, yes. No one is bringing broadband to anyone any more, you need to go to where it is available.

7aurelius wrote: »

Update: I called Digiweb to find out about their satellite broadband, and it costs €35 a month but the catch is there is a €589 setup/installation fee. I almost collapsed when I heard that. "No thank you kind sir", thats what I said and hang up. Rip-off Ireland at it's best.

Satellite Internet access (not broadband) is expensive in any country, not just Ireland. One-way services are cheaper, but practically useless. Two way is the only one worth getting, and is expensive for both kit and install.

watty

When I looked at Satellite Broadband in 2001 it was €10,000 setup.

It's quite cheap now
Look how much an unsubsidized 16G iPhone is.

DonJose

I can understand the frustration. I live up the road in Mullingar, I was renting a house up until last year when I bought a house in 300 meters away in a different estate. I could get 24mb broadband and UPC in the rental, yet when I moved 300 meters away I found the best broadband my line could handle was 3mb!!! The house I live in now is 3km from the exchange, why can't Eircom build a second exchange to service the other half of the town, the same applies to your problem in Athlone!!!

The estate where I live now doesn't have UPC even though the estate is wired for cable. It seems Eircom did a deal with the developer and installed coaxial cable in the estate which UPC can't access. WTF Eircom don't offer cable tv or cable broadband yet they own the cable network in my estate.

Sponge Bob

eircom is not in the business of installing exchanges or copper any more, Your copper belongs to the management company Don José so use your vote and take it over from that developer bum and then cut a deal with UPC. If they supply bb and tv you give them a 15 year "IRU" or lease on the cable including their maintenance of same.

DonJose

Sponge Bob, cheers for the reply. I've tried everything to get UPC into our estate, there is no management company, the estate was recently taken over by the county council so I got onto a local councillor who got onto the Legal & Enforcement Section of our county council and here was their replies.

"Spoke to Eircom. Eircom cable in place - provided to dev. Eircom own network as per contract with dev. UPC could use eircom cable to provide service. Eircom don't provide ducting and network use for free"

Then a week later they came back with the following,

"I am not sure what more I can advise on this matter. There is a cable laid by Eircom (see attached layout drawing received from eircom) but it is in their control and if UPC wish to use this they must deal with eircom or obtain a road opening license and lay a duct themselves. We do not take these ducts in charge."

Sponge Bob

DonJose wrote: »

Sponge Bob, cheers for the reply. I've tried everything to get UPC into our estate, there is no management company, the estate was recently taken over by the county council so I got onto a local councillor who got onto the Legal & Enforcement Section of our county council and here was their replies.

"Spoke to Eircom. Eircom cable in place - provided to dev. Eircom own network as per contract with dev. UPC could use eircom cable to provide service. Eircom don't provide ducting and network use for free"
ith eircom or obtain a road opening license and lay a duct themselves
Then a week later they came back with the following,

"I am not sure what more I can advise on this matter. There is a cable laid by Eircom (see attached layout drawing received from eircom) but it is in their control and if UPC wish to use this they must deal w. We do not take these ducts in charge."

Jeeez

First of all UPC do not use eircom cable at all, eircom cable is much too thin for their service.

Secondly is the ducting capable of taking UPC cable as WELL as eircom cable, if not UPC have to tack cable along the soffits and fascias like they normally do in housing estates with semis.

In that case UPC needs a wayleave form each house and you could personally organise that even if a lot of the houses are empty because the developer can give you those wayleaves...especially if you tell him nobody will buy the houses without UPC cable installed

A resident sorting the wayleave forms for UPC makes life so much easier. It is all or nothing though. You need to get every house signed up or UPC will not be interested.

Finally, Westmeath council are evidently gobsh1tes giving an answer like that

DonJose

Sponge Bob wrote: »

First of all UPC do not use eircom cable at all, eircom cable is much too thin for their service.

I understand that about the Eircom cable nto being suitable for cable bb/tv, however there is coaxial cable coming into my house. From the answers given by the county council it seems Eircom laid down the coaxial cable network in our estate.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Secondly is the ducting capable of taking UPC cable as WELL as eircom cable, if not UPC have to tack cable along the soffits and fascias like they normally do in housing estates with semis.

In that case UPC needs a wayleave form each house and you could personally organise that even if a lot of the houses are empty because the developer can give you those wayleaves...especially if you tell him nobody will buy the houses without UPC cable installed

A resident sorting the wayleave forms for UPC makes life so much easier. It is all or nothing though. You need to get every house signed up or UPC will not be interested.

Finally, Westmeath council are evidently gobsh1tes giving an answer like that

All the wiring in our estate is underground so I can't see some of the residents agreeing to this :mad: The coaxial cable needed for cable tv/broadband is already in place, its just a matter of UPC and Eircom coming to an agreement :mad:

Sponge Bob

DonJose wrote: »

I understand that about the Eircom cable nto being suitable for cable bb/tv, however there is coaxial cable coming into my house. From the answers given by the county council it seems Eircom laid down the coaxial cable network in our estate.

Nahhh, eircom laying coax ???? Never heard of that happening. The developer laid it.

Where does the co ax go from your house and are you on a co ax ring or on a 'tail' off a ring ??? Where are the junction boxes for the ring , on the street perhaps next to your duct ??

The coaxial cable needed for cable tv/broadband is already in place, its just a matter of UPC and Eircom coming to an agreement :mad:

The duct/co ax does not belong to eircom, simples. It belonged to the developer until the estate was taken in charge as did the road and footpaths etc and now arguably belongs to the council outside and to you inside the front wall. eircom bring a cable to the entrance of the estate , that is unquestionably theirs. The developer installed all the cables on the estate and 'owned' them until the take in charge.

Ducting never transfers to eircom, they get a squatters right to it after c.14 years as do UPC with cable hung along soffits in the same time period. This is in the form of a permanent wayleave that cannot be extinguished. Unless eircom have had sole use of these ducts for 14 years then the issue does not arise. Thereafter they have an exclusive wayleave by virtue of it not being challenged not because of any formal process.

UPC would still need a written wayleave from each householder confirming they have access to this duct inside the front walls but other than that they can easily take it over.

A residents association can 'invite' UPC to engage and can help with the wayleave paperwork by going door to door and mapping the wayleaves properly. Once UPC realise there is no issue they could play ball...unless the co-ax is cack that is

Once the paperwork is in place UPC could easily offer their service. The council will do nothing to interfere with them on the street outside.

(edit) contact Crossan cable in Longford and clarify this point, they are independent but come across this situation all the time

http://www.crossan.ie/cable/broadband.html

DonJose

Sponge Bob thanks for your replies, much appreciated. I've been in contact with UPC numberous times, they even sent out an engineer who reported back, "Unfortunately there is no access laid on for us through ducting, so at this point it is unlikely we can provide a broadband service in your estate." I've shot off an email to the head of network build at UPC, so hopefully I can get more information from him.

Sponge Bob

DonJose wrote: »

" I've shot off an email to the head of network build at UPC, so hopefully I can get more information from him.

PM me that information ...may come in handy

You should be seen to 'represent' someone, an ad hoc sub committee of the residents association should be set up to deal with this specific issue. Sometimes a route can be sorted by discreetly trunking across back walls from other enabled estates (if everybody signs the correct wayleaves that is)

After all, it will up the value of everyones property in these hard times

Freddie59

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The duct/co ax does not belong to eircom, simples. It belonged to the developer until the estate was taken in charge as did the road and footpaths etc and now arguably belongs to the council outside and to you inside the front wall. eircom bring a cable to the entrance of the estate , that is unquestionably theirs. The developer installed all the cables on the estate and 'owned' them until the take in charge.

Seems unlikely. AFAIK Eircom supply all of the ducting, pay the developer to lay it, and then own the infrastructure. I think UPC are the same.

Sponge Bob

Yeah but eircom don't lay co ax, if the co ax and telephone share the same duct ....why??

There is a post 2007 arrangement where a formal agreement may exist between eircom and a developer on ducting but an estate taken in charge would have been built over 3 years ago and predates this arrangement.

DonJose

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yeah but eircom don't lay co ax, if the co ax and telephone share the same duct ....why??

There is a post 2007 arrangement where a formal agreement may exist between eircom and a developer on ducting but an estate taken in charge would have been built over 3 years ago and predates this arrangement.

Could you provide more information regarding this 2007 arrangment thing, the estate I live in is roughly 8 years old.

Sponge Bob

DonJose wrote: »

Could you provide more information regarding this 2007 arrangment thing, the estate I live in is roughly 8 years old.

The [url=http://business.eircom.net/html/DLO.pdf
]2007 arrangement[/url] gives eircom a written right to use the ducting in return for their 'advice' during construction.

Nowhere does it say that eircom supply anything except advice in return for access from day one. I suspect it gives eircom a Section 72 'burden' sort of interest or wayleave ab initio rather than later. I don't know the delicacies involved.

Pre 2007 is free for all save where an exclusive deal with a provider like Smart or Magnet was in place. Eventually eircom get their wayleave by being in the duct providing a service and own it thereafter if nobody else can show they used it...squatters rights apply to eircom too you know and to UPC too

DonJose

Spongebob, I tried to reply to your last PM but got the following, "Sponge Bob has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Moonbeam

No idea where abouts you are but I wouldn't want to give upc money in the same situation.
We also had a situation with upc.
We have Digiweb Metro now and it is excellent.
I have experience with Last Mile,Imagine and Satellite who you also mention,Last mile don't provide a bad service,imagine fixed wireless products are good and Satellite is a night mare.

DonJose

Moonbeam wrote: »

No idea where abouts you are but I wouldn't want to give upc money in the same situation.
We also had a situation with upc.
We have Digiweb Metro now and it is excellent.
I have experience with Last Mile,Imagine and Satellite who you also mention,Last mile don't provide a bad service,imagine fixed wireless products are good and Satellite is a night mare.

I'm in Mullingar, roughly 3km from the eircom exchange and the fastest internet we can receive is 3mbs, I work from home selling software online so a fast internet connection is a must especially when I have to upload 400mb files.

Moonbeam

Maybe talk to Airspeed and see if they can do anything for you.
Satellite will be useless for uploading.

Neuro

Just rang to see if UPC do BB to River Village yet, and they say that they do not! Why is it that they can provide digital TV, but not BB - surely all that is needed is some additional kit as the cable is already there, or is this a simplistic assumption on my part?

Sponge Bob

You are right. They may get around to it by 2014 or so.

jor el

Neuro wrote: »

Just rang to see if UPC do BB to River Village yet, and they say that they do not! Why is it that they can provide digital TV, but not BB - surely all that is needed is some additional kit as the cable is already there, or is this a simplistic assumption on my part?

There are plenty of current UPC threads on going, without the need to drag up a 9 month old thread. Availability is being discussed in many of them.