closest to 1 joule

mr lee

what aeg available in ireland is closest to the 1 joule limit(not over the limit obviously),what airsoft bb pistols is considered the best in terms of build quality,gas effiecnecy and range.

evilrobotshane

Most AEGs in Ireland come from places that aren't restricted by the One Joule Rule, so fire hotter than that and have to be downgraded for us. Therefore, it's down to the individual downgrade job how fine it's cutting it. Probably the best answer then is the G&G F2000, because it's got a handy adjusting screw to tune the power output so you can dial it in to right below the Joule, but that doesn't make any appreciable difference so doesn't matter. The answer is basically potentially all of them (apart from Tokyo Marui).

For gas efficiency you'd be looking at a non-blowback pistol. I don't know much on the topic, but the Tokyo Marui Mk23 SOCOM is well regarded.

Firekitten

I wish people would stop beliving that the closer one is to the 1j limit, the furder ye slingbacker will shoot...

For clarity.

Speed of the BB plays a secondary role to barrel length, tightness and BB weight in range and accuracy of airsoft toys.


Another 'what gun am best?' topic by any other name.


The honest answer?

None.

mr lee

Firekitten wrote: »

I wish people would stop beliving that the closer one is to the 1j limit, the furder ye slingbacker will shoot...

For clarity.

Speed of the BB plays a secondary role to barrel length, tightness and BB weight in range and accuracy of airsoft toys.


Another 'what gun am best?' topic by any other name.


The honest answer?

None.

im new to the sport so please excuse my ignorance,if i wanted to know "what gun am best" i would have asked what gun is best,i asked a specific question,

NakedDex

To be honest, you don't want to go too close to the 1J limit. Varying atmospheric pressure will become a factor if you're right on the nose of .999J.
Depending on where you play, and the days weather, your AEG might gain or lose as much as 5% energy. If you're right on the limit, that gain will render your AEG unsuitable for play on the site.

Most AEG's, with a good downgrade or that are sub-1J as stock, will give consistent performance at energies between .85J and .95J. Any AEG doing that, coupled with a good quality hop unit and tightbore barrel, will give excellent performance. Those are the truly important parts when it comes to accuracy and range.

SgtBob

NakedDex wrote: »

To be honest, you don't want to go too close to the 1J limit. Varying atmospheric pressure will become a factor if you're right on the nose of .999J.
Depending on where you play, and the days weather, your AEG might gain or lose as much as 5% energy. If you're right on the limit, that gain will render your AEG unsuitable for play on the site.

Most AEG's, with a good downgrade or that are sub-1J as stock, will give consistent performance at energies between .85J and .95J. Any AEG doing that, coupled with a good quality hop unit and tightbore barrel, will give excellent performance. Those are the truly important parts when it comes to accuracy and range.

Was gonna say the same thing myself. Much more explanatory answer than firekittens.

Lemming

SgtBob wrote: »

Was gonna say the same thing myself. Much more explanatory answer than firekittens.

In your attempt to be stroppy, you've completely missed the technical points she raised.

Mr lee, as you may have gathered, chasing that elusive "sweet spot" 328fps gun is a bit of a wasted effort since

1. Many guns for import into Ireland are firing above 328 and therefore need downgraded first, meaning it's down to the tech on the day
2. Variances in air pressure/humidity/heat/etc., will have an affect on the power output of your AEG. Case in point, my (then) newly purchased VFC Scar when tested at home was firing around 320fps but when taken to a site for a weekend event was chrono'ing 345fps and mine wasn't the only AEG to have crazy readings that weekend).
3. As Bob so magnificently missed, the setup of your AEG regarding hop-up, barrel length, barrel width, and the weight of your BB will have a significantly more notable impact on range and accuracy than an extra 10fps.

SgtBob

Lemming wrote: »

In your attempt to be stroppy, you've completely missed the technical points she raised.

Mr lee, as you may have gathered, chasing that elusive "sweet spot" 328fps gun is a bit of a wasted effort since

1. Many guns for import into Ireland are firing above 328 and therefore need downgraded first, meaning it's down to the tech on the day
2. Variances in air pressure/humidity/heat/etc., will have an affect on the power output of your AEG. Case in point, my (then) newly purchased VFC Scar when tested at home was firing around 320fps but when taken to a site for a weekend event was chrono'ing 345fps and mine wasn't the only AEG to have crazy readings that weekend).
3. As Bob so magnificently missed, the setup of your AEG regarding hop-up, barrel length, barrel width, and the weight of your BB will have a significantly more notable impact on range and accuracy than an extra 10fps.

I was not attempting to be stroppy. The OP was asking a basic question, I was simply pointing out that the extra large, bold font, and the sarcastic response came off as rude. The guy only came here to ask for advice from more experienced airsofters.

I am also well aware of the points she made.

Firekitten

Basic question gets a basic answer.

Im sorry if it comes off as rude, but im afraid its a million times a week question/topic, and nobody ever A, searches, or B, seems to understand the answers given. Repeatedly.

thermo

Firekitten wrote: »

Im sorry if it comes off as rude, but im afraid its a million times a week question/topic, and nobody ever A, searches, or B, seems to understand the answers given. Repeatedly.

if thats how you feel, avoid the "post reply" button.

touge_drift

i do worry about my aeg sometimes.. as it chrono's in the 320-323 range and being honest im not sure if another sites chrono will take a higher reading leaving me screwed for the days gaming.

Shiva

touge_drift wrote: »

i do worry about my aeg sometimes.. as it chrono's in the 320-323 range and being honest im not sure if another sites chrono will take a higher reading leaving me screwed for the days gaming.

I've seen that happen loads of times. Its usually best, if you're upgrading (or downgrading !) to aim for 310-315. A good hopup and tightbore will MORE than compensate for any perceived loss of FPS.

Masada once built a stubby killer M4 for use in the Warehouse, and deliberately tuned it to 230-240 FPS because it would be use din close quarters. I witnessed him outrange a VFC Scar clocking 320 FPS at HRTA by a country mile because he tuned the hell out of it without raising the FPS

Another time, I had a customer buying a rifle insist we chrono all 8 of the ones we had in stock so he could get the one nearest to 328. All except one of them were about 300-310, but he opted for the one outputting 320, give or take a few FPS - and then came back with a red face when it chronoed 330 on a hot day and he was told he couldn't use it.

tudenham10

Very true, it is all too easy to get caught up in the whole fps thing, I normally act as the the chrono (insert insult here) guy at our site and to be honest, range and performance is much more about your setup, than the power of the spring.
Even though a lot of people on here will slag off TM for their excessive cost, some stock Marui's firing at approx 280 fps (with a .20) will out range an un-upgraded other brand at a much higher fps.

NakedDex

If you know what you're looking at, you can have your pint-size sub outrange a bolt action rifle and out-gun a support gun.

Airsoft guns are a system. Boosting the hell out of one section doesn't make one bit of difference without the parts to actually exploit that boost. For example, there's no point in putting in an 11.1V battery and a high speed motor, without upgrading from nylon bushings, to bearings. Tightbores make a difference, but they don't reach full potential without a good hop.

A system is only as good as it's weakest part, and that weakest part is only power if the gun has a fault. Most AEG's that come in to this country are factory assembled with hops for higher energy limits than ours, so the rubbers are harder. For sub-1J systems, a softer rubber is needed to impart proper spin on the slower projectile.

Changing this one tiny piece of rubber, even on a stock 6.07mm barrel, makes an enormous difference to range and accuracy. I've seen a Guarder clear hop rubber add 25% to a rifles range on it's own. Coupled with a tightbore, that increased to about 35%. The accuracy difference, I didn't calculate, but did test. The AEG went from reliably hitting a man sized target at 30 yards, to a fist-sized target at the same range.
This was in an ACM P90, nothing fancy. It cost €30 for the barrel (Madbull Black Python), and €10 for the hop rubber (Guarder Clear). It chrono'ed at 300fps, +/-5fps.

And it's still one of my favourite, and highest performing AEG's in my collection. Those that know me, will know that it's no small, or cheap, collection either.



The "fps race" in airsoft is much like the "megapixel race" in digital cameras. All that extra power isn't worth a damn unless you have the right parts to exploit it. In cameras, it's the lens. In airsoft, it's (chiefly) the hop/barrel.

Firekitten

Dex: you're absolutely right. Had an AK at senny that was out ranging 350 guns, at 310, happily, because of its hop and barrel, the sweet spot combination will do far more for ones range and accuracy than ramping up the fps. In fact a higher fps with a less accurate gun can cause deviation and further inaccuracy by further destabalising the round. (At least that's the logic my sleepy brain tells me)

Blazer

Same for the sniper rifle I had..a CA M24 with systema buckling, PDI hop up and KM tightbore barrel.
It only fired at 280-290fps but it easily outranged every other AEG out there including my M4 which I discovered was actually firing at 350fps (now downgraded )

mr lee

cheers for d info guys,im a bit more clued up now

Firekitten

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Same for the sniper rifle I had..a CA M24 with systema buckling, PDI hop up and KM tightbore barrel.
It only fired at 280-290fps but it easily outranged every other AEG out there including my M4 which I discovered was actually firing at 350fps (now downgraded )

my 270 vsr10 outranged 350 aegs, by 20m.... Stock... if anything is a clear indicator of barel and hop vs fps that is.... granted it took its sweet time to arrive, but it did!

Jimkil

This is timely as this has being my mind this week. Barrel lenght hopups etc are great but at 328 the BB is flying so slow the target can dance like the Matrix around it. Most guns shipped into this country are built to achieve a greater fps than we use so we are forced to downgrade to an unrealistic level and then if you hit a target 120ft away the impact would be so slight it doesn't know its being hit. Wonderful distances can be achieved provided theres no wind or its sunny or raining etc. Nothing better than packing a punch. Its very hard to keep a gun just under 328fps. Its easy to get 270 but u can spit faster than that so whats the point and then with only slight mods it will shoot up into the 345's and we haven't even put a tight bore in yet or allowed +/-5% for weather. Engagement distances are so close at the current level it takes all the fun out of the game and 328 doesn't even bring snipers into the mix. So i say we should lobby to have the limit at 350min which would allow some decent mods to the gearbox, help stop the butchering of new guns and then leave some room for the tight bores etc.
Rant over.

Leftyflip

Funy I can put a tightbore into a gun firing 310 and there is feck all difference between 310 and 328...:rolleyes:

Witcher

Jimkil wrote: »

So i say we should lobby to have the limit at 350min which would allow some decent mods to the gearbox, help stop the butchering of new guns and then leave some room for the tight bores etc.
Rant over.

As I said in another thread a while ago, we should be happy we cemented the existence of airsoft in this country at all. Even 1J airsoft is better than no airsoft at all which was a prospect for a while here. Now is not the time to go to the DOJ and say "We demand a higher limit".

We should first of all show our willingness to adhere to the 1J law completely and show it can be enforced and policed among all airsofters then maybe put forward a motion for a limit increse. But now is not the time.

NakedDex

Jimkil wrote: »

Its very hard to keep a gun just under 328fps. Its easy to get 270 but u can spit faster than that so whats the point and then with only slight mods it will shoot up into the 345's and we haven't even put a tight bore in yet or allowed +/-5% for weather

Because it's the law?

Here's a couple of tiny (read: inconceiveably huge) flaws in your argument:

1) It's not very hard to keep a device under 328fps w/ .2g at all. It's exceptionally simple actually. You simply fit a sub-1J spring. There's not a great deal more to it than that.

2) If you want to teeter your device on the edge of the 1J limit, then disqualifying that gun from use for a days events due to atmospheric pressure is something you just have to expect. If you have a problem with that, buy something with quick-adjust springs, like the G&G F2000 (G2010).

3) Without getting into the non-linear deceleration of a spherical projectile over extended range through the air (disregarding environmental variables), from a starting speed of "x < 328fps" w/ .2g to standstill, do you honestly and genuninely think 22fps extra is going to give you such a huge advantage in speed that you're going to be able to hit your targets more effectively?
Here's a tip; Lead your target.

4) It's not as though this is a major disadvantage, more a consequence of the nature of the game. You don't suffer any particular disadvantage over someone else due to it's occurance, as the same situation would repeat if they were to fire at you.

5) Snipers do rather well with the limit as it stands. I actually think it stands to them a lot more to learn effective use of their bolt action rifles at the lower powers since it forces them into a role more stealth and recon based. This doesn't suit everyone, and such people tend to end up with scoped M16's and M14's etc, being more marksman than sniper.
Firekitten should be able to elaborate on this area further than I, but my opinion would be that those who learn the craft (and it is a craft, borderline dark art), tend to be far more effective when they go abroad to the larger event games, like Sennybridge and Berget, than those who picked up "am 1337 500fps sniporz" and know little about concealment. That's being an opinion, of course, and I'd defer to Firekittens experience in that area.



While the "We demand higher limits" screaming doesn't surprise me anymore, it still saddens me. People are really never happy, are they?

Inari

To put it simply, the limit is 328 - meaning that it can NOT go over, as if it does it's illegal. As such there is not +/- 5% or any percentage. The aim for any airsoft device is closer to 300 (or 310) fps - that way it shouldn't be over no matter what the weather/conditions.

Airsoft works because of the honour code, not because you have to feel a punch in your ribs to know you're hit. If you think it's a possibility you've been hit, you have. So up your ass to safe zone/respawn. This system works. It's cheated, but I'd rank it higher than any other format.

As for snipers...it's a choice. You accept that you're taking on quite a few disadvantages for very minimal advantages. Majority of people who make the choice do so for fun, and therefore usually do not mind the 1j limit.

Firekitten

Minor point that destroys the 'these guns are designed to shoot higher fps!' arguments...


Rubbish. Airsoft guns, were invented in Japan. Where the sport began. And japan has ALWAYS had a strict 1j limit. So actually... the guns are DESIGNED to work at 328fps. Other countries add reinforced parts, to upgrade PAST 1j. Some guns ship with reinforced parts for this purpose, but that makes NO difference to the fact its design optimum is 1j.

Yes, you can shoot further with higher fps, but its no real difference when everyone is at the same fps. Plus, dont feel it at 120ft? you kidding? that's like.... 40m? Ive never had anyone not feel a hit at that short a range.