Fianna Fail Nua.RIP Brian??

dunsandin

It strikes me tonight, that the smoke signals floating in the ether would appear that more ruthless minds than our own have siezed upon a -probably correct and certainly wise-idea that Brian Cowen is to become the sacrificial goat. By distancing the party from Cowen, it would be possible to pin a lot of our current woes around his kneck - "It was Cowen, as Finance tsar, who let this happen" == "it was Cowen who led us unsullied virgins into the disasterous situation we are in". If I were a leading light in the Fiannq Fail national executive, I would sieze upon this opportunity to cleanse the party with a public "execution" of Cowen, the promotion of the (Unfathomably)popular Lenihan as leader in waiting, and the wholesale distancing from the old, percieved as tainted, guard of Cowen and Ahern.

I may be premature in this, but I think It is what may well be happening. Fianna Fail Nua will ride out of Galway to save us from economic meltdown yet!! More Ya. Anybody care to discuss my theory?? I think It is an Al Capone situation, we cant get him for his major screw ups, so we will knife him for a minor one. Cynical, Yes. Popularist, Yes. Wise, probably, FF can distance itself, villify, and unite with the people in its damnation of the bad policies of "them", you have to admire the ruthless efficency of the manouever.

Ulysses Gaze

Cowen may be knifed in the back and replaced but FF NUA? With the dearth of talent on the Front bench and non-entities like Dara Calleary being heralded as the future of the party?

Plus FF will never escape the Ahern past as long as the likes of Frank Fahey and Cooper-Flynn are still in the party.

dunsandin

You are wrong. FF will successfully re-position itself as the all new, cleansing party, cutting away the old, and leading us into a brighter future, The opposition are too weak and disjointed, and frankly unelectable. The people are apathetic and have short memories and too many are dyed in the wool FF. The status quo will prevail. if slightly modied. IMOHO:D

This is purely my theory, and may well be a mile wide, but I doubt it. The future will tell. My money, for what its worth, is on Lenihan. Lord help us!! FF are also experts at the long game, they have a wealth of very talented political manouverers, many of whom are not front benchers, nor even household names, but they play to win, and they have the ability to take a very long term view when it comes to the party, but apparently not when it comes to the good of the country as a whole. A play like this will allow the party to survive, perhaps not at the next election, but at the next, and then the next.............. big money at stake, big plays required. No man is more important than the survival of the party.

Liam Byrne

dunsandin wrote: »

You are wrong. FF will successfully re-position itself as the all new, cleansing party, cutting away the old, and leading us into a brighter future

I wish I could believe that, but they have shown no enthusiasm for such a reform to date, voting excusing and confidence in many scheisters and con-men, and adopting con-men evicted from other parties with open arms.

If I wake up tomorrow and hear that FF have actually cleansed their ranks, I'll assume that I died in my sleep.

It ain't gonna happen.

MrDarcy

I was actually going to start a thread on this very topic! Something is not right here, when you see Brian Cowen coming on the news and apologising for something, I've little doubt that this apology is a precursor to some much wider agenda that will be playing out over the next 24-48 hours...

Yesterday he reckoned that he had absolutely nothing to apologise for, the whole party was on the attack spinning and rallying around him, yet today, despite the whole story really losing it's inertia, he comes out today and gives a heart rendering apology for something that yesterday was a new low in Irish politics, namely a slur on him?!?!?!?

There is definitely something going down here internally within the government and my money says it isn't a bad case of the DT's... I'd say the Green's are ready to pull the rug out from Cowen, there hasn't been as much as a Tweet out of Dan Boyle since this story broke, that in itself is remarkable.

baldbear

I found it very strange the way he came out and apologised and also the way Coveny apologised. I wonder did sexy Enda get on to him.

Maybe joe Duffy's pole vote had FF panicking and he was pushed into apologising.

If Lenihan wasn't ill then Cowen would be long gone. He reminds of Gordan Browne, not good with people or the media and fairly gruff.

Liam Byrne

baldbear wrote: »

[Cowen] reminds of Gordan Browne, not good with people or the media and fairly gruff.

Personally, I couldn't care less how he was with people or the media if he could do his job. Unfortunately - for us - he can't do his current one and couldn't do his previous one either.

MrDarcy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Personally, I couldn't care less how he was with people or the media if he could do his job. Unfortunately - for us - he can't do his current one and couldn't do his previous one either.

+1, I couldn't care if he moved in under the Guinness tap, if we saw some leadership and execution of some sort of a credible economic plan. The figures regrettably don't lie and no matter what optical construction he or his colleagues try to put on things, the place is an absolute mess. The more he talk's shyte about "holding the nerve", and "we are turning the corner", the more scared people are becoming because know this is not the truth, especially anyone running a small business, there is no hope out there, I've friends in retail, logistics & transport, businesses that are not related to property in any way at all and they have never seen the likes of what is going on now in the economy or anything even remotely close to it for that matter.

spurious

dunsandin wrote: »

The people are apathetic and have short memories

Sums the Irish electorate up really.
We get exactly what we deserve.

danbohan

MrDarcy wrote: »

+1, I couldn't care if he moved in under the Guinness tap, if we saw some leadership and execution of some sort of a credible economic plan. The figures regrettably don't lie and no matter what optical construction he or his colleagues try to put on things, the place is an absolute mess. The more he talk's shyte about "holding the nerve", and "we are turning the corner", the more scared people are becoming because know this is not the truth, especially anyone running a small business, there is no hope out there, I've friends in retail, logistics & transport, businesses that are not related to property in any way at all and they have never seen the likes of what is going on now in the economy or anything even remotely close to it for that matter.

yes all of the above is true , we get rid cowen / finna fail today will things be any better . this place is fjuked for a considerble period of time , perhaps the only solution is as Constantin Gurdgiev wrote this morninng is have IMF/EU come in sort it out .http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/

Laminations

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Cowen may be knifed in the back and replaced but FF NUA? With the dearth of talent on the Front bench and non-entities like Dara Calleary being heralded as the future of the party?

Plus FF will never escape the Ahern past as long as the likes of Frank Fahey and Cooper-Flynn are still in the party.

....and Ahern

MrDarcy

danbohan wrote: »

yes all of the above is true , we get rid cowen / finna fail today will things be any better . this place is fjuked for a considerble period of time , perhaps the only solution is as Constantin Gurdgiev wrote this morninng is have IMF/EU come in sort it out .http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/

But the one good thing that will come out of all of this is that by Jesus we are being taught some lesson here, and if we have the humility to learn from it and the courage to try doing things a bit differently, we could prosper and grow in the future.

There is no lazy way for ordinary people to create wealth, and that was the first big mistake that was made here I reckon. This notion of us all driving BMW's and having property portfolio's and making our millions off the back of our foreign national tenants who came here to live and had to rent our houses and apartments, that myth has been busted for the revolting, lazy, "thick as f*ck Paddy and aren't we all just great", pathethic woodenheaded strategy that it always was. That strategy how has us all on the hook.

If you want to have a better standard of living in a capitalist system, then my experience has been that you have to have an exceptional idea, a strong work ethic, enormous drive and ability, especially in a country of begrudgers and knockers and you have to be prepared to put in 12-16 hour days.

Just speaking for myself, my personal decision to be self employed came at an exceptionally high price, I'm at an age where I probably should be married and have kids, I had to forego these things because I found that self employment was the only option for me because I couldn't keep myself in a PAYE job in a country with such an utterly abysmal management competency. I've worked for some of the most backward sh*tholes that you could find yourself employed in in this country and I have to say we have a lot to learn about running businesses, retaining staff, leading and motivating staff, BEING FAIR and being ethical in business...

Liam Byrne

baldbear wrote: »

I found it very strange the way he came out and apologised and also the way Coveny apologised.

Coveney didn't apologise.

danbohan

MrDarcy wrote: »

But the one good thing that will come out of all of this is that by Jesus we are being taught some lesson here, and if we have the humility to learn from it and the courage to try doing things a bit differently, we could prosper and grow in the future.

There is no lazy way for ordinary people to create wealth, and that was the first big mistake that was made here I reckon. This notion of us all driving BMW's and having property portfolio's and making our millions off the back of our foreign national tenants who came here to live and had to rent our houses and apartments, that myth has been busted for the revolting, lazy, "thick as f*ck Paddy and we all just great", pathethic woodenheaded strategy that it always was. That strategy how has us all on the hook.

If you want to have a better standard of living in a capitalist system, then my experience has been that you have to have an exceptional idea, a strong work ethic, enormous drive and ability, especially in a country of begrudgers and knockers and you have to be prepared to put in 12-16 hour days.

Just speaking for myself, my personal decision to be self employed came at an exceptionally high price, I'm at an age where I probably should be married and have kids, I had to forego these things because I found that self employment was the only option for me because I couldn't keep myself in a PAYE job in a country with such an utterly abysmal management competency. I've worked for some of the most backward sh*tholes that you could find yourself employed in in this country and I have to say we have a lot to learn about running businesses, retaining staff, leading and motivating staff, BEING FAIR and being ethical in business...

i have no doubt we will come out of this a better and a lot wiser people , we behaved like first time lotto winners , unfortunaley i dont see much evidence of ''humility'' you speak of yet . when irish people get beyond the blame game then and only then as a country can we start to make progress .
you know what your saying now about management etc in this country i would have said 25 years ago before i went USA , hopefully this tidal wave will wash away the deadwood and allow this country to rebuild as a modern economy with a new political and buisness thinking at its core .
good luck with your endevors

Nijmegen

I don't think so, I think there would be more smoke coming from D2 if there was a heave in process.

the_dark_side

who cares? r.i.p. FF imho

BeeDI

Bring back Albert, the one page Taoiseach:)

Tora Bora

Well, according to Sam Smyth in today's Indo, the soldiers of destiny could have a new leader, who doesn't eat a morning fry:rolleyes:
FFS, is that the type of fella, we could have as taoiseach in the future:cool:


Martin's strong action puts him in pole position for leadership


Ambitions
Mr Martin has never hidden his long-term ambitions to lead Fianna Fail and the raging controversy has highlighted the stark contrast between him and Mr Cowen.
Mr Martin is as close to being the exact polar opposite of Brian Cowen as anyone inside or outside Fianna Fail.
Breakfasting on muesli and yogurt while his party colleagues tuck into bacon, sausage and egg, the Foreign Affairs Minister is a nappy-changing New Man.
A Rubicon was crossed last night when Mr Cowen felt he had no choice but to publicly apologise for his performance in an interview.
Everything Mr Cowen does from now on will be scrutinised and angry criticism will morph into ridicule.
And when political leaders become punchlines in stand-up comedians' jokes, their authority goes and they lose the respect of the public and their peers.
This Gargle-Gate scandal has further undermined the most unpopular government and Taoiseach in the history of opinion polling.
But there will not be another leader of Fianna Fail before a general election, according to the most senior figures in the party.
As one senior government minister put it: "Brian Cowen replaced Bertie Ahern without an election. It just could not be done again."
Fianna Fail's leaders-in-waiting will have to fight an election before they can campaign for the prize.
But how many of them will be left standing after the votes are counted?

SkepticOne

Cowen's job is to be in power when Fianna Fail loses the next election so that he can be blamed. Although it may not have been consciously acknowledged by those who put him in power I think it has always been Cowen's job to take the poisoned chalice left by Bertie. You won't see any moves by Martin or anyone else while Fianna Fail is in power.

the_dark_side

Martin should explain to the Irish taxpayer why he gave €166 million to Uganda in aid 3 months ago, after they spent $340 million on fighter jets, before he considers the FF leadership role

orourkeda

dunsandin wrote: »

It strikes me tonight, that the smoke signals floating in the ether would appear that more ruthless minds than our own have siezed upon a -probably correct and certainly wise-idea that Brian Cowen is to become the sacrificial goat. By distancing the party from Cowen, it would be possible to pin a lot of our current woes around his kneck - "It was Cowen, as Finance tsar, who let this happen" == "it was Cowen who led us unsullied virgins into the disasterous situation we are in". If I were a leading light in the Fiannq Fail national executive, I would sieze upon this opportunity to cleanse the party with a public "execution" of Cowen, the promotion of the (Unfathomably)popular Lenihan as leader in waiting, and the wholesale distancing from the old, percieved as tainted, guard of Cowen and Ahern.

I may be premature in this, but I think It is what may well be happening. Fianna Fail Nua will ride out of Galway to save us from economic meltdown yet!! More Ya. Anybody care to discuss my theory?? I think It is an Al Capone situation, we cant get him for his major screw ups, so we will knife him for a minor one. Cynical, Yes. Popularist, Yes. Wise, probably, FF can distance itself, villify, and unite with the people in its damnation of the bad policies of "them", you have to admire the ruthless efficency of the manouever.

Or will FF TD'S look at how the FG leadership heave backfired so spectacularly and just come to the conclusion that what they have they hold for as long as possible.

dunsandin

It appears that the die is indeed cast for Cowen, but the lack of any clear successor with the balls to step up and stick the knife in and finish off his dismal run is fairly indicitive of the self-serving nature of Irish politics. Because any successor will indeed appear to be accepting a poisoned chalice, but really, has an opportunity to give the country real leadership at a time when it is desperatly needed. Ireland needs a leader with a bit of class and some character, a person with the grit to make hard decisions and follow them through despite the vested interests. Damned hard as I have tried, I can't think of a single Politician who fits the bill. M.Martin may well be a fine man, but he appears to me to lack that certain toughness and fire of character of a real leader. He's just a bit too Ryan Tubridy for my liking(no offence Ryan!), likeable, but just not gritty enough.

johngalway

FF nua my eye. Same shower of chancers under a different head chancer :mad:

dunsandin

johngalway wrote: »

FF nua my eye. Same shower of chancers under a different head chancer :mad:

Yeah, pretty much what I think myself.
I was just trying to reign in my cynicism for a little while, and try to develope a mature interest in the shower of gobsh1tes, but I developed a boil on my arsem- its better to let it out.:)

dunsandin

Erm, yes, quite, thats spot on. Well said. Whatttt????

Beez Neez

Lenihan is not up to a heave - his health means he just is not up to the cut and thrust of a heave but Martin and Aherne are sharpening the knives as we speak. Should be an interesting week next week

caseyann

johngalway wrote: »

FF nua my eye. Same shower of chancers under a different head chancer :mad:

I keep reading gúna instead of nua

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBwYhpd_efA&feature=related