Fiance calling the shots

LegacyUser

Tells me he won't be ready to consider starting a family for at least 5 years (at which point we'll be 33). Don't mind this as much as, it wasn't even a proper conversation- basically, ever so nicely telling me, here's how it's going to be, "I'm telling you because I don't want to give you false hope". Thanks for telling me AFTER I accept the marriage proposal!
I've no major plans to get pregnant in the near future, what I don't appreciate is being TOLD we'll start a family on his time, on his terms. I almost feel like giving back the ring, it's meant to symbolise a partnership- it's starting to feel like it could be a dictatorship.

Taltos

Few things strike me.

1. At 33 he will begin (...) to consider having a family. What if the result of this means NO. Are you ok with this?
2. Where is the conversation - the discussion with each other of your aspirations / dreams?

I say this as it is perfectly A.OK to say the above - but that should then open communication on the topic. Might not be the best way to start a chat - but it is an entry point.

Coming back to 2 - how much have you both really talked about things - and I mean everything? As your thought of giving back the ring - well - if you are that fast to throw the ring back now - what will you both be like when the crap really hits the fan after you are married? Divorce???

Start communicating now, setting boundaries and expectations with each other before it is too late.
Also find out NOW - does he want kids or NOT - as if not and you do - then you really have a hell of a lot more to talk about than his tactless statements or fait accompli.

LegacyUser

He says he will want kids, then. Just not now,& not for 5 years. He'll be "ready" then.
We've had lots of open, honest conversations. I've been open& honest about the fact that it scares me starting a family in my mid-late 30's...increased risk of infertility, Downs' Syndrome, ect. Manageable stuff, but equally not stuff you'd purposely increase your risk of.
It's the age old dilemma, I worry I'll have left it too late. My best friend is only 28& just had a miscarriage at 10 weeks, she& her husband have been trying for the last year to get pregnant, to no avail. So I'm of the opinion that you can't just take things for granted. He thinks I'm scaremongering& we've all the time in the world.
I didn't mean I'd give back the ring (I like being engaged!- joke), but I feel like he's taking charge of something& we're planning our lives wholly around his schedule. And when we've discussed it- ad infinitum- it's non-negotiable.

tenchi-fan

tunnellight wrote: »

Tells me he won't be ready to consider starting a family for at least 5 years (at which point we'll be 33). Don't mind this as much as, it wasn't even a proper conversation- basically, ever so nicely telling me, here's how it's going to be, "I'm telling you because I don't want to give you false hope". Thanks for telling me AFTER I accept the marriage proposal!
I've no major plans to get pregnant in the near future, what I don't appreciate is being TOLD we'll start a family on his time, on his terms. I almost feel like giving back the ring, it's meant to symbolise a partnership- it's starting to feel like it could be a dictatorship.

Engagement is not a big commitment.. marriage is. Use the time in between to bash out the main sticking points.

I think you might be in the wrong rather than your fiancée. He brought up the topic, told you where he stood and rather than discuss it like an adult you fume that he is dictating things to you.

If he refused to discuss this issue with you then you have every right to be angry and the lack of communication should be a big enough reason to give the ring back.

If you actually discussed the issue and found your plans are irreconcilable, once again by all means give the ring back.

But the fact that you aren't communicating with him is rather unusual, given that you are getting married. Why didn't you press for a proper conversion? Why didn't you express your opinion? Do you even know why he doesn't want kids for over 5 years?

Perhaps you're not willing to discuss this because you are afraid it might sour things between you. But either way I think you both need to work on your communication skills.

LegacyUser

Just read 2nd message. We've done the whole "big conversation" thing. Literally, for hours.
And whilst we were both of the opinion then, 2-3yrs, now he's changed the goalposts to 5years. I suppose I'm just frustrated cos we've hashed over this so much& I'm the one making the comprimises, not him.

tenchi-fan

tunnellight wrote: »

Just read 2nd message. We've done the whole "big conversation" thing. Literally, for hours.
And whilst we were both of the opinion then, 2-3yrs, now he's changed the goalposts to 5years. I suppose I'm just frustrated cos we've hashed over this so much& I'm the one making the comprimises, not him.

so after a big conversation he disregards everything and says "by the way, it's 5 years now" and now you're deciding to call off the engagement..

From what you've wrote, it sounds like he used the engagement to trap you, you've committed to marrying him and now you're going to be expected to make compromises.

The whole "dictating" aspect of your argument is a smokescreen. The real issue is whether you are going to be happy in your first 5 years of marriage!

You need to pull him up on this. I stand by my point, you need to have the "big conversation" again. and again, if necessary.

implausible

tunnellight wrote: »

And whilst we were both of the opinion then, 2-3yrs, now he's changed the goalposts to 5years.

tunnellight wrote: »

He says he will want kids, then. Just not now,& not for 5 years. He'll be "ready" then.

I'm hearing alarm bells here. Does he want kids at all? It sounds like he doesn't but is hoping that in the future he may come around to the idea. You should want the same things in a relationship and while compromise is essential in a marriage, some things are deal-breakers. Is having kids a deal-breaker for you? Would you be happy in a marriage where a decision was made not to have them?

MRBEAVER

Men want sex. Women want babies. Assume you will "forget" to take the pill and "accidentally" get pregnant. He will probably accept it and support you.

LegacyUser

tunnellight wrote: »

I've been open& honest about the fact that it scares me starting a family in my mid-late 30's...increased risk of infertility, Downs' Syndrome, ect. Manageable stuff, but equally not stuff you'd purposely increase your risk of.
It's the age old dilemma, I worry I'll have left it too late. My best friend is only 28& just had a miscarriage at 10 weeks, she& her husband have been trying for the last year to get pregnant, to no avail. So I'm of the opinion that you can't just take things for granted. He thinks I'm scaremongering& we've all the time in the world.

you both need to sit down and talk together as adults and have these conversations again and again regarding not just children but about what you expect from eachother from your marriage.

I'm the same age as ye at 28 and tbh i don't think either of you have the maturity to get married nor have children...or have a pet together either tbh.

as a married couple you will face much more pressuring situations and decisions than when to have kids and if you can't rationally and calmly discuss this rather important issue like adults, as this is an important decision for you both to make and decide together on, then there's little hope for ye with dealing with the real life of marriage, parenting, the much bigger decisions that you will both have to make on behalf of your children and not playing barbie and ken make believe. You both need a wake up call now on what a commitment you are making to eachother is.

I also think that with pregnancy and later life in 30s and what you've heard from your friends and complications they've had (a miscarriage can occur for many reasons), you should both speak to a GP about the biological and associated complications of having a baby purely based on age as you have differing points of view. Fertility is different for men who can father a child even in their 60s and older and it's not the same for a woman, but get correct information regarding fertility for women from a GP and not from google searches and hearsay.

overall, yes you may be mad and disappointed at him changing it from 2/3 years to maybe 5 years or more, but if you're not prepared to sit down and go through these things with the realisation that you might actually have to deal with a baby planned or unplanned and that even a baby is a concrete tangible thing that you need to have some sort of maturity to cope with having in your life.

in other words, if you can't be adults about this now, then a)you shouldn't be getting married due to both being immature and b)you're both not responsible and mature enough to even think about having a baby

but you should discuss again and again what realistically you expect from this marriage and set it in stone

CDfm

I am with him on this and he is being straight up that his priorities over the next 5 years do not include kids.

He probably has said things before about personal and life goals and what you hear is kids,nothing else.

You say you have had the "big chat" but have you.

Here is a due dilogence on marriage and it does the big chat thing so if you need to appraise your situaion get it

http://www.thatbitchbook.com/due_diligence.html

Taltos

MRBEAVER wrote: »

Men want sex. Women want babies. Assume you will "forget" to take the pill and "accidentally" get pregnant. He will probably accept it and support you.

I hope you are not suggesting the OP fall pregnant with the assumption he will stand by her???!!!!

If a guy does not want kids or thinks they are being trapped - WHY would they stay? The OP could very well find herself the proud single parent of a child chasing after the biological father for support for the next 20 years.

Sorry - not being personal - but if this was a suggestion on how to get a kid with her current partner then this is the most reckless piece of advice I have seen here in a long time.

OP - as tenchi-fan reiterated you really do need to communicate properly. Talking for hours about something is not necessarily communicating. If at the end of this true conversation you are still on either end of the spectrum then cards on the table you do need to consider ending this relationship for your long-term happiness as it would appear that you may NOT be a good match (CDfm's link... brilliant by the way).

CDfm

+ 1 . I agree - lots of relationships fail over the kids issue and because of the financial pressure they bring.

So OP how many kids do you want and when do you want them and do you intend to work i.e. how are the children to be paid for.

MrDarcy

They say there is never a perfect time to start a family. Can you tell us what his basis is for the 5 year delay??? Is it based on where he expects to be in 5 years financially??? If it is, the real probability is that he will be no better set up in 5 years than he is now... If it's just a thing where there is no logical or rational basis for a 5 year delay, other than, "I'm not ready", I'd be getting very worried.

i-digress

MRBEAVER wrote: »

Men want sex. Women want babies. Assume you will "forget" to take the pill and "accidentally" get pregnant. He will probably accept it and support you.

Presuming that he did stay with her, which is just a presumption, it doesn't solve the root of the problem. Which is that they don't communicate well, and that's something that they need to sort out before they get married.

And I don't think the OP is being unreasonable thinking about breaking the engagement. If he is going to change the goalposts and doesn't value her opinion, that's a red flag. Is he going to do this everytime you guys have a difference of opinion? Just tell you what to do?

I'm not saying you should break it off OP, but he's being fairly unreasonable imo.

fungun

Specifics aside, you cannot in a proper reln have a serious discussion that involves drawing a conclusion (2-3 yrs) and then him just changing it (to 5 yrs) without discussion or at a minimum him saying why he has changed his feelings. And the "I dont want to give you false hope" line is so arrogant/cond

You have identified the correct issue. He feels like he can make unilateral decisions. Which to some extent he can as he should not be forced into things like this. But the way he has done it does suggest he feels he has the power to do this without having to really think of you. Balance of power is not an easy thing to change in a reln.
If you feel really strongly about it then saying that you definitely want children and you dont want to get married to him until this is resolved appropriately might be a bit of a good shock for him to get....forcing him to recognise you both have a say in this.

CDfm

fungun wrote: »

Specifics aside, you cannot in a proper reln have a serious discussion that involves drawing a conclusion (2-3 yrs) and then him just changing it (to 5 yrs) without discussion or at a minimum him saying why he has changed his feelings. And the "I dont want to give you false hope" line is so arrogant/cond

You can if it is dependent on circumstances. For example, anyone working in recruitment or construction or advertising may need to change their plans due to financial constraints.

You have identified the correct issue. He feels like he can make unilateral decisions. Which to some extent he can as he should not be forced into things like this. But the way he has done it does suggest he feels he has the power to do this without having to really think of you. Balance of power is not an easy thing to change in a reln.

The OP has not specified a reason - it is her worry with age and health that appears to be the reason its an issue but she has not given his reasons.

A child is a financial commitment as big or bigger than a mortgage and no smaller than buying a new car every year .

So is the fiance worried about financials.

If you feel really strongly about it then saying that you definitely want children and you dont want to get married to him until this is resolved appropriately might be a bit of a good shock for him to get....forcing him to recognise you both have a say in this.

Now he may not want children -in which case it is serious -and this needs resolving.

For someone who wants kids -he may then be the wrong guy or indeed if his career is one that is highly dependent on the economy then maybe the OP needs to adjust her expectations.

So if the OPs expectations are being a stay at home Mum -that may not be realistic.

It is easy to speculate but the OP has not given much information away.

i-digress

There are plenty of good reasons to wait to have a child. And after discussing between themselves if she found he was really against having them sooner she might give in and agree to kids at 33. That is a very different thing to being told that there was no question of kids for the next five years.

fungun

CDfm wrote: »

You can if it is dependent on circumstances. For example, anyone working in recruitment or construction or advertising may need to change their plans due to financial constraints.

umm read my post properly, i said "or without saying why". So if thats why, then he needs to explain this.

wrt your other quotes the specifics you mention that are lacking have nothing to do with the crux....the OP is not even referring to this as the specific problem...the title of the thread is that 'fiance calls the shots'. Who cares why he changed, the point is he should explain it to his fiancee, not just position it as 'decision taken' without talking to her about it

CDfm

fungun wrote: »

umm read my post properly, i said "or without saying why". So if thats why, then he needs to explain this.

wrt your other quotes the specifics you mention that are lacking have nothing to do with the crux....the OP is not even referring to this as the specific problem...the title of the thread is that 'fiance calls the shots'. Who cares why he changed, the point is he should explain it to his fiancee, not just position it as 'decision taken' without talking to her about it

I agree with you that the decision without consulting is wrong as it would be equally wrong of her to make the decision to get pregnant.

It seems though that it is only on this item he has taken a specific stance and it does seem to be her issue as she mentioned her nervousness following her friends miscarriage as the reason for her misgivings and was light on the detail of what reason if any he gave just included what happened her friend..

Because the OP has not been specific as to any reason I suggested she gets the checklists from Mary Cleary's book to deal with the hard questions and reasons if any.

If she wants children and he does not then she should pull out of the marriage.

Nevyn

MRBEAVER wrote: »

Men want sex. Women want babies. Assume you will "forget" to take the pill and "accidentally" get pregnant. He will probably accept it and support you.

That is being dishonest, deceit and frankly fraud.
No way to carry on in a relationship.

seenitall

Thaedydal wrote: »

That is being dishonest, deceit and frankly fraud.
No way to carry on in a relationship.

Absolutely, PLUS it is, I think, much less likely to produce the overall wanted result (i.e. defrauded guy sticking around) than you would think... not in this day and age...

LegacyUser

Thanks for the advice....don't worry, I don't plan on "accidentally" falling pregnant though! The thing that bugs me is, I've 2 pals who have, & things have been fine between them and their OH's, whereas I've been totally honest about my feelings& had nothing but hassle for doing so. Agh!
As for discussing things "calmly and rationally", we have. Over, and over, and over. It's cos I'm sick of discussing things with him& getting nowhere that I came on here. There's been no hysterics, there's plenty of talking and communication. (Probably too much, really). I just feel that I'll be the one going through 9months of pregnancy& a labour,& most likely being the one to do most of the rearing, so therefore my view is slightly- marginally only- more valid than his when it comes to the "when". Obv my view shouldn't be given priority over his, but it should certainly be taken into consideration& not dismissed?
I haven't been googling random medical stories, or listening to anecdotes- I work in a scientific field& my views on older mothers are backed up by statistics and studies (the proper ones, not ones I cherry-pick to fight my cause!). He's waiting for the "right" time. In my view there'll never be a right time, we could be waiting a lifetime- and still not reach it!

seenitall

tunnellight wrote: »

Thanks for the advice....don't worry, I don't plan on "accidentally" falling pregnant though! The thing that bugs me is, I've 2 pals who have, & things have been fine between them and their OH's, whereas I've been totally honest about my feelings& had nothing but hassle for doing so. Agh!
As for discussing things "calmly and rationally", we have. Over, and over, and over. It's cos I'm sick of discussing things with him& getting nowhere that I came on here. There's been no hysterics, there's plenty of talking and communication. (Probably too much, really). I just feel that I'll be the one going through 9months of pregnancy& a labour,& most likely being the one to do most of the rearing, so therefore my view is slightly- marginally only- more valid than his when it comes to the "when". Obv my view shouldn't be given priority over his, but it should certainly be taken into consideration& not dismissed?
I haven't been googling random medical stories, or listening to anecdotes- I work in a scientific field& my views on older mothers are backed up by statistics and studies (the proper ones, not ones I cherry-pick to fight my cause!). He's waiting for the "right" time. In my view there'll never be a right time, we could be waiting a lifetime- and still not reach it!

I think that your overall problem is that you don't trust your fiance. You don't really believe it when he says "5 more years and then I will be ready (to consider?)". You are probably scared that after 5 years it will be: "Oh heck, I'm still not ready, so sorry old girl. I'm kind of almost certain I will be ready in 3/5/8 years though. What's the hurry anyway? Can't see it myself."

I think you are completely right not to trust him, judging by your description of his behaviour so far. It's called stalling and procrastinating.

Just my 2 cents.

CDfm

tunnellight wrote: »

I haven't been googling random medical stories, or listening to anecdotes- I work in a scientific field& my views on older mothers are backed up by statistics and studies (the proper ones, not ones I cherry-pick to fight my cause!). He's waiting for the "right" time. In my view there'll never be a right time, we could be waiting a lifetime- and still not reach it!

OP if you feel this way and it is a fundamental issue for you then you should come straight out and say it.

Your instinct is that there will never be a right time for him and you dont really trust him on this issue.

That is serious as you feel no matter what the circumstances are he wants to be child free.

This trust thing is a fairly big thing in a relationship and it seems to me that you have misgivings and it would be wrong to marry -that being the case.

thefeatheredcat

tunnellight wrote: »

don't worry, I don't plan on "accidentally" falling pregnant though! The thing that bugs me is, I've 2 pals who have, & things have been fine between them and their OH's, whereas I've been totally honest about my feelings& had nothing but hassle for doing so. Agh!

OP,

Honesty is on your side on this, so fair play there.

Maybe you've both talked about it so much that it's over-talked if you know what I mean? Maybe he needs a bit of time to digest what you've said and maybe gather perspectives from friends and family? I assume you've talked about other things too and that this isn't just the primary focus?

You have a right to decide what's best for you and your body. If having children is something that you both want, then logically setting a timescale and cut off point for having them would be necessary, not just in terms of biology but in terms of how old you'll be when your child/children are finished secondary school and going to college/starting their own life and the two of you working and looking forward to your mature years.

But I don't think it's fair that you're left not knowing if in 5 years time he'll be ready to have children. He said 2-3. Now it's 5-ish... What if he's never ready? Maybe he likes the idea of children but it may just be the case that it's not for him, but hasn't realised it yet and maybe hoping you'll marry him anyway and be happy with just that.

I wouldn't like to be in your situation and you're right to get to the bottom of this. I wouldn't like that uncertainty going into a marriage and being led to believe that having children is part of a plan that was jointly made, only to find out that it's not the case and I've lost my chance of having a child naturally, safely and without worry of complications or leaving it too late. That's just unfair.

Sounds like he just doesn't understand the concept of a biological clock. As a man, he will likely be able to father children into his retirement years. You, OP, do not have the luxury of hanging around waiting to see how he'll feel. I think you're absolutely right not to take it for granted that you'll conceive immediately, as your fiance seems to be doing. If there are issues, you'll have to try for a year (so then you'll be 34), then be referred somewhere (usually a waiting list), then go for tests which can take months, then start fertility treatments. If they fail, you might be too old to adopt by that time. I'm not scaremongering, this is fact. Sure, some women conceive naturally and have issue-free pregnancies at 40+, but it doesn't sound like you're comfortable with that. If you are dead set on having children, I don't think it's right to wait until you're 33 before your fiance is ready to just 'consider' the possibility. It doesn't even sound like he has a solid reason, it sounds like he's stalling and being very unfair to you. I would talk to him and explain that you really don't have all the time in the world.