Renting out my house - what furniture am I obliged to leave?

Andrews58

Hi,

I am renting my property out for the first time at the end of the month and I wondered can anyone tell me what furniture etc I am obliged to leave for the new tenants?

I will be leaving the obvious furtiture like sofa, dining table, telly etc but I am wondering more about the smaller things like crokery, cutlery, microwave, lamps etc.....

Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

oflahero

There's a growing niche market looking for unfurnished houses. I've seen a few posts around from people who want to put off buying but still have the trappings that come with family, but complain that all the houses they can find come furnished. Might be a consideration that could set you apart from the competition?

number10a

As far as I know you're not obliged to leave anything like that.

But common sense would say to leave plates, cups, bowls, a few saucepans, cutlery.... the basics like - just to be nice. Makes it easier to rent out too I suppose. You don't have to go overboard at all. No need for lamps, microwave (some people expect it but I've lived in a few places with none), even the telly. The place I'm living in is with my own telly, but if you have it put it in. Don't worry about those things once you have the bigger things like beds, sofas, chairs and a kitchen table.

Edit: and what oflahero said too... never even thought of that!

Andrews58

Thanks for the responses!

I should have mentioned previously that i have found tenants for my house and they want to rent it furnished. I just want to be sure on what I am supposed to leave for them........

Thanks

am i bovvered

Ask the tenants what they need, some have everything some need everything, the best is to have a chat.
One thing I would recommend is to leave a good hoover and some quality cleaning products, it always helps maintain the home well.

convert

A good hoover is a very good idea. It does help to keep the place cleaner.

Most places I've lived in have only had the basics - no microwave, TV, lamps, etc., although one or two has had a microwave, etc. It wouldn't really bother me either way, even if I hadn't acquired a lot of things like lamps, microwaves, cutlery, crockery, etc. over the years. Other places have also had book shelves, ironing boards, etc.

The other thing I would advise is drawing up an itinerary of everything that you leave in the apartment, from sofas and beds to lamps, plates, cutlery, sweeping brush, etc. I know it may sound OTT, but it really makes things much easier in the end if there is a dispute. Likewise, taking photos of the apartment before the tenants move in is also a good idea.

Andrews58

Thanks convert - great advice.

Raskolnikov

Don't leave anything in it of any serious value. I've heard a story about an antique bit of furniture worth thousands of Euro being chopped up and used as firewood.

Another thing since you're new. Make sure that you transfer ESB, gas, etc. over to the new tenant. If they don't pay, do a runner, then the ESB, gas people will chase them, not you for the arrears.

Andrews58

Thanks Raskolnikov.

Do I need to give ESB, Bord Gais etc some notice or can I just call them the day before to tranfer the names over?

Victor

Supply furniture, fridge, cooker and maybe microwave. Do not supply crockery, cutlery, etc. as these items inevitable get lost, broken, etc.

convert wrote: »

itinerary

Inventory.

convert

Victor wrote: »

Inventory.

Thank you for unkindly pointing that out!

omega666

from my own experiences of renting these are the norms i have found in all houses ive rented

1) beds
2) lamps
3) chest of drawers
4) dining table
5) chairs
6) sofa
7) hover
8) microwave
9) fridge/ Oven / washing machine
10) Ironing board/ Iron

cutlery, pots and pans are sometimes there, sometimes not.
Kettle and toasters are somtimes there.
Tellys are not usually supplied/

thats all i can think of

goat2

Andrews58 wrote: »

Hi,

I am renting my property out for the first time at the end of the month and I wondered can anyone tell me what furniture etc I am obliged to leave for the new tenants?

I will be leaving the obvious furtiture like sofa, dining table, telly etc but I am wondering more about the smaller things like crokery, cutlery, microwave, lamps etc.....

Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

take the telly, as if you leave that in, you have to pay licence, since you are the owner of tv.all apartments i see rented have no tv for that obvious reason, also no phone, you will not have to worry for nonpayment,you just leave beds, no need to leave bedclothes or pillowsyou leave electric kettlefridge cookercrockery, cutlery, fry pan, set of pots and teapotin the sitting roomsideboardtv standcoffee tablesuite of furniture, that is what i can think of for now

subway

minimum requirements - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/repairs-maintenance-and-minimum-physical-standards

From 1 February 2009, a landlord must:

* Ensure that the house is in a proper state of structural repair. This means that it must be essentially sound with roof, floors, ceilings, walls and stairs in good repair and not subject to serious dampness or rotting. The new Regulations strengthen this requirement with effect from 1 December 2009 (see below)
* Provide a sink with hot and cold water
* Provide a separate ventilated room with a bath or shower and toilet
* Provide heating appliances for every room lived in
* Provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, for example, a 4 ring hob with oven and grill, fridge-freezer and microwave oven
* Provide clothes washing facilities
* Provide clothes drying facilities if there isn’t a garden or a yard
* Ensure that electricity or gas supplies are in good repair and safe
* Ensure that every room has adequate ventilation and both natural and artificial lighting
* Provide a fire blanket and fire alarms
* Provide access to vermin-proof and pest-proof refuse storage facilities.

note that a microware is required

djimi

If you advertise it as non-furnished and they sign the lease as such then youre not obliged to provide them with furniture. If they dont like it they are free to move in somewhere else.

Thats interesting about the microwave; that might have saved me some money

amiable

goat2 wrote: »

take the telly, as if you leave that in, you have to pay licence, since you are the owner of tv.all apartments i see rented have no tv for that obvious reason, also no phone, you will not have to worry for nonpayment,you just leave beds, no need to leave bedclothes or pillowsyou leave electric kettlefridge cookercrockery, cutlery, fry pan, set of pots and teapotin the sitting roomsideboardtv standcoffee tablesuite of furniture, that is what i can think of for now

You are wrong here i'm afraid my friend. The tenant is obliged to pay for the licence. The following is taken from the Citizens Advice website
Rented accommodation

If you are a tenant living in rented accommodation with a television you must have a television licence. This applies irrespective of who owns the television (whether the television belongs to you or the landlord). The law states that anyone resident on a premises in possession of a television set must have a television licence.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/media/tv_licences

murphym7

subway wrote: »

minimum requirements - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/repairs-maintenance-and-minimum-physical-standards


note that a microware is required

Microwave is not required - it is merely listed as an example.

djimi

murphym7 wrote: »

Microwave is not required - it is merely listed as an example.

Bah humbug... Looks like Ill have to make a trip to DID so... :mad:

subway

murphym7 wrote: »

Microwave is not required - it is merely listed as an example.

my undersanding is that is a list of what a landlord should provide.

if they wish to provide alternatives or upgrades then so be it, but thats the recommendation as minimum standards, i believe it was discussed on this forum before.

(and there isnt really an alternative to a microwave)

murphym7

subway wrote: »

my undersanding is that is a list of what a landlord should provide.

if they wish to provide alternatives or upgrades then so be it, but thats the recommendation as minimum standards, i believe it was discussed on this forum before.

(and there isnt really an alternative to a microwave)

There is - its called an oven, we have had them for years.

I would be shocked to hear if threashold or the PRTB would ever come out and say that every landord had to provide a micowave. As I said earlier, the piece quoted stated clearly "example". They don't use that word anywhere else in that exerpt.

subway

murphym7 wrote: »

There is - its called an oven, we have had them for years.

I would be shocked to hear if threashold or the PRTB would ever come out and say that every landord had to provide a micowave. As I said earlier, the piece quoted stated clearly "example". They don't use that word anywhere else in that exerpt.

http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/Statutory%20Instrument%20on%20Standards%20Technical%20Guidance%20Document%20Final%20Draft%2026.01.09.doc.pdf

Requirement under article 8 of the Regulations:
• There shall be provided, within the habitable area of the house, for the
exclusive use of the house:
(d) Microwave oven,

the attitude of some, but not all, landlords in this country is what is shocking tbh

amiable

subway wrote: »

http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/Statutory%20Instrument%20on%20Standards%20Technical%20Guidance%20Document%20Final%20Draft%2026.01.09.doc.pdf



the attitude of landlords in this country is what is shocking tbh

Not all landlords attitudes is shocking in this country.
IMO though if you want to rent a place you should provide a microwave whether obliged by law or not. If nothing else it keeps the tenant happy

murphym7

subway wrote: »

http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/Statutory%20Instrument%20on%20Standards%20Technical%20Guidance%20Document%20Final%20Draft%2026.01.09.doc.pdf



the attitude of landlords in this country is what is shocking tbh

I stand corrected - sorry.:o

Merch

amiable wrote: »

You are wrong here i'm afraid my friend. The tenant is obliged to pay for the licence. The following is taken from the Citizens Advice website
Rented accommodation

If you are a tenant living in rented accommodation with a television you must have a television licence. This applies irrespective of who owns the television (whether the television belongs to you or the landlord). The law states that anyone resident on a premises in possession of a television set must have a television licence.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/media/tv_licences

goat2 wrote: »

take the telly, as if you leave that in, you have to pay licence, since you are the owner of tv.all apartments i see rented have no tv for that obvious reason, also no phone, you will not have to worry for nonpayment,you just leave beds, no need to leave bedclothes or pillowsyou leave electric kettlefridge cookercrockery, cutlery, fry pan, set of pots and teapotin the sitting roomsideboardtv standcoffee tablesuite of furniture, that is what i can think of for now

I see this is already quoted but it is the occupier of the property not the owner of the property or the tv that pays tv licence.

subway wrote: »

http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/Statutory%20Instrument%20on%20Standards%20Technical%20Guidance%20Document%20Final%20Draft%2026.01.09.doc.pdf

the attitude of landlords in this country is what is shocking tbh

I find that odd that a microwave is included in the regulations, I would talk to the tenant as there is no point purchasing one if they aleady have one.

I would make an inventory of absolutely everything, I would list its condition also, perhaps even include a table of condition you will use, eg very good, good, fair and also if new.
Also take pictures, especially of new items or those that would be expensive to replace and then take pictures of everything else.

A complete list may seem pedantic and you may not be concerned if a few forks are missing or a few plates or cups got broken but, if all bar one plate was broken and a littany of items missing then that would add up.
I'd consider an addendum to the lease to state that items have been demonstrated functional/understood i.e electric shower, heating/controls cooker etc and that instructions (either the original but probably preferable a copy of them) have been left.

subway

Merch wrote: »

I find that odd that a microwave is included in the regulations, I would talk to the tenant as there is no point purchasing one if they aleady have one.

indeed, but you are required to supply one and, as most tenancies in this country are furnished you will find few tenants with their own white goods in tow.

i agree that it is odd that a microwave is legislated for but security of tenure is something that is not provided for

subway

amiable wrote: »

Not all landlords attitudes is shocking in this country.

100% agree, post edited accordingly

convert

subway wrote: »

http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/Statutory%20Instrument%20on%20Standards%20Technical%20Guidance%20Document%20Final%20Draft%2026.01.09.doc.pdf

Requirement under article 8 of the Regulations:
• There shall be provided, within the habitable area of the house, for the
exclusive use of the house:
(d) Microwave oven,

I wish I'd known that before I bought my microwave. However, that said, I'm happy to have it as I can bring it with me if I ever manage to buy a place of my own!

In all my years of renting I've never lived in a property where a microwave was provided. A family member has just rented a lovely (fully furnished) house recently with all mod cons, including a TV, but there was no microwave provided. Can't wait to see their reaction when I tell them there should be one... :pac: That said, it's not the most important thing to have, once there's a working oven and hob, and all the other appliances provided are in good working order.

Merch

subway wrote: »

indeed, but you are required to supply one and, as most tenancies in this country are furnished you will find few tenants with their own white goods in tow.

i agree that it is odd that a microwave is legislated for but security of tenure is something that is not provided for

It isn't? how so?
after 6 months a tenant can have tenure for 4 years? providing they dont break rules and that can be proven.
I think that 6 months is an acceptable window for a landlord to see a tenant will pay, there is no real reason a landlord would want tenants in only to get rid of them within six months unless they were problematic

subway

Merch wrote: »

It isn't? how so?
after 6 months a tenant can have tenure for 4 years?c

not exactly

What rights do landlords and tenants have in Ireland, especially as to duration of contract, and eviction?

During the first six months, the landlord can terminate without specifying grounds. But once a tenancy has lasted 6 months, the landlord can terminate the tenancy during the following 3 years only if:

* The tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
* The dwelling is overcrowded
* The landlord needs the dwelling in the next 3 months
* The landlord requires the dwelling for his own occupation or for a family member
* The landlord intends to refurbish
* The landlord intends to change the business use of the dwelling

so some fairly broad get out clauses specified there, the most commonly used being "i need it for a family member"

Merch

subway wrote: »

not exactly
* The tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
* The dwelling is overcrowded
* The landlord needs the dwelling in the next 3 months
* The landlord requires the dwelling for his own occupation or for a family member
* The landlord intends to refurbish
* The landlord intends to change the business use of the dwelling

so some fairly broad get out clauses specified there, the most commonly used being "i need it for a family member"

If the tenant didnt comply with the obligations of the lease, it would be legal and reasonable for a landlord to get rid of them if they wanted to
If the dwelling was overcrowded then it can be assumed it wasn't let that way, then the first if would apply, its reasonable and legal for a landlord to get rid of the tenants as they will be breaking standard clauses in any tenant lease.
The next two seem very much the same, I suppose if a person owns a property they have precedence of occupation, Im not sure where that is supported elsewhere in law (ie some kind of precedence of occupation by ownership?)
I'd say its not unreasonable to have that six month window for a landlord to ensure a tenant is paying/paying heed to their obligations, a good landlord wont want shot of tenants if they are good, even a bad landlord wants the rent paid.
So if there are no issues why would a landlord want rid of someone if they are paying?

subway

If the tenant didnt comply with the obligations of the lease, it would be legal and reasonable for a landlord to get rid of them if they wanted to
If the dwelling was overcrowded then it can be assumed it wasn't let that way, then the first if would apply, its reasonable and legal for a landlord to get rid of the tenants as they will be breaking standard clauses in any tenant lease.

i dont disagree with these reasons, breach of contract and all that, fine by me.

Merch wrote: »

I suppose if a person owns a property they have precedence of occupation, Im not sure where that is supported elsewhere in law (ie some kind of precedence of occupation by ownership?)

that right there is the definition of "no security of tenure"
the tenant does not have precedent over the landlord.

a good landlord wont want shot of tenants if they are good, even a bad landlord wants the rent paid.
So if there are no issues why would a landlord want rid of someone if they are paying?

but, my point is that you don't have security of tenure so you are at the whim and mercy of a landlord who may or may not be rational, fair or sane.
a landlord can move you out for any reason they choose and you have no say in it as long as he does the house up.

anyway, we have derailed the thread enough at this stage

Merch

I'd say make a list and get the tenant to counter sign it seems like a good idea, also with the condition included and age of an item
I'd make a list showing items were demonstrated functional and counter signed by the tenant too and leave some written instructions, (originals tend to get lost so scanned copies that are clear should be ok)

It may be obvious how a toaster or vacuum cleaner works (or it may be obvious to you) but the instructions provide all the information and safety warnings.

That said if something becomes non functional, it doesnt necessarily mean it's the tenants fault, just shows it was functional when they got it.
The item may have expired on its own and may have been approaching the end of its life.
Also dont rely on the last page for signatures, get any addendum and the inventory/any specifics signed on that page.

Didnt see the last post before posting this, Derailing a bit, but I'd say tenants have a lot of rights, its a matter of both sides being informed and reasonable. Still think the tenure thing is ok for tenants, eg after 6 months so long as it is being rented they can continue to rent for 4 years.

Baralis1

Just on the OP's original topic. If there are tenants moving in to your house as a furnished house, and they have already viewed the house, surely all furniture, appliances, kitchenware etc that were in the house when they viewed it should be left there. If I viewed a house as fully furnished, I'd expect I'm seeing the house and all its contents as I am getting them besides obvious personal stuff unless the landlord pointed out something in particular that would'nt be left.

Lollymcd

goat2 wrote: »

take the telly, as if you leave that in, you have to pay licence, since you are the owner of tv.all apartments i see rented have no tv for that obvious reason, also no phone, you will not have to worry for nonpayment,you just leave beds, no need to leave bedclothes or pillowsyou leave electric kettlefridge cookercrockery, cutlery, fry pan, set of pots and teapotin the sitting roomsideboardtv standcoffee tablesuite of furniture, that is what i can think of for now

Not true. From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

If you are a tenant living in rented accommodation with a television you must have a television licence. This applies irrespective of who owns the television (whether the television belongs to you or the landlord). The law states that anyone resident on a premises in possession of a television set must have a television licence.

Just don't want anyone to be caught out!

djimi

Baralis1 wrote: »

Just on the OP's original topic. If there are tenants moving in to your house as a furnished house, and they have already viewed the house, surely all furniture, appliances, kitchenware etc that were in the house when they viewed it should be left there. If I viewed a house as fully furnished, I'd expect I'm seeing the house and all its contents as I am getting them besides obvious personal stuff unless the landlord pointed out something in particular that would'nt be left.

It depends on what the landlord/agent says at the time of the viewing I suppose, and also what is on the lease that is being signed. The landlord is entitled to show the house furnished but say to the tenant that it will not be furnished when they move in, and it is up to the tenant to sign or not sign based on this. If the landlord is showing the house as is, and the items in question are on the inventory of the lease, then they should be in the house when the tenant moves in.

Graces7

In our previous tenancy, all that was left as crockery, pans,cutlery was junky oddments. So we boxed it all up and used our own stuff.

It was horrible stuff..:rolleyes:

And here we stipulated that we have our own crockery, cutlery, linen etc; and we have our own freezer also and kettle and toaster; do not use a microwave.

jackal

Crockery, cutlery, pots and pans - no thanks, I would not like to use someone elses.

All I would want is: Sofa, table, chairs, light/lamps, bed, drawers, cupboards, and applicances (fridge, freezer, cooker, washing machine).

Hoover I could take or leave, most people would be bringing a hoover surely.

In general its probably a good idea to take photos of the condition of the house/furniture and get them countersigned by the renters to avoid "that stain was already there" style arguments when they leave.

doctor evil

Good to have the date shown on the photos too.