Fás paid €1.5m for site valued at €700,000

The_Minister

http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=154680929

Fás paid twice as much for a new head office than a property consultant’s value, the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) revealed today.

In separate deals, the C&AG found the Office of Public Works (OPW) bought six decentralisation sites for €6.9 million more than advisers had recommended.

The planned Fás headquarters in Birr, Co Offaly, cost €1.5 million in December 2004, despite consultants’ advising in August that year that the 5.59 acre site was worth €700,000.

The owner rejected the agency’s initial bid and following negotiations the State training body came up with the asking price.

The C&AG’s report also noted that four months after the initial low valuation, the consultant revised their advice the new valuation met the on-the-market value.

Fás management have yet to move their headquarters into the building.

Raising more question marks about corporate control at the agency, the C&AG went on to reveal Fás took a ten-year lease in 2007 for one floor in a building at the Birr Technology Centre.

Some 40 staff were supposed to take up posts there but only 20 people moved in.

Bosses agreed to rent the 708sq m space for €99,000 a year and then asked the landlord’s building firm to quote for a fit-out, for which they charged €1 million.

No-one else was asked to tender for the work and the refit and rent cost the taxpayer €200,000 a year.

The report also looked into the OPW’s purchase of sites for decentralisation and found 15 of the 22 sites were acquired at below average asking prices.

Five sites with costs higher than top benchmarked prices were purchased from private owners, it said.

A site in Mullingar was bought for €8.2 million, which was €2.9 million more than expected; a Newbridge site cost €5.5 million which was €1.5 million over; a Claremorris site purchased for €2.5 million was €1.2 million above expectations; while sites in Roscommon for €3 million, and Thomastown for €1.8 million were €900,000 and €300,000 respectively higher than the expected cost.

The C&AG also revealed consultants warned the OPW they paid over-the-odds for three sites.

The suspended decentralisation plan should have seen 11,000 civil servants from Dublin move to 95 locations around the country. By April this year 3,148 staff had moved.

The Fás story gets even worse.

I really, really wish that there were consequences for this kind of behaviour, not just for the people overseeing FÁS as a whole, but for the lower-down guy who actually made the decision to spend double the price of a site.

galwayrush

So, some pal of FF got twice the value of his land by selling it to a Government body.:rolleyes:

cloneslad

Fuck Áll Sense

Phill Ewinn

Get that FAS bloke to sell Anglo for us !

Biggins

Another day, another farce exposed.

*sigh*

mike65

I was happy with the price. Only had sheep on it.

Dempsey

No better or worse than what everyone else with money in this country did

RMD

What's to say the property consultant wasn't completely wrong?

Rubik.

All of which would have happen when Rody Molloy was in charge. Yet he walks away with a 111,245 euro pension, a once-off lump sum of 333,735 euro, two other separate payments of 55,622 euro and a car. FF don't really get the concept of accountability.

SeaFields

Rubik. wrote: »

All of which would have happen when Rody Molloy was in charge. Yet he walks away with a 111,245 euro pension, a once-off lump sum of 333,735 euro, two other separate payments of 55,622 euro and a car. FF don't give a fcuk about the concept of accountability.

FYP :mad:

kippy

Anyone know where Rody is from????
The whole decentralisation thing was a very expensive mistake/joke in fairness.
Dont hammer the wrong people here. Those decisions about that particular building were rubber stamped by Rody eager to get an office close to home. The department of finance and the opw would have signed off the purchase at the same time. A serious lack of oversight from all parties involved.

galwayrush

Rubik. wrote: »

All of which would have happen when Rody Molloy was in charge. Yet he walks away with a 111,245 euro pension, a once-off lump sum of 333,735 euro, two other separate payments of 55,622 euro and a car. FF don't really get the concept of accountability.

FF have a policy of rewarding monumental failure.:mad:

SoupyNorman

Biggins wrote: »

Another day, another farce exposed.

*sigh*

We are becoming the laughing stock of the western world. At least the other countries that have experienced such a depression either took decisive action against the people who acted most recklessly or got out and marched on the street or both.

starbelgrade

Dempsey wrote: »

No better or worse than what everyone else with money in this country did

The main difference here though - and it is a very important one - is that this was paid with taxpayers money.

Sometimes I feel like the government should have a big bonfire & we can just f*ck 20-45% of our income onto it every month. At least we'd get a bit of heat out of it.

SoupyNorman

galwayrush wrote: »

FF have a policy of rewarding monumental failure.:mad:

Well they do pay themselves handsomely.

kippy

starbelgrade wrote: »

The main difference here though - and it is a very important one - is that this was paid with taxpayers money.

Sometimes I feel like the government should have a big bonfire & we can just f*ck 20-45% of our income onto it every month. At least we'd get a bit of heat out of it.

Lets be completely honest about this - and I am not a supporter of overspending.
Everything that was spent in the past 10-15 years is taxpayers money............seeing as the loans for spending that money is now essentially being repaid by all taxpayers.

hello932

SoupyNorman wrote: »

We are becoming the laughing stock of the western world. At least the other countries that have experienced such a depression either took decisive action against the people who acted most recklessly or got out and marched on the street or both.

I thinks its fair to say that ireland's been known as a ****ehole for some time now-even before the crash of the property bubble.

starbelgrade

kippy wrote: »

Lets be completely honest about this - and I am not a supporter of overspending.
Everything that was spent in the past 10-15 years is taxpayers money............seeing as the loans for spending that money is now essentially being repaid by all taxpayers.

Where are you getting that from? Everything that was spent in the past 10-15 years is taxpayers money?!?!

kippy

starbelgrade wrote: »

Where are you getting that from? Everything that was spent in the past 10-15 years is taxpayers money?!?!

The poster made the point that it was taxpayers money that was spent on the site.
My point, the loans for the majority of big sites bought in the country which was bought with private "loaned" money, was actually taxpayers money, since it is the taxpayers that are now responsible for these loans, in a very indirect way.

Myrddin

Sure they're a grand bunch of lads :rolleyes:

Callan57

Follow the money I say ... who was the vendor, estate agent, solicitor/s etc etc

What's the betting on a conflict of interest arising?????
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

kippy

Callan57 wrote: »

Follow the money I say ... who was the vendor, estate agent, solicitor/s etc etc

What's the betting on a conflict of interest arising?????
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Yes, I agree. Follow the money, see who made any money out of it.

SoupyNorman

hello932 wrote: »

I thinks its fair to say that ireland's been known as a ****ehole for some time now-even before the crash of the property bubble.

Not really.

We were viewed upon with envy throughout the 'bubble' by many a nation hence the 'Celtic Tiger'. These nations felt a little inadequate maybe that our economic growth was bounding forth.

They now feel a little better that it was all a crock.

You know the feeling you get when you see someone you're very jealous of get very publicly embarrassed, well I think thats how we are being viewed.

Biggins

kippy wrote: »

Yes, I agree. Follow the money, see who made any money out of it.

I agree too but these boys are clever as can be seen by the Drumcondra mafia.
So getting the paper work and joining the dots is very good at what some are very effective in hiding.

gizmo

So in terms of the purchase of the site, basically Fás did what most people who bought their houses in the last couple of years did - pay more for their property than it was worth?

On a related note, the body which initially said it was overpriced then turned around 4 months later and said it was correct?

The C&AG’s report also noted that four months after the initial low valuation, the consultant revised their advice the new valuation met the on-the-market value.

So, bearing in mind this was 2004, they either under-estimated it the first time or something happened a few months later when they readjusted their evaluation of the site. In either case, shouldn't the focus be on why the value was readjusted rather than another rabbling at Fás for just going by the market price?

starbelgrade

kippy wrote: »

The poster made the point that it was taxpayers money that was spent on the site.
My point, the loans for the majority of big sites bought in the country which was bought with private "loaned" money, was actually taxpayers money, since it is the taxpayers that are now responsible for these loans, in a very indirect way.

You are making a rather large assumption that every loan for every large site will be taken over by NAMA. This is far from the case.

kippy

starbelgrade wrote: »

You are making a rather large assumption that every loan for every large site will be taken over by NAMA. This is far from the case.

Actually any loan over 5 million will be taken up by NAMA.
I assume you've seen the figures.
A very large portion of the excessive money spent on property by private individuals is now spread amongst the taxpayer.

Anyway, it's an aside.
This was a massive waste of taxpayers money which somehow managed to slip thought all regulatory controls that were in place at the time, for a site which, if decentralisation was fully implemented would ensure the head of FAS at the time could work close to home and ensure the home county of the then finance minister received a boost.
We have numerous oversight bodies, regulators and departments as well as consultants who are getting paid vast sums of money to ensure these kind of things dont happen........no one stopped it happening, as with many failures in the irish public and private sector in the past 10-15 years.

Sticky_Fingers

The report also looked into the OPW’s purchase of sites for decentralisation and found 15 of the 22 sites were acquired at below average asking prices.

Five sites with costs higher than top benchmarked prices were purchased from private owners, it said.

Playing devils advocate for a moment I notice how everyone here is ignoring this part of the report, it's the greed of the sellers and the incompetence of the estate agents who kept revising their estimates up who are chiefly to blame here. The sellers had Fas over a barrel with the decentralization issue and they stuck to their guns to get the asking price they wanted while for the vast majority of purchases Fas got a "good" deal....

Of Fook it, rabble rabble rabble, grab you pitchfork and your safe pass that shows you can operate it safely and join me on the streets

Biggins

Callan57 wrote: »

Follow the money I say ... who was the vendor, estate agent, solicitor/s etc etc

What's the betting on a conflict of interest arising?????
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

* Why do people think the areas that previous tribunals could further investigate, were restricted?
* Why do people think FG didn't push the expenses issue more?
* Why do people think a public bank inquiry is being conducted by people FF are actually appointing to said inquiry (example: Klaus Regling and Max Watson from the IMF) !!! Talk about getting to chose your own judges!
* Why do some people think FF failed to hold Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide accountable
* Why do some people think there is a failure by FF to tackle and investigate the bank regulator Patrick Neary further?
* Why do some people think staff within the NAMA body, staff silenced by state secrecy and censorship orders newly suddenly laid down (by FF!!!), are not allowed say who exactly is namely responsible in full?
* Why do you think the FULL "Golden Circle" has NOT been named - nor is FF or amazingly FG pushing for those names to be made public...!

... I could go on but one thing stands out - a good deal of our present lot in the Dail stink to high heaven of corruption - and thats on both sides of the Dail!

FreudianSlippers

I like the way only one person in this thread has questioned the valuation of the property while everyone else is running around like a chicken with its head cut off going "FFS FF AT IT AGAIN ARRRR I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW NAMA WORKS BLA BLA BLA" :rolleyes:

Phill Ewinn

Biggins wrote: »

* Why do people think the areas that previous tribunals could further investigate, were restricted?
* Why do people think FG didn't push the expenses issue more?
* Why do people think a public bank inquiry is being conducted by people FF are actually appointing to said inquiry (example: Klaus Regling and Max Watson from the IMF) !!! Talk about getting to chose your own judges!
* Why do some people think FF failed to hold Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide accountable
* Why do some people think there is a failure by FF to tackle and investigate the bank regulator Patrick Neary further?
* Why do some people think staff within the NAMA body, staff silenced by state secrecy and censorship orders newly suddenly laid down (by FF!!!), are not allowed say who exactly is namely responsible in full?
* Why do you think the FULL "Golden Circle" has NOT been named - nor is FF or amazingly FG pushing for those names to be made public...!

... I could go on but one thing stands out - a good deal of our present lot in the Dail stink to high heaven of corruption - and thats on both sides of the Dail!

* Funny handshake brigade.

BostonB

OisinT wrote: »

I like the way only one person in this thread has questioned the valuation of the property while everyone else is running around like a chicken with its head cut off going "FFS FF AT IT AGAIN ARRRR I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW NAMA WORKS BLA BLA BLA" :rolleyes:

I assume because thats the bigger picture.

At the time decentralisation was announced there was lots of talk about how it was a good idea, to send Public Sector to the far corners of the country, and get rid of all those expensive offices in Dublin, and expensive parking, yadya.

But few outside the public sector, were interested in the cost of decentralisation, (at one point a billion was estimated) the saving to be realised, or the cost of travel and overnights, of the public sector travelling between all these new locations. never mind that the locations chosen did not relate to the national development plan at all, and seemed to picked for politican gain and little else. Land speculation was rife with land and houses being bought up all over the country in expectation of some random Govt dept or agency landing in the vicinity.

The Govt had no figures to offer and no one seemed to question it. Looks a little different now...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=166556

spj1960

galwayrush wrote: »

FF have a policy of rewarding monumental failure.:mad:

Mark Coughlan at The Story has been questioning the Molloy payment for months now and is not receiving any real answers. The legality of the pension is questionable.

The department claimed that the pension falls under Section 6 of the aformentioned Labour Services Act. However, on examining the legislation with the excellent help of Ms Catherine Ceitin, who was involved in breaking the original story with Shane Phelan and Daniel McConnell, I could not see any provision allowing enhanced pension packages. This indicated that there should have be a statutory instrument – an amendment – made to the legislation to allow for the enhancements.

So where is the relevant statutory instrument? And if none such exists, what’s the legal basis for the pension enhancements as signed-off on by the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance?

http://thestory.ie/2010/07/23/revisiting-rody-molloys-golden-handshake/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/woman-who-revealed-fas-golden-handshake-1930445.html

Since then Catriona has met with senior figures within Labour and Fine Gael, including Leo Varadkar, who have taken up her investigations. Last weekend, following a meeting with her, Mr Varadkar spoke out, calling the Molloy deal "unlawful".