Cearc Fhraoigh II

Double Barrel

Red Grouse II

Cearc Fhraoigh, Lagopus Lagopus Hibernicus. A shy bird of the boglands

A superb game bird, this wildest of wild birds.
In an era where nearly everyone boasts to be an environmentalist it's amazing what has been allowed to happen to this bird of the heather. If lip service were to save it, the hills and bogs of this country would now be teaming with grouse.

Disease wise, trichostrongylus tenius, a parasitic worm picked up by the birds from the heather, can have calamitous effects, with a high death rate in the winter and early spring. This parasite is protected within the moisture film on the heather and when the birds feed on the heather shoots, it finds another home in their guts. Apart from the effects the parasite has on a bird's health, it also reduces its egg laying capacity and a surviving hen will have a much smaller and weaker clutch.
Of course, there are many other factors responsible for the disastrous plunge in grouse stocks. A major contributor has been the spread of aforestation, which has taken over the grouse's natural habitat. While in the past, the mountains were burned in the spring mainly to encourage new grass for cattle grazing, providing this was done before the beginning of the nesting season in April, it also helped the grouse, for the young heather shoots provided vital food.
Bad weather too at the time when chicks are hatched can have devastating effects. The little chicks are very vulnerable to damp weather at this stage and they are also exposed to predator birds. With the growth of aforestation, the number of birds of prey has spiralled upward significantly, particularly the kestrel and the sparrowhawk (both protected species) and of course, the magpie. Raptors sweeping over an open moor can rapidly deplete a young pack.

There are a few teachers who read and contribute to the boards who may be interested in the series of videos produced by the Moorland Assiciation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF4ioVbZIy8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMx-IK6N6iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wLnkLzxu8

Thanks Clive, I think I see the light. :rolleyes:
Learn something every day

landkeeper

ah you mentioned the 'raptor' factor wait for the usual suspects to come along and flame you now

jwshooter

i really liked the way they made that .

Double Barrel

Thanks Clive, much appreciate the help.

sikastag

Excellent. Thanks.

Feargal as Luimneach

Double barrel get your facts correct numbers of kestrel are decreasing (alarmingly) in numbers. The rabid anti-raptor feeling (jwshooter especially) in this forum from some posters is disturbing. Thankfully not all hunting posters here have these opinions.

clivej

Just watched those videos very good and enjoyable.

Thanks DB.

Vegeta

Will watch when I get home DB, cheers

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Double barrel get your facts correct numbers of kestrel are decreasing (alarmingly) in numbers. The rabid anti-raptor feeling (jwshooter especially) in this forum from some posters is disturbing. Thankfully not all hunting posters here have these opinions.

There not mountain/moorland birds eithier and so are absent or extremley scarce on upland moors - but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda:rolleyes:

jwshooter

Birdnuts wrote: »

There not mountain/moorland birds eithier and so are absent or extremley scarce on upland moors - but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda:rolleyes:

Kestrels ? if so .

you better go tell the ones on MT leinster that YOU think they should not be there . i have cycled it at least once a fortnight over the summer and there always hunting along the 9 stones area on the heather .

Vegeta

Birdnuts wrote: »

There not mountain/moorland birds eithier and so are absent or extremley scarce on upland moors - but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda:rolleyes:

While it may not be their main habitat they are definitely upland in my area. The first time I ever saw one was over upland moorland and I continue to see them there to this day.

One of the guys I shoot with doesn't hunt at all and he saw one in the same area. He tried to get a snap of it on his camera actually.

Birdnuts

Double Barrel wrote: »

:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF4ioVbZIy8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMx-IK6N6iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wLnkLzxu8

Thanks Clive, I think I see the light. :rolleyes:
Learn something every day

The chap in the video(Fred) is my type of keeper - does a great job and knows the difference between vermin and protected species to the benefit of all wildlife on moorland:). If only there were more of his type working in the industry in the UK!!

Birdnuts

Vegeta wrote: »

While it may not be their main habitat they are definitely upland in my area. The first time I ever saw one was over upland moorland and I continue to see them there to this day.

.

I've occasionally seen them too - but there nowhere near as common as they are over lowland farmland(long grass on edge of motorways are a favoured habitat too). In any case there very much the farmers/keepers friend in the vast numbers of rats(small mammals are there primary prey) they consume:)

Vegeta

Birdnuts wrote: »

I've occasionally seen them too - but there nowhere near as common as they are over lowland farmland. In any case there very much the farmers/keepers friend in the vast numbers of rats(small mammals are there primary prey) they consume:)

And what kind of range does a single adult bird cover?

jwshooter

Birdnuts wrote: »

The chap in the video(Fred) is my type of keeper - does a great job and knows the difference between vermin and protected species to the benefit of all wildlife on moorland:). If only there were more of his type working in the industry in the UK!!

every pheasant ,duck or partridges we release benefits all wild life in the area , as we have feeders down in the hungry winter months ,we control vermin , cover crops are often sown . i myself have dug flight ponds near the slaney and feed them over the winter .

uplands really benefit from keeping ,if a keeper was not doing his job he would not be in it long . <mod snip>

Birdnuts

Vegeta wrote: »

And what kind of range does a single adult bird cover?

Depends on the abundance of small mammals like rodents - around 1-10sqkm in lowland areas. In upland areas the territories would be much larger and the birds would tend to migrate to lower areas during winter and poor weather.:)

Double Barrel

Feargal,
What I wrote is a fact.

"With the growth of aforestation, the number of birds of prey has spiralled upward significantly, particularly the kestrel and the sparrowhawk (both protected species) and of course ....."

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Double barrel get your facts correct

Double Barrel

BN
Read your own literature:
Found in wide variety of open habitats including coasts, moor land, farmland, wetlands, roadside verges and town parks. In winter some birds move within the country, especially down from the uplands. .... but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda

Birdnuts wrote: »

There not mountain/moorland birds eithier and so are absent or extremley scarce on upland moors - but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda:rolleyes:

Double Barrel

By the way lads the topic is Grouse. :rolleyes:

Feargal as Luimneach

Double Barrel wrote: »

Feargal,
What I wrote is a fact.

"With the growth of aforestation, the number of birds of prey has spiralled upward significantly, particularly the kestrel and the sparrowhawk (both protected species) and of course ....."

http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/Portals/0/pdfs/CBS_Report06.pdf
http://www.europeanraptors.org/raptors/eurasian_kestrel.html
Kestrels are decreasing in Ireland fact!

Double Barrel

Feargal,

I am not disputing that they maybe in decline currently. That is not what I wrote.;)

Double Barrel

Birdnuts

Double Barrel wrote: »

BN
Read your own literature:
Found in wide variety of open habitats including coasts, moor land, farmland, wetlands, roadside verges and town parks. In winter some birds move within the country, especially down from the uplands. .... but why let little facts like that get in the way of ones agenda

I was referring to relative densities on lowland farmland(high) versus highland moors(low) in relation to the latest population census - anyway I'll get back on topic now:)

People with a genuine interest in Grouse and indeed all vulnerable moorland breeding birds might be interested to know about the situation as regards one of the the often overlooked problems in relation to blanket afforestation with alien conifers on our moorlands, peatlands and heathlands. I spent several years living in Erris Co. Mayo where I had the privilge of getting to know some of the NPWS staff in the area who were/are passionate about grouse and now work out of Ballycroy NP which contains some of the last barely viable populations of the species in the West. During this time I learnt alot about the history of Red Grouse in the area.

One of the most interesting things I found out was the fact that the nearby Glenamoy bog complex which is now an SAC and the surrounding commonage(much of it NHA) was until the 60's one of the best places to see grouse in the West of Ireland - indeed in the earlier decades it produced very shootable numbers of grouse as can be gauged by old landlord records in the area. However two things changed in the years leading up to the steep decline in the 60's onwards. One was the Bord Na Mona experimental peat centre which destroyed a large area of prime gouse habitat on the south bank of the Glenamoy River. But even more devastating was the activities of Coillte et al in the wider area which destroyed vast areas of habitat on both sides of the river, in the nearby Glencullin area and Lough Carrowmore

What has this got to do with "rats" you might say which most peple wouldn't assume to be much of "problem" on peatlands?? - Well back in 06 I was involved in the campaign to stop Shell building their dodgy refinaery in the middle of the old Bord Na Mona research centre right next to the Glenamoy SAC and salmon fishery. During this time I used to hang out in a trailer for hours at the entrance of the site that was surrounded by the spruce forestry that was planted on the bog. When construction work got underway that autumn me and my fellow protesters were shocked to discover that the vegetation at the side of the roads lining this forestry had become literally "alive" with hundreds of young rats. I would never have thought such a high density would be possible adjacent to forestry growing on peatlands!!:eek::(

I don't think I need to remind anyone here of the damage rats can do to ground nesting birds eggs and young and this along with the physical damage that forestry does to grouse habitat is a devastating knock out punch for grouse populations up and down the country as regards their very survival let alone producing numbers that could be shot.:(.

jwshooter

<mod snip> i have walked all of the wicklow mountains and crawled all over it for the best part of 20 years ,i can honestly say i never seen a rat ,well a 4 legged one any way .

i have seen a falcon hunt grouse and hen harriers kill wood cock one morning .

Feargal as Luimneach

<mod snip>
Where are the Hen Harrier in the Wicklow mountains?

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Where are the Hen Harrier in the Wicklow mountains?

loch dan .

Birdnuts

jwshooter wrote: »

loch dan .

I can see the NPWS in Wicklow getting more and more interested in this thread

Feargal as Luimneach

jwshooter wrote: »

loch dan .

Many breeding pairs?
None in Wicklow mountains

Birdnuts

Double Barrel wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF4ioVbZIy8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMx-IK6N6iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wLnkLzxu8

To drag the thread back on topic - What do people think of the wise words of our friend Fred the Keeper??:)

Feargal as Luimneach

Bad acting.

landkeeper

birdnuts and fergal this is simply for the two of you this will get me banned <mod snip>

Mod: Indeed, it did. landkeeper banned for a month for abusive uncivil behaviour

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Many breeding pairs?
None in Wicklow mountains

well you have to be out and about to see stuff , i might do a study some time <mod snip>

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

Harsh Fergal - If Fred is the real deal then his type are what game-keeping on grouse moors should be about:)

Sparks

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

That's not really fair - good acting would be both expensive and unnecessary for that.

jap gt

Birdnuts wrote: »

Harsh Fergal - If Fred is the real deal then his type are what game-keeping on grouse moors should be about:)

he seems to know his stuff, would have been better with out the young lad and all the setup parts, it would be much better if he just explained what/why he was doing the dif bits

ormondprop

i thought it was a great video, personally i knew nothing about grouse before watching it, even though it was designed for kids i learned a lot

and the guy fred is the real deal so what can you expect acting wise, all i can say is fair play to him for doing it
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/features/495601/Grouse_shooting__Preparing_for_the_Twelfth.html

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

please explain .

sfakiaman

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

If he was a good actor he would be in politics where the victory of style over substance is paramount, not gamekeepering.

sikastag

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

Worse Audience IMHO.

clivej

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

But Fred's not an actor but and video's are top rate. Bring on more of them I say.:)

homerhop

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bad acting.

Ah lads and ladies ya see they should have had a crown of flowers and skipped across the hill like a scene from the sound of music. Isn’t that the romantic image true “animal lovers” have of how we should interact with wildlife. :rolleyes:

Feargal as Luimneach

homerhop wrote: »

Ah lads and ladies ya see they should have had a crown of flowers and skipped across the hill like a scene from the sound of music. Isn’t that the romantic image true “animal lovers” have of how we should interact with wildlife. :rolleyes:

yip, that would be better!!!

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

yip, that would be better!!!

I take it your havin a larf Feargal, or are you a closet Morrissey Fan circa 1984;)

Sparks

/measures distance from here to the topic

/hovers hand over the "close thread" button...

Double Barrel

"RED GROUSE HABITAT
Ling heather Calluna vulgaris is crucial in the life cycle of red grouse. A mosaic of different aged heather stands is required. Birds nest and shelter in tall heather. They feed on young heather shoots, flowers and seed. Berries such as fraocháns or bilberry and some insects are eaten. Mineral grit is also required to assist the breakdown of heather in the gizzard. Males are territorial in winter, with females joining them on their territories in spring before nesting starts in late April early May.

Historically, red grouse have been distributed widely in Ireland with extensive areas of heaths and bogs providing suitable food and shelter. Grouse lovers have expressed concern over their decline in many areas due to habitat loss caused by overgrazing, afforestation, mechanical peat extraction and uncontrolled burning, along with predation. An increasing concern is the abandonment of heather uplands with the change in the livestock subsidy payment regime. Farming such land for production may not be economically viable.

In Northern Ireland a wide-ranging field survey, using tapes of grouse-calls to lure responses, found just 202 pairs in 2004. The current guesstimate for Ireland ranges between 1,000 and 5,000 breeding pairs. Red grouse are on the BirdWatch Ireland Red List of Birds of Conservation Concern in Ireland, because their range has declined by more than 50% in the last 25 years. The Red List comprises birds of highest conservation concern. BirdWatch Ireland compile these lists from all available data. Results from the forthcoming survey will confirm or change their status in time. An updated list due in 2007 will not include any change to the status of red grouse."

http://www.ipcc.ie/inforedgrouse.html

Double Barrel

Grouse Habitat:

BELOWaverageIQ

Sparks wrote: »

/measures distance from here to the topic

/hovers hand over the "close thread" button...

Well it makes a change from hovering your hand over the infraction/ban button
:D:D

Double Barrel

I have fond memories of the days, trudging the heather bogs in search of Grouse. Memories of great game dogs, setters and pointers, quartering the hillsides, heads up, noses working the wafting air sniffing for scent, then standing rigidly on point and the companion dog backing the dog that had found.



Pointers and Setters working grouse:
http://doublebarrel.posterous.com/28417499