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Alfa Romeo 156 1.6

  • 14-09-2010 10:18am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭


    Potentially looking at a Alfa 156 1.6 for herself. We were looking for high spec 147's but these are rare and you can get a high spec 156 for similar money. She doesn't care much about performance but likes the style/comfort of Alfa's. She doesn't do much mileage either.

    Does anyone have experience of fuel consumption and reliability of the 1.6's engine?

    I'm not expecting toyota levels of reliability but I know that the 1.8 Alfa engine likes head gaskets, is the 1.6 the same?

    I know they require a cambelt every 35k and like a bit of oil and that oil starvation will kill the valvegear.

    Anything else to worry about?

    Thanks all.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    Ferris wrote: »
    Potentially looking at a Alfa 156 1.6 for herself. We were looking for high spec 147's but these are rare and you can get a high spec 156 for similar money. She doesn't care much about performance but likes the style/comfort of Alfa's. She doesn't do much mileage either.

    Does anyone have experience of fuel consumption and reliability of the 1.6's engine?

    I'm not expecting toyota levels of reliability but I know that the 1.8 Alfa engine likes head gaskets, is the 1.6 the same?

    I know they require a cambelt every 35k and like a bit of oil and that oil starvation will kill the valvegear.

    Anything else to worry about?

    Thanks all.


    At the end of the day every car has reliability issues. I owned a Seat and and a VW and both were riddled with problems. People will tell you however VW is a great reliable brand. :mad:

    I own an Alfa GT which has the 1.9JTD engine. IMO the only way to go is the JTD. Great grunt out of it and its still fuel efficient.

    What sort of money are you looking at spending OP??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    You've covered the majority of issues there, cam belts were the bug bear of all Alfa petrol engines, they need to be changed well ahead of the recommended intervals and the oil needs to be watched (they burn a little, it's ok).

    The suspension bushes wear over time (faster than other makes) but they're cheap to buy and easy to fit. (you'll know if you drive over a speed bump and hear a squeak).

    Can't think of much more than that, I've had a JTDM 156 for over a year (20k miles) and it's been rock solid, I'd recommend the diesel to anyone, it's held up better than a Passat, A3, BMW and a Landcruiser all bought around the same time and covered similar mileage.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    At the end of the day every car has reliability issues. I owned a Seat and and a VW and both were riddled with problems. People will tell you however VW is a great reliable brand. :mad:

    I own an Alfa GT which has the 1.9JTD engine. IMO the only way to go is the JTD. Great grunt out of it and its still fuel efficient.

    What sort of money are you looking at spending OP??

    Thanks for the reply and I hear you on the VW reliability woes.

    I've heard that the JTD is a great engine but herself only does about 4k miles p.a. so a small petrol engine is all she needs especially for the road tax. I'm also a big believer that diesels need motorway miles to keep them right and she would rarely do that.

    I suppose we will spend about 6k which will get a very nicely spec'ed 04-05 156.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    bladespin wrote: »
    The suspension bushes wear over time (faster than other makes) but they're cheap to buy and easy to fit. (you'll know if you drive over a speed bump and hear a squeak).

    Thanks, was aware that the bushes wear on the 147 but not that the 156 is the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    Would you not consider the GT or does it have to be 4 door??


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Would you not consider the GT or does it have to be 4 door??

    She does like the GT but they are a fair bit more expensive and the smallest engine is the 1.8. Also I already own a coupe so the flexibility of 4 doors would be useful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Ferris wrote: »
    Thanks, was aware that the bushes wear on the 147 but not that the 156 is the same.


    Pretty sure they share parts, replacement items are cheap, always used Jamie Porter in the UK.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    bladespin wrote: »
    You've covered the majority of issues there, cam belts were the bug bear of all Alfa petrol engines, they need to be changed well ahead of the recommended intervals and the oil needs to be watched (they burn a little, it's ok).

    The suspension bushes wear over time (faster than other makes) but they're cheap to buy and easy to fit. (you'll know if you drive over a speed bump and hear a squeak).

    Can't think of much more than that, I've had a JTDM 156 for over a year (20k miles) and it's been rock solid, I'd recommend the diesel to anyone, it's held up better than a Passat, A3, BMW and a Landcruiser all bought around the same time and covered similar mileage.

    Not quite right there. Yes they are cheap to buy, but to actually change them you'll have to drop the subframe off, about 3-4 hrs of work. My 1.6 is actually quite sick at the moment :( She's going in thursday for a bit of surgery. Mpg figures depends really on how she's driven. I get around 30-35 mpg but I don't drive her that often. With the Tsparks the main thing is NEVER allow them to run out of oil. Sparkplugs have to be changed at 60k. Timing belts + waterpump + variator every 32k or 3 years (whichever comes first). The Air flow meter (Bosch) tends to be very problematic, I'm on my third one now. Again with the suspension parts if it's a squeaking behind the dash, that tends to be the top wishbones, and if you hear a knocking around the pedals that usually it's a anti roll bar bushes or anti roll bar links. Also the sump plugs are really delicate in the hands of a normal mechanic. E.g Advance pit stop knackered my sump plug. Other than that if it's serviced regularly and taken care of they are as reliable as any other car make.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    Sorry wrong info. Timing belt is 36k or 3 years ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    RobertM wrote: »
    Not quite right there. Yes they are cheap to buy, but to actually change them you'll have to drop the subframe off, about 3-4 hrs of work. My 1.6 is actually quite sick at the moment :( She's going in thursday for a bit of surgery. Mpg figures depends really on how she's driven. I get around 30-35 mpg but I don't drive her that often. With the Tsparks the main thing is NEVER allow them to run out of oil. Sparkplugs have to be changed at 60k. Timing belts + waterpump + variator every 32k or 3 years (whichever comes first). The Air flow meter (Bosch) tends to be very problematic, I'm on my third one now. Again with the suspension parts if it's a squeaking behind the dash, that tends to be the top wishbones, and if you hear a knocking around the pedals that usually it's a anti roll bar bushes or anti roll bar links. Also the sump plugs are really delicate in the hands of a normal mechanic. E.g Advance pit stop knackered my sump plug. Other than that if it's serviced regularly and taken care of they are as reliable as any other car make.

    Thanks for that, great to get some first hand knowledge.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭king_of_inismac


    not quite right there. Yes they are cheap to buy, but to actually change them you'll have to drop the subframe off, about 3-4 hrs of work. My 1.6 is actually quite sick at the moment She's going in thursday for a bit of surgery. Mpg figures depends really on how she's driven. I get around 30-35 mpg but I don't drive her that often. With the Tsparks the main thing is NEVER allow them to run out of oil. Sparkplugs have to be changed at 60k. Timing belts + waterpump + variator every 32k or 3 years (whichever comes first). The Air flow meter (Bosch) tends to be very problematic, I'm on my third one now. Again with the suspension parts if it's a squeaking behind the dash, that tends to be the top wishbones, and if you hear a knocking around the pedals that usually it's a anti roll bar bushes or anti roll bar links. Also the sump plugs are really delicate in the hands of a normal mechanic. E.g Advance pit stop knackered my sump plug. Other than that if it's serviced regularly and taken care of they are as reliable as any other car make.

    Everything here is spot on (I owned a 156 for several years).

    A few extra points:
    Headgasket on 156 only ever goes if the timing belt snaps (its actually quite common). You'll need to get the head properly skimmed.

    They all lose oil so you need to check levels weekly.

    Watch out for noisy tappets

    Check out the buyers guide here: www.alfaowners.co.uk.
    If the car passes that, you should be okay.

    By the way, expect the resale value to be almost nil.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    Here's a basic guide as well for Alfa buyers

    http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_156_buyers.shtml


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    RobertM wrote: »
    Not quite right there. Yes they are cheap to buy, but to actually change them you'll have to drop the subframe off, about 3-4 hrs of work.

    I'd make a call to your garage, there's no need to remove the subframe to fit new bushings, fitted both front and rear sets to mine without removing it.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    To do the job properly you have to drop the subframe to get the bar out. And if you doubt the best mechanic for Alfa's in Dublin, the you've serviced the car wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Hotwheels


    Ran a 2004 156 1.6 for two years, covered about 45K, no major problems. Does about 33-35MPG, less if you push on a bit..

    Just watch oil level, they have a sweet tooth, and is normal for them... :)

    They are a nice car, good luck in the hunt

    Another good site for info is http://www.alfaowner.com


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    RobertM wrote: »
    To do the job properly you have to drop the subframe to get the bar out. And if you doubt the best mechanic for Alfa's in Dublin, the you've serviced the car wrong.

    What bar? I'm not doubting any mechanic but you don't have to remover any bar to replace the wishbones or radius arms (those are the bushings that wore).

    Edit. wasn't servicing the car, just fitting new bushes:
    Followed this http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_wishbone_replacement.shtml
    and http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_radius_arm.shtml
    Didn't take anything near 4 hours.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    Everything here is spot on (I owned a 156 for several years).

    A few extra points:
    Headgasket on 156 only ever goes if the timing belt snaps (its actually quite common). You'll need to get the head properly skimmed.

    They all lose oil so you need to check levels weekly.

    Watch out for noisy tappets

    Check out the buyers guide here: www.alfaowners.co.uk.
    If the car passes that, you should be okay.

    By the way, expect the resale value to be almost nil.

    All in all a pile of sh!te then ! :p;)

    Sorry Alfisti , much as I love them myself there's not a hope in hell I'd advise someone to buy one. Great to look at but then again so are supermodels. The only advantage with the supermodel would be it breaks down less often and costs less to keep.

    OP , Unless you're handy with the tools and have lots of spare time and cash , my advice is stay well away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    1. Undo the bolts securing the anti-roll bar to the front suspension crossmember.
    2. Undo the bolts (2a) and the nuts (2b) fixing the gear lever and handbrake lever mount.
    3. Undo the bolts fixing the power assisted steering box to the front suspension crossmember.
    4. Position a hydraulic jack under the crossmember.
    5. Undo the rear bolt securing the front suspension to the bodyshell.
    6. Undo the side bolts securing the front suspension to the bodyshell.
    Lower the hydraulic jack with the front suspension beam as necessary.


    1. Undo the nuts (1a) and remove the joints (1b).


    Lower the front suspension crossmember further leaving it secured only to the track control arms.
    1. Remove the anti-roll bar assembly.




    Correct procedure. The bushes on the anti roll bar are attached to the bar and in order to change them you have to take the whole antiroll bar out.

    suspensions4.jpg(Eibach front + rear anti roll bar for a 156 with bushes)

    Tell me how are you going to change the bushes that are attached to the anti roll bar without taking it out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    All in all a pile of sh!te then ! :p;)

    Sorry Alfisti , much as I love them myself there's not a hope in hell I'd advise someone to buy one. Great to look at but then again so are supermodels. The only advantage with the supermodel would be it breaks down less often and costs less to keep.

    OP , Unless you're handy with the tools and have lots of spare time and cash , my advice is stay well away.

    I can only presume you have owned one and had a bad experience because theres no way you would think about concluding that they were "piles of s*** and that you need loads of spare time and cash" otherwise eh.

    That said if you have gone just on here say which as I said I'd be surprised I'd say all in all a completely pointless post there Saab Ed and no help whatsoever to the OP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    RobertM wrote: »
    Tell me how are you going to change the bushes that are attached to the anti roll bar without taking it out.


    Thanks for that but as I mentioned above, it was the wishbones and rear arms that needed changing (not the anti roll bars they were fine), guess I done it correctly then :P

    Sorry for the confusion, should have been a little more precise in my terminology, though JP did say the wishbone and rads were the most common issue.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭A-Trak


    I bought a used 156 a couple of years ago based on info I got from starting a thread here.

    Alias No. 9 made this post on being a prospective Alfa owner.
    I literally printed it out and brought it with me when view cars.

    One of the best bits of advice I've seen on buying a used Alfa.

    (BTW I still have and drive the 156, only problems I've had are usual wear and tear I've experienced with any car. Bloody love driving it as well :))

    Oh & I'd highly reccomend Gerry in TI autos as well, nice guy and brilliant Alfa mechanic.
    Well worth running any prospective purchase by him, (Or any good mechanic either)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    bladespin wrote: »
    Thanks for that but as I mentioned above, it was the wishbones and rear arms that needed changing (not the anti roll bars they were fine), guess I done it correctly then :P

    Sorry for the confusion, should have been a little more precise in my terminology, though JP did say the wishbone and rads were the most common issue.

    Should've been more specific then :pac: Yes for the wishbone and rear arms you don't need to take out the subframe, but it's quite a fiddly job to do it.
    A-Trak wrote: »
    I bought a used 156 a couple of years ago based on info I got from starting a thread here.

    Alias No. 9 made this post on being a prospective Alfa owner.
    I literally printed it out and brought it with me when view cars.

    One of the best bits of advice I've seen on buying a used Alfa.

    (BTW I still have and drive the 156, only problems I've had are usual wear and tear I've experienced with any car. Bloody love driving it as well :))

    Oh & I'd highly reccomend Gerry in TI autos as well, nice guy and brilliant Alfa mechanic.
    Well worth running any prospective purchase by him, (Or any good mechanic either)

    My car is with Gerry on Thursday as well. Have to say he's a gentleman to deal with and very honest about the car's needs. He won't replace parts on the car that don't need to be replaced, and also sometimes he also keeps the used parts to show you what was wrong. No one in Dublin does a better job than him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    RobertM wrote: »
    Should've been more specific then :pac: Yes for the wishbone and rear arms you don't need to take out the subframe, but it's quite a fiddly job to do it.


    You're telling me, these things look so simple in the pictures, never quite works out that way when pates are covered in muck, corroded in place etc. :D Still got it done, perversely enjoyed doing it :confused:
    They're easy enough cars to work on really (well compared to some other Alfas).

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭king_of_inismac


    They're easy enough cars to work on really (well compared to some other Alfas).

    I'd emphasise the "compared to some other alfas bit".

    I did upper and lower wishbones (with a mate who's a mechanic) and it was a nightmare, even with a lift.

    Also, about replacing the ARBs, I was told by a specialist alfa mechanic that you're much better off replacing the entire bar, rather than just replacing the bushings.

    MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE FOR BUYING AN ALFA: If you have to go to a mechanic every time a light comes on the dash, or there's a squeak from the suspension, please buy another marque!


    Also, a good place to get parts is www.ebspares.co.uk - a fraction of the cost compared to the dealers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    I can only presume you have owned one and had a bad experience because theres no way you would think about concluding that they were "piles of s*** and that you need loads of spare time and cash" otherwise eh.
    .

    Owned them , worked on them , bought them , sold them , laughed as friends ones went bang , laughed harder at trade friends losing their b0ll0cks on them ....where does it end really.

    Look Alfa lovers out there , I get why you love them ( same reason I love my old Saab probably ) they're different , they look great and they become more than just a set of wheels , you really can love them . But stop defending whats not defendable here . Alfas are not bullit proof , although there's lots of pub talk about Alfas ( lots of which is bull ) everybody cant be wrong. There's a reason they have a poor rep and its because they're soft ...end off.

    And the worst bit is - unlike Alfas of old that drove fantastic or sounded like mechanical sex - modern Alfas dont sound or even drive well compared to other main stream motors. Yeah sure a 156 still looks fantastic but a 1600 wouldn't pull sh!te off a shovel , a 1.6 Focus is quicker FFS.

    Dont mean to Alfa bash , as I said im a fan at heart , I just wouldnt recomend one to someone , thats all ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    RobertM wrote: »
    Should've been more specific then :pac: Yes for the wishbone and rear arms you don't need to take out the subframe, but it's quite a fiddly job to do it.



    My car is with Gerry on Thursday as well. Have to say he's a gentleman to deal with and very honest about the car's needs. He won't replace parts on the car that don't need to be replaced, and also sometimes he also keeps the used parts to show you what was wrong. No one in Dublin does a better job than him.

    I use Auto Maintanence in Finglas. Alfa specialist. Lee and Ciaran are great guys to deal with same as above will show you parts that are worn/broken if you want and give you a reason why they're doing what they're doing.
    Plus its an Alfa Dealer/Repair shop so your service history is on their headed paper which is nice for resale imo.
    Reason I used them originally though above Gerry was they're in Finglas where I work :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Owned them , worked on them , bought them , sold them , laughed as friends ones went bang , laughed harder at trade friends losing their b0ll0cks on them ....where does it end really.

    Fair enough saab ed you seem to know what your on about so.

    You can understand from my point of view the amount of rubbish I hear people talking about Alfas who dont have a clue what they're on about but believe just as someone else said it must be true and then think the right thing to do is bad mouth them off to someone else?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭RobertM


    Fair enough saab ed you seem to know what your on about so.

    You can understand from my point of view the amount of rubbish I hear people talking about Alfas who dont have a clue what they're on about but believe just as someone else said it must be true and then think the right thing to do is bad mouth them off to someone else?!

    It's better to ignore people that are slating alfa's (not saab ed, as he seems to know what's he on about) but others in general that have no idea how an alfa works, instead talking crap about them. 1 year of ownership and 0 breakdowns or nasty surprises says a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE FOR BUYING AN ALFA: If you have to go to a mechanic every time a light comes on the dash, or there's a squeak from the suspension, please buy another marque!

    I'm reasonably handy if i'm honest, well able to fiddle about before giving up and crying to a proper mechanic
    Saab Ed wrote: »
    And the worst bit is - unlike Alfas of old that drove fantastic or sounded like mechanical sex - modern Alfas dont sound or even drive well compared to other main stream motors. Yeah sure a 156 still looks fantastic but a 1600 wouldn't pull sh!te off a shovel , a 1.6 Focus is quicker FFS.

    I hear you but the drive isn't important, its for the missus, looking good and soft leather take priority instead. Besides if you're going to sit on the hard shoulder you might as well be stylish and comfortable icon10.gif

    Thanks for all the comments lads. Its good to bounce these ideas off people who know.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    RobertM wrote: »
    It's better to ignore people that are slating alfa's (not saab ed, as he seems to know what's he on about) but others in general that have no idea how an alfa works, instead talking crap about them. 1 year of ownership and 0 breakdowns or nasty surprises says a lot.


    Yup, brother in law said I was mad buying an Afla, that they were absolute rubbish, the same guy's been through a gearbox and a turbo on his Avensis and later admitted (after much slagging) that he'd never even driven an Alfa.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational




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