Underground House

agrostar · 13-09-2010 11:25pm #1

Hey there just wondering if anyone here could offer me any advice on planning restrictions and requirements for building an earth-sheltered house.
I am currently in the process of purchasing a site subject to planning approval. The site for the house is located overlooking a regional road facing a small village so as to not to obscure the landscape with a bungalow or domer type house I was thinking that an underground house might work well here as it would minimise the visual affect of the building on the surrounding countryside. The front of the house would likely be glazed the full length of the building as it would be south-west facing to maximise any solar heat gain and for the best views from the house.All building would be done to engineers and recommended specifications as i know there would be much pressure on the retaining walls and earth covered roof. I wouldnt like either of them to fall in:D:D
My main query is:
Would it gain any favour or merit with the planning authority to build an eco-friendly house that would have minimal affect on the surrounding landscape and view?
Has anyone here ever built or have any experience of an earth-sheltered house?

I would greatly appreciate all input from anyone on this matter i am in the process of looking for an engineer but i would like to have as much homework as possible done myself.
Thanks for ye're time..............

Mellor · 14-09-2010 2:25am

agrostar wrote: »

Hey there just wondering if anyone here could offer me any advice on planning restrictions and requirements for building an earth-sheltered house.

There are currently no planning regulations that deal with earth sheltered houses. There could be local policies, but I am not aware of any. Basically, its just another house, assessed on its own merits.

My main query is:
Would it gain any favour or merit with the planning authority to build an eco-friendly house that would have minimal affect on the surrounding landscape and view?

Really depends on the PA, and even the specific planner. It could be seen a great decision, or a terrible one.
What exactly will make it an eco-friendly house? Just becasue it has "earth" in the title doesn't make it eco.

Has anyone here ever built or have any experience of an earth-sheltered house?

It is something I am interestign in, and have always considered it, have thoguht about a few of th tricky areas and tried to resolve the issues (in theory), however I have never been involved with one. I would really lile to at one stage.

how do you suggest to deal with the roof? This is the trickiest area imo.

No6 · 14-09-2010 5:37pm

I too like the idea of earth sheltered houses but I don't think you'd get one through planning in Mayo, they have a bee in their bonnet over excessive excavation on sloping sites with over 1m being considered excessive (mad I know but true) so if other LA's are opperating similar poilices beware!!

agrostar · 14-09-2010 7:47pm

Cheers No6 hopefully the PA's here in the Southeast won't be as bad:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thanks Mellor good to hear there are similar planning requirements for these buildings hopefully it might be accessed on its merits and with an open mind by the local authority;);)

What exactly will make it an eco-friendly house? Just becasue it has "earth" in the title doesn't make it eco.
Yeah i understand what your saying alright but i was thinking about installing a rainwater harvesting system, underfloor heating with either a ground source heat pump or an air to air type system. The three earth covered walls would be super insulated to make the building as energy efficent as possible and to compensate for the wall of glass on the south facing elevation of the building. The glass would also be the best that would perform in the conditions. I would also install a solar hot water system.I dont think it is a viabel option to install either photoelectric solar panels or a wind turbine as the payback on these often takes too long and i would like to see the technology devolop further before investing such money in these alternatives.
how do you suggest to deal with the roof? This is the trickiest area imo.
Was going to construct the building from concrete. Either form the walls with shuttering or use Insulated Concrete Formwork. The roof i was hoping to construct out of concrete again to either use pre-stressed concrete panels with a top skin of concrete to seal it all in or to form the whole lot from concrete and seal it with a waterproof membrane.

I no concrete isn't what you would call an eco friendly material and this type of build would use alot of it. Another reason i would use concrete is its a material i would know and work with all the time from pouring bases and forming concrete tanks and walls on an agricultural basis.

MidlandsM · 14-09-2010 7:53pm

There's a Grand Designs episode featuring a house built into the ground - it must be online somewhere.

edit - here ya go.
http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/grand-designs/episode-guides/cumbria-the-underground-house-08-06-03_p_1.html

agrostar · 14-09-2010 9:10pm

MidlandsM wrote: »

There's a Grand Designs episode featuring a house built into the ground - it must be online somewhere.

edit - here ya go.
http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/grand-designs/episode-guides/cumbria-the-underground-house-08-06-03_p_1.html

Yeah seen that episode alright wouldnt be gone on the design but there was alot of helpful information in it brand new series of Grand Designs starting on More4 tomorrow i think(hope:rolleyes::rolleyes:). Actually think it was the first time i ever seen a house being built into the ground. The theory seems ok just exploring the option of earth-sheltered houses as i reckon its possibly the only kind of construction i would get away with on this site.
Sorry prob should of said before but the house would be single storey, exposed face fully glazed, so when you would look at it alls that would be seen would be a wall of glass 2.4m in height X 20m in length approx.

RKQ · 14-09-2010 9:26pm

agrostar wrote: »

Cheers No6 hopefully the PA's here in the Southeast won't be as bad:rolleyes::rolleyes:

All Planning applications should be accessed on its merits and with an open mind by the local authority.

This idea that "one size fits all" or "bungalow bliss heaven" results is carbon copy poor design which is a poor reflection on our planning system. There are many Planners that appreciate good design. And if we are serious about Global warming then We must embrace this type of building.

http://www.evekushner.com/img/post/WellsRavenRocks2.jpg
Some Planners in the south east appreciate contempory design.
Good luck.

Mellor · 15-09-2010 6:37am

agrostar wrote: »

Yeah i understand what your saying alright but i was thinking about installing a rainwater harvesting system, underfloor heating with either a ground source heat pump or an air to air type system. The three earth covered walls would be super insulated to make the building as energy efficent as possible and to compensate for the wall of glass on the south facing elevation of the building. The glass would also be the best that would perform in the conditions. I would also install a solar hot water system.I dont think it is a viabel option to install either photoelectric solar panels or a wind turbine as the payback on these often takes too long and i would like to see the technology devolop further before investing such money in these alternatives.

Excellant, I agree with everything there.
I wanted to here you own thoughts first, looks like you've been thinking it through.

Was going to construct the building from concrete. Either form the walls with shuttering or use Insulated Concrete Formwork. The roof i was hoping to construct out of concrete again to either use pre-stressed concrete panels with a top skin of concrete to seal it all in or to form the whole lot from concrete and seal it with a waterproof membrane.

Personall, I would lean towards prestressed concrete, with a top skin of concrete (screed) AND a waterproof membrane.

The main issue I foresee with the roof is that seeing as its trafficable, and likely has, for want of a better word, pedestrian access. There is issue with guarding to the front edge where there would be a significant level change.

Compliance with building regs requires a guarding here. consider this early, as a late solution, in order to get certs may end up being a steel railing. Hardly ideal.

MidlandsM wrote: »

There's a Grand Designs episode featuring a house built into the ground - it must be online somewhere.

Not a great example imo, it came across a two story house placed into the ground, rather than an earth sheltered house design to fit the site.

MidlandsM · 15-09-2010 12:14pm

Mellor wrote: »

Not a great example imo, it came across a two story house placed into the ground, rather than an earth sheltered house design to fit the site.

I'll not bother my hole posting anything again so to help someones query?!?!:rolleyes:

musiccollab · 15-09-2010 12:42pm

saw this thread and thought of this..... maybe not relevant but it does highlight how far this can be pushed...... http://www.archdaily.com/73831/earth-house-bcho-architects/

A south westerly facing facade will also need a significant amount of sun shading to limit heat gain rather than actually using it to maximize heat gain unless you are using trombe walls or double skinned facades for recirculating etc..

I personally would not be interested in a house buried under an earth berm as the buildings interaction with the site is totally artificial then rather than having a proper grounding in its site. you then also have issues that all spaces are top light.

just my 2 cents anyway.

muffler · 15-09-2010 12:44pm

MidlandsM wrote: »

I'll not bother my hole posting anything again so to help someones query?!?!:rolleyes:

With an attitude like that perhaps you have made the right decision.

agrostar · 15-09-2010 1:59pm

musiccollab wrote: »

saw this thread and thought of this..... maybe not relevant but it does highlight how far this can be pushed...... http://www.archdaily.com/73831/earth-house-bcho-architects/

A south westerly facing facade will also need a significant amount of sun shading to limit heat gain rather than actually using it to maximize heat gain unless you are using trombe walls or double skinned facades for recirculating etc..

I personally would not be interested in a house buried under an earth berm as the buildings interaction with the site is totally artificial then rather than having a proper grounding in its site. you then also have issues that all spaces are top light.

just my 2 cents anyway.

Thanks for your reply, the south facing elevation would have the roof overhanging to provide some shading to reduce solar heat gain. Missed it above but would definitly make the house as airtight as possible and use a heat recovery ventilation system.
The thought of burying the house undergroung isn't really what appeals to me either, there are waterproofing issues, issues with getting natural light to the rear of the building and as said here before there would be safety issues at the front of the building where a safety rail would have to be fitted.
Was thinking of maybe just having a green-roof, sloping the roof(single lean-to) at the same slope as the field so from the distance it would blend with the surrounding field yet be detatched from the bank at the rear of the building. All this would mean would be to slope the bank at the rear or build a retaining wall. The main reason im thinking of going this route is that there is a great view from the site and i believe the area i plan on building has been outlined as an area of natural beauty:rolleyes::rolleyes:

agrostar · 15-09-2010 2:04pm

MidlandsM wrote: »

I'll not bother my hole posting anything again so to help someones query?!?!:rolleyes:

Hey midlandsm thanks for your reply all replies are always welcome, I dont think Mellor meant to offend anyone he might of thought it wasnt the best example of an underground (earth-shelterd) house.;)

Mellor · 15-09-2010 3:02pm

agrostar wrote: »

Hey midlandsm thanks for your reply all replies are always welcome, I dont think Mellor meant to offend anyone he might of thought it wasnt the best example of an underground (earth-shelterd) house.;)

Exactly, I was critising the design of the house, I have no idea why Midlands took offense to this, he didn't design it, but to be honest if that's his attitude, and he no longer bothers his hole posting, then so be it

MidlandsM · 15-09-2010 3:45pm

muffler wrote: »

With an attitude like that perhaps you have made the right decision.

Mellor wrote: »

Exactly, I was critising the design of the house, I have no idea why Midlands took offense to this, he didn't design it, but to be honest if that's his attitude, and he no longer bothers his hole posting, then so be it

typical Mod replies that beset's and ruins forums for many....maybe look at your own attitudes before drawing conclusions Mods and seek to clarify posts like the way Agroster did.

muffler · 15-09-2010 4:07pm

MidlandsM wrote: »

typical Mod replies that beset's and ruins forums for many....maybe look at your own attitudes before drawing conclusions Mods and seek to clarify posts like the way Agroster did.

No conclusions drawn on my part. Your post is still there unedited. Maybe you should clarify your thoughts in your own head first before posting. It isnt my duty to mind read here.

If you wish to continue posting here then I suggest that your attitude improves somewhat from what I have seen above.

Thats the end of this matter as everyone needs to get back on topic.

Mellor · 15-09-2010 6:37pm

What exactly should I have seeked clarification on?
You linked to a earth sheltered house from grand designs, that's fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with that post in the slightest. It's a famous example and it was obviously a good idea to refer the OP to the episode. Issues within are going yo be relevant to him.

I commented on the design of the house. I stand by my comments. It was not a hugely successful design in my opinion. Agroster, in agreement or not, understood my point.

Then you posted a bit of a moan about how you won't bother your hole again etc, I still have no idea what upset you? Because I don't like that paticular house. Your first post was helpful, the next two are pointless.

Anyway, Agroster, have you researched/sourced many other earth shrlteted houses, I'd be interested in having a look if you have

agrostar · 15-09-2010 9:31pm

Hey there again was thinking about a similar design to this building:).

http://www.trendir.com/house-design/contemporary-home-complements-1.html#more

Mellor · 17-09-2010 3:02am

V.nice

doctorjohn · 18-09-2010 10:29am

Is it not self evident that to bury a house in the ground that you have to bother a hole?

dannnny · 10-10-2010 9:11pm

how about this one?
http://www.future-systems.com/architecture/architecture_10.html#.

20m is a long sheet of glass to stick in the landscape, consider breaking it up by staggering it or making it change direction slightly, or sections shaded by timbers louvres. In terms of persuading planners go into the offices and talk to them face to face about your ideas, or if you're scared that they'll say no then get an architect to make some pretty models/ artists impressions to woo them.

galwaytt · 11-10-2010 12:57pm

I visited a development of earth-sheltered houses in Norfolk, UK, and got to see a finished one as well.

A couple of things came out of it:

1. Huge amount of concrete. Forgetting everything else about the material, it was a big expense. Ditto the amount of XPS used between the structure and the landscape.
2. Houses were 'shallow', otherwise they would be very dark at the rear. Long and skinny works best. Will this work on your site ?
3. The more 'conventional' your finishes inside (timber floors etc etc), the worse it performed, as they effectively insulated the living space from the structure. Ditto for built-in furniture (for same reason - blocking the wall area).
4. Roof is awkward (read: expensive) to detail correctly at facades/reveals etc, and to control bridging.
5. In the house I visited, it had passive ventilation, so had lots of vents over doors etc..........how would you propose to handle ventilation ?
6. Every person in the house is worth 60w. Apparently !

He didn't have a figure for the (large) cats !
7. He ended up putting in a stove in the sitting room, afterwards.
8. I'd imagine finished build costs to be high, as even if you get a 'deal' on the concrete, the volume of it is large. And, there's so much specialised stuff like the XPS and tanking process, and roofing process.......

agrostar · 11-10-2010 9:12pm

Hey Galway thanks for your reply dont really no what is happening with regards possibly going underground with the house. Was talking to two engineers who said it would be very difficult to get any planning on the proposed site whatever the design and if i choose to apply i should be prepared for a long fight only to possibly be refused in the end:(:( So at the moment i am contemplating what to do the site is in the ideal location that i wish to live i agree with what your saying it is going to be an expensive build with all the concrete and underground waterproofing that would be required. Only thing that would be a positive is that i work with mass concrete most of the time with work so i should be able to cast the foundations, floors and walls myself hopefully making a decent saving for myself there:):)

agrostar · 11-10-2010 9:26pm

dannnny wrote: »

how about this one?
http://www.future-systems.com/architecture/architecture_10.html#.

20m is a long sheet of glass to stick in the landscape, consider breaking it up by staggering it or making it change direction slightly, or sections shaded by timbers louvres. In terms of persuading planners go into the offices and talk to them face to face about your ideas, or if you're scared that they'll say no then get an architect to make some pretty models/ artists impressions to woo them.

Hey dannnny thanks for getting the discussion going again, was thinking about a contempary type design was also thinking that the glass might mirror the surrounding landscape. Still unsure as of what to do with house design as still in the design process or whether or not this would be a suitable site for a house.

dannnny · 11-10-2010 11:43pm

a normal wall of glass will just reflect glare, have a look at this house, the glass is reflective and slants outward, kind of makes it disappear - http://constructireland.ie/Vol-3-Issue-9/Articles/Sustainable-Building-Technology/Ethereal-Leitrim-eco-house-enhances-the-local-environment.html try talkin to a good architect about the planning.
also check out percolation you dont want to design the house and then realise there's nowhere for the sewage to go. if it ever gets drawn up/built be sure to post it, good luck!

Underground House

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