THIS SUMS UP WHY LIMERICK IS THE WAY IT IS!

zing zong

IT'S the original suburban horror movie where some well-known, loosely connected criminal collective, designated 'a family', can move into that three-bedroom semi-d, right next door to you. Effectively free, gratis, and for nothing.

The buy-to-let landlord is only delighted to be getting the government money, so even if you track him down -- and, by the way, under the Data Protection Scheme, the Health Service Executive (HSE) is under no obligation to give you his identity -- then he's probably not going to be that concerned with what his tenants get up to. Oh! And he doesn't live on the estate himself; he lives out near one of the golf clubs.

Welcome to Limerick, where a manifestly unfair and counterproductive system is busy working its way towards its squalid, inexorable conclusion.
The only people who can be surprised by Barry Duggan's article today are the kind of people who express surprise when a dead rat starts to smell. What did we expect? How did we think this was going to turn out?

Through a genuine impulse to do the right thing, and under a ceaseless barrage of half-baked yapping from 'socially concerned' commentators, we have actually managed to construct a state-supported housing system that is dizzying in its complexity but unwaveringly simple in its core message.
And the core message is this: not alone will you not be punished for making your neighbours' lives a waking nightmare, but if you know how to play the system -- and there'll always be somebody to advise you on that -- then you can actually live in a nicer house in a nicer neighbourhood by making your neighbours' lives a waking misery.
Of course, it won't stay a nicer house in a nicer neighbourhood for very long; you'll see to that. But that doesn't matter either, 'cos you'll just troop down to the HSE with the eviction order and the bristling sense of entitlement and Hey Presto!

A whole new estate to terrify, a whole new house to let slowly degenerate into the kind of fetid eyesore that will accelerate the flight of your new neighbours.
The same demoralised and resigned neighbours whose taxes are paying for your campaign of low-level terror, front- door confrontation ("Did you tell my Wayne to get out of your ******* garden, you****!"), the late-night screaming and pyjama-clad, breakfast-roll indolence.
It must have taken some doing to actually come up with the system we have. But fair play to us, we managed it.

We might not want to think about what constitutes anti-social behaviour in Limerick's worst estates -- I'm guessing that bar is set fairly high (should that be low?) and let's be honest here: you'd have to be going some distance to attract the frowns of the residents' committee in Southill. The problem in Limerick is that whole swathes of middle-class and traditionally strong, supportive, working-class areas are getting a chance to see Southill standards of anti-social activities up close and personal. As in, right next door.
The HSE's staggeringly unaccountable rental supplement system has seen to that. Add to that the strangely opaque housing policy being operated by the Limerick regeneration scheme and you end up with a lot of justified hysteria in Wisteria lanes.

The very existence of the Limerick regeneration scheme is testament to the most stunning failure of a local authority in the history of this state.
There simply is no other instance where the neglect of the officials and elected persons reached such a pitch of dark perfection that four large districts containing populations running to tens of thousands were declared -- by the State itself -- to be so broken that the only alternative was to destroy them and start all over again. They were socially, economically and criminally beyond repair.

Having presided over the abandonment of those people, the State was obliged to come to their rescue and fix the environments that had been so disgracefully neglected by its servants. They had to do it and most Limerick people welcome the decision and the implicit signal that -- this time around -- somebody's going to be sticking around to keep an eye on things.

The real damage was done decades ago and the resultant disaster is beyond any bureaucratic tinkering we can try, beginning next Monday.
But the anti-social problems that come through the HSE rentals and from Limerick City Council's own tenants are, if anything, even more depressing in that they're happening right now. Today. And they are amenable to bureaucratic tinkering. They are not past the point of rescue. They can be fixed, if we have the will.
But that's the Million Dollar Question, isn't it? Do we have the will?

If you indulge, or your kids indulge, in a systematic campaign against a neighbour or neighbours, and you defy verbal warnings to cease that behaviour, and you defy a final written warning to cease that behaviour -- and if state funds are involved at any point in your accommodation process -- then I think you should be evicted. And what's more, I think that action should signal the end of the state's obligation to house you.
We tried. We tried again. You wouldn't listen. You're out. Not our problem anymore.






http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/cathal-maccarthy-state-has-to-stop-housing-these-antisocial-thugs-2335136.html

TestTransmission

Any chance of a summary from someone?

Blackjack

Scumbags get free housing, and make their neighbours lives a misery.

The State will always, always, pay to house and keep these poeple, and Tax money pays for this.

Once you've been evicted from State Accommodation once, you should not get a second chance - once you're out, you should stay out.

TestTransmission

Blackjack wrote: »

Scumbags get free housing, and make their neighbours lives a misery.

The State will always, always, pay to house and keep these poeple, and Tax money pays for this.

Once you've been evicted from State Accommodation once, you should not get a second chance - once you're out, you should stay out.

Yah,that makes sense alrite.

Thanks Blackjack

banie01

I don't always agree with Cathal McCarthys political viewpoint but I must say I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment expressed in this piece.

A line does eventually have to be drawn whereby problem tenants are no longer recycled through new homes, inflicting their dysfunctionality on an ever increasing number of neighbours/estates!!

If someone is evicted for anti-social behaviour they should lose any and all entitlement to any further Social housing/Rent allowance.
Make people responsible for their actions and understand the consequences of their own heinous actions!

Itsdacraic

Blackjack wrote: »

Scumbags get free housing, and make their neighbours lives a misery.

The State will always, always, pay to house and keep these poeple, and Tax money pays for this.

Once you've been evicted from State Accommodation once, you should not get a second chance - once you're out, you should stay out.

Good story, but I've heard it before.

kilburn

Spose it now comes down to the cold facts.
What are the cowards in the Dail who are trying to protect their pensions going to do about it ? F*** all

Deacon

It is a long version of what I posted last week. Savages coming to a neighbourhood near you. Yes, he is on the money, it is quiet the horror movie. God bless the next generation of sociopaths, we all will encounter in every neighbourhood. There will be a chucky (problem child) in every second home.

When a fire is out of control, the strategy used is one of containment. Where we isolate the fire and build a firewall around it so it can burn itself out. Makes since right? On the otherhand and contrary to the containment of the fire arguement. We have a problem with violent families in Limerick. Our very own geniuses in our city council, instead of containing the problem. They spread the distruction about. (voilent destructive families are just like a fire out of control) We spread the problem out? Is it because the council wants them to wreak more havoc on the good people? or is it because these knitwits making policy have no life experience?

They screwed up the planning of Southill restricting the people of that area from all amenities and services. We seen what that place has produced in the past 30 years. Besides the lots and lots of wonderful people who made something of themselves. The place produced murderers galore and hostile media from Dublin and an ignorant Gardai who judged people from living there did not help also. The amadans down their are a walking catastrophy and bad decision after bad decision makes impacts on communities for decades to come. We need to make these clowns accountable.

Deacon

jbkenn

Deacon wrote: »

It is a long version of what I posted last week. Savages coming to a neighbourhood near you. Yes, he is on the money, it is quiet the horror movie. God bless the next generation of sociopaths, we all will encounter in every neighbourhood. There will be a chucky (problem child) in every second home.

Yes, he is on the money, but, what will we as a society, do about it?, answer, nothing, that's the reality, not my problem, and, when it does become my problem, I will wonder why nobody else is doing anything about it.

When a fire is out of control, the strategy used is one of containment. Where we isolate the fire and build a firewall around it so it can burn itself out. Makes since right? On the otherhand and contrary to the containment of the fire arguement. We have a problem with violent families in Limerick. Our very own geniuses in our city council, instead of containing the problem. They spread the distruction about. (voilent destructive families are just like a fire out of control) We spread the problem out? Is it because the council wants them to wreak more havoc on the good people? or is it because these knitwits making policy have no life experience?

These "knitwits" are faceless public servants answerable to no one, who live far away from these problem people, and, will never be personally discommoded by them, but..., what if we identified theses "knitwits", their home addresses, their phone numbers, what if we called them on the phone at 2 a.m. to inform them that the result of their handywork were driving their new neighbourhood to distraction, what if, when they had their phone number changed because of these nightly calls, we called personally to their home to bring them up to speed, how long do you think they would put up with it?.

They screwed up the planning of Southill restricting the people of that area from all amenities and services. We seen what that place has produced in the past 30 years. Besides the lots and lots of wonderful people who made something of themselves. The place produced murderers galore and hostile media from Dublin and an ignorant Gardai who judged people from living there did not help also. The amadans down their are a walking catastrophy and bad decision after bad decision makes impacts on communities for decades to come. We need to make these clowns accountable.

I don't buy into this argument at all, how was Southill restricted from all "amenities and services"?, how do you define "amenities and services" has it not got schools? a church?, locally based enterprise and recreational facilities?, have not millions of € been thrown at the place over the last 30 years?, when will enough be enough for Southill?

jbkenn

me_right_one

Death peno for being scum / scangery.

mike kelly

Southhill would not be anywhere near as bad as it is now were it not for the Caseys. Seems that they are also related to the people causing trouble in Fairview Crescent.

Raiser

Lets all sneak away and found 'New Limerick' - Let the Scum finish off what's left of the City they have been and still are utterly destroying in every respect......

Millie

I felt a little ill reading that as I have lived through the horror of scumbags living across from me and the terror and intimidation they radiate.

The "family" were so bad the Council admitted to me that they had been evicted twice from their houses and so were no longer going to be responsible for rehousing them so that door was closed in my face.

Then I approached the HSE who again told both me and my solicitor that it wasn't their responsibility and all they did was means test the "family" and hand them the rent to rent a private home.
Another door closed in my face.

It's a f*cking disgarce that I/you are funding these scumbags to live as they like without a cause and effect to them.

The "family" did eventually get moved....might I add to newer, bigger and better house......

AnCapaillMor

Said it before but the bro in law used work with the council and he could tell you some stories. His favourite is they get shown the new house, they say they don't like the kitchen doors etc and promptly get told to take what you're given by the council. Within the next few days, the house will be mysteriously broken into before they move, kitchen trashed or doors smashed and the council then approach and tell them there's been an accident now what type of kitchen\doors do you want.

mike kelly

Raiser wrote: »

Lets all sneak away and found 'New Limerick' - Let the Scum finish off what's left of the City they have been and still are utterly destroying in every respect......

"New Limerick" already exists. It is called Ennis. Lots of refugees from Limerick have made their way there over the last few years.

phill106

mike kelly wrote: »

"New Limerick" already exists. It is called Ennis. Lots of refugees from Limerick have made their way there over the last few years.

and shannon..

Henry Ford III

phill106 wrote: »

and shannon..

...and Murroe, and Newport.......

Raiser

Biological hazards, also known as Biohazards, refer to elements that pose a threat to the health of living organisms, primarily that of humans.

- Apart from the risks involving health and safety, I'm sure the long term feeling of pervasive misery, despair and depression take their toll on health and well being also......

zing zong

jbkenn wrote: »

These "knitwits" are faceless public servants answerable to no one, who live far away from these problem people, and, will never be personally discommoded by them, but..., what if we identified theses "knitwits", their home addresses, their phone numbers, what if we called them on the phone at 2 a.m. to inform them that the result of their handywork were driving their new neighbourhood to distraction, what if, when they had their phone number changed because of these nightly calls, we called personally to their home to bring them up to speed, how long do you think they would put up with it?.

you know, I think you're on the ball here. does anybody here know who the person(s) is that actually oversees this here in limerick? ( I dont mean the men and women in the office, but the one in charge over all) if we had names/faces to point to as accountable, it may shake things up a bit and make them consider a little bit harder how they do their job

talkingclock

I know one of the regeneration guys - he lives in the estate off Huntsfield Road. So your best bet would be a house in that area.

Raiser

What's to stop anyone buying something like this and then qualifying for a nice 3 Bed Semi in 6 months time once the greedy Regeneration Careerists (and their Nieces and Nephews) write you a cheque some lazy afternoon.....?

- Its a daft plan but its daft territory in all fairness!?!?!

mike kelly

Raiser wrote: »

What's to stop anyone buying something like this and then qualifying for a nice 3 Bed Semi in 6 months time once the greedy Regeneration Careerists (and their Nieces and Nephews) write you a cheque some lazy afternoon.....?

- Its a daft plan but its daft territory in all fairness!?!?!

is the system of allocating houses public? If you want a house under this scheme I'm sure that 10,000 euro in a brown envelope would suffice

kilburn

Hmmm maybe name and shame is the way to go

ILA

kilburn wrote: »

Hmmm maybe name and shame is the way to go

Legal reprecussions.

They'll either physically intimidate you, or they'll use legal means, funded by Free Legal Aid from the State, to get damages.

Raiser

kilburn wrote: »

Hmmm maybe name and shame is the way to go

Name and shame who though?

The Families who have been reported as abusing the Regeneration Scheme by employing Family Members, abusing perks, expenses our trust etc. or the Families using it to get free Houses?

- Where to start?

mike kelly

kilburn wrote: »

Hmmm maybe name and shame is the way to go

I assume you are referring to the officals who are housing these scumbags? Everyone knows who the scumbags themselves are.

kilburn

zing zong wrote: »

you know, I think you're on the ball here. does anybody here know who the person(s) is that actually oversees this here in limerick? ( I dont mean the men and women in the office, but the one in charge over all) if we had names/faces to point to as accountable, it may shake things up a bit and make them consider a little bit harder how they do their job

as above

mike kelly

well the regeneration agency is made up of the following people

Board Of Directors

Southside

Mr John Fitzgerald Chairperson Mr Brendan Kenny Chief Executive Officer Fr Pat Hogan Parish Priest Southside Ms Anne Kavanagh Manager, Paul Partnership Mr Liam McElligott Chief Executive, LEDP Ms. Mary Tully* Dept of Environment, Heritage and Local Government Mr Pat McSitric Dept of Education and Science Mr Pat Fitzgerald Health Services Executive Ms Kathleen Stack Dept of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Mr. Frank McGlynn* Dept of Social and Family Affairs Ms Michelle Shannon Dept of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mr Tom Mackey Limerick City Manager Mr Ned Gleeson Limerick County Manager Mr Alec Fleming Clare County Manager Mr. Gerard Mahon* Garda Chief Superintendent Ms. Ann Bourke Our Lady of Lourdes C.D.P Ms. Mary Donnelly F.A.S Northside

Mr John Fitzgerald Chairperson Mr Brendan Kenny Chief Executive Officer Mr. Paddy Flannery Moyross Community Enterprise Centre Ms Aine Cremin Principal, Corpus Christi NS Mr. Michael Tiernan Limerick Enterprise Network (L.E.N.) Ms. Mary Tully* Dept of Environment, Heritage and Local Government Mr Pat McSitric Dept of Education and Science Mr Pat Fitzgerald Health Services Executive Ms Kathleen Stack Dept of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Mr. Frank McGlynn* Dept of Social and Family Affairs Ms Michelle Shannon Dept of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mr Tom Mackey Limerick City Manager Mr Ned Gleeson Limerick County Manager Mr Alec Fleming Clare County Manager Mr. Gerard Mahon* Garda Chief Superintendent Ms.Nuala Kernan Community - St. Marys Ms. Mary Donnelly F.A.S * Ms. Mary Tully Replaced Mr. Eddie Lewis (sept. 09)
* Mr. Gerard Mahon Replaced Mr. William Keane (sept. 09)
* Mr. Frank McGlynn Replaced Ms. Mary Moloney (sept. 09)

mike kelly

some more interesting info on the Limerick regeneration agency

"Nepotism in Limerick
Closer to home, Villager was amused to see John Fitzgerald, former City Manager in Dublin getting himself and the Limerick Regeneration Agency, headed by former Dublin City Housing Manager, Brendan Kenny, in hot water for indulging nepotism to the serious displeasure of Limerick City Manager, Tom Mackey. Kenny employed his daughter on a large salary without bothering with anything as tedious as an interview process. Claire Feeney, girlfriend of Southside Director, Brendan Hayden, was recruited on a salary of €90,000 without competitive interview. She had no third-level or other relevant qualification. And Brian McElligott , son of Regeneration Agency Director, Liam McGelligott was recruited in Autumn 2007 without competitive interview. He had no third-level or other relevant qualification, thought the agency is now paying his way through a University of Limerick project-management course.
Fitzgerald noted that the Limerick Regeneration Agency didn’t have to comply with normal public-sector norms. Funny then that this is the same John Fitzgerald who so rigorously – including with the benefit of a fat legal opinion – hounded residents’ representatives on the Grangegorman Development Agency (which he also chairs) to comply with normal company law. They were not to report back to the communities that chose them but to observe the niceties of company law – i.e. silence. Fitzgerald reckons the Limerick agencies’ boards are “not boards of governance”.
Villager was amused too to see Jim Barrett resurfacing in Limerick.
Barrett, whose every post-democratic impulse (high-rise, no greenery, no functionality, no consultation, no community benefit – see for example O’Connell St’s spike) was wrong for Dublin where he famously worked very closely with Fitzgerald, is now benefiting from exorbitant per diem architectural-consultancy fees in Limerick. Fitzgerald puts the problems down to “destructive feuding” between Limerick development agencies. Fitzgerald says he “loves” the public service but they’ll need to do things properly in Limerick if they’re not to go the way of some of the more challenged of Dublin’s development authorities – like Docklands for example.
"

mike kelly

here is an interesting website - http://www.limerickregeneration.org/index.html

daveob007

This so called regeneration is a disgrace alright,,move the scum out and place them in estates where the people are hard working and decent,and all for free,while the rest of us get up and go to work for long hours just to meet ends meet.
Many decent areas have been ruined by this policy.
While I have no problem with decent people who want to help themselves and become normal being moved,I feel sick when I see scumbags moving into these areas,these people will never get up for work,just take take take from our tax payments,and walk around in their pyjamas giving us the 2 fingers.
The normal hard working people who obey the laws and pay their way have become the disavantaged in this new Limerick.

anti_c

:(I WAS BORN IN LIMERICK CITY. I ALWAYS STAND UP FOR LIMERICK CITY WHEN PEOPLE CUT IT DOWN ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. I BACK IT UP WHAT A FOOL" I WAS WHEN WE WHERE FORCED AND HOUNDED OUT OF HOME IN FAIRVIEW CRESTENT GARRYOWEN BY THIS EVIL" ANT_SOCIAL THUGS NO ONE WOULD HELP US THEY WHERE "IGNORING US LIMERICK CITY COUNCIL TRY TO COVER THIS UP WE ARE NOW HOMELESS .

zing zong

kilburn wrote: »

Hmmm maybe name and shame is the way to go

agreed

zing zong

mike kelly wrote: »

well the regeneration agency is made up of the following people

Board Of Directors

Southside

Mr John Fitzgerald Chairperson Mr Brendan Kenny Chief Executive Officer Fr Pat Hogan Parish Priest Southside Ms Anne Kavanagh Manager, Paul Partnership Mr Liam McElligott Chief Executive, LEDP Ms. Mary Tully* Dept of Environment, Heritage and Local Government Mr Pat McSitric Dept of Education and Science Mr Pat Fitzgerald Health Services Executive Ms Kathleen Stack Dept of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Mr. Frank McGlynn* Dept of Social and Family Affairs Ms Michelle Shannon Dept of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mr Tom Mackey Limerick City Manager Mr Ned Gleeson Limerick County Manager Mr Alec Fleming Clare County Manager Mr. Gerard Mahon* Garda Chief Superintendent Ms. Ann Bourke Our Lady of Lourdes C.D.P Ms. Mary Donnelly F.A.S Northside

Mr John Fitzgerald Chairperson Mr Brendan Kenny Chief Executive Officer Mr. Paddy Flannery Moyross Community Enterprise Centre Ms Aine Cremin Principal, Corpus Christi NS Mr. Michael Tiernan Limerick Enterprise Network (L.E.N.) Ms. Mary Tully* Dept of Environment, Heritage and Local Government Mr Pat McSitric Dept of Education and Science Mr Pat Fitzgerald Health Services Executive Ms Kathleen Stack Dept of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Mr. Frank McGlynn* Dept of Social and Family Affairs Ms Michelle Shannon Dept of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mr Tom Mackey Limerick City Manager Mr Ned Gleeson Limerick County Manager Mr Alec Fleming Clare County Manager Mr. Gerard Mahon* Garda Chief Superintendent Ms.Nuala Kernan Community - St. Marys Ms. Mary Donnelly F.A.S * Ms. Mary Tully Replaced Mr. Eddie Lewis (sept. 09)
* Mr. Gerard Mahon Replaced Mr. William Keane (sept. 09)
* Mr. Frank McGlynn Replaced Ms. Mary Moloney (sept. 09)

these need to be pressured to not let KNOWN anti social and CONVICTED criminals to be let back in after the (much needed) regen is done.

but who is the person(s) that allocate houses NOW in the city hall that couldn't give a damn (or maybe dont have the power to act on a damn if they do infact give a damn)??

zing zong

daveob007 wrote: »

This so called regeneration is a disgrace alright,,move the scum out and place them in estates where the people are hard working and decent,and all for free,while the rest of us get up and go to work for long hours just to meet ends meet.
Many decent areas have been ruined by this policy.
While I have no problem with decent people who want to help themselves and become normal being moved,I feel sick when I see scumbags moving into these areas,these people will never get up for work,just take take take from our tax payments,and walk around in their pyjamas giving us the 2 fingers.
The normal hard working people who obey the laws and pay their way have become the disavantaged in this new Limerick.

as long as you realise that not *everyone* in a regen area are scum, you make a good point.

the problem is, as the article i posted points out, is that the *scum* ( those being convicted *well known* criminals, and *well known* anti social people) are being afforded the same privileges as regular law abiding citizens, who may be down on their luck or disadvantaged, they are still law abiding citizens. and they are the *majority* of the folk that live in regen areas.

the problem is city hall not giving a damn

maggot12345

Buy to let landlords in county towns have a lot to answer for--they'll rent to ANYBODY as long as their pockets are lined while they themselves will live a few miles out from the town immune to the trouble their tenants cause. God help the person in a semi who lives next to these people. There aren't any laws or supports for people who go to work every day

---

all the supports, rights etc. seem to go to those who are happy to sponge off the state. The Government must change this as people, whole generations are being enabled to live in this way. All rights, rights, rights and never a hint of responsibility.

Blackjack

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Good story, but I've heard it before.

Grand. If you have a different summary, go for it.

Millie

maggot12345 wrote: »

Buy to let landlords in county towns have a lot to answer for--they'll rent to ANYBODY as long as their pockets are lined while they themselves will live a few miles out from the town immune to the trouble their tenants cause. God help the person in a semi who lives next to these people. There aren't any laws or supports for people who go to work every day

---

all the supports, rights etc. seem to go to those who are happy to sponge off the state. The Government must change this as people, whole generations are being enabled to live in this way. All rights, rights, rights and never a hint of responsibility.

That's the problem I faced and may do so again.
Greedy landlords who's house is more like a shed that only the worst of the worst would consider living in and the HSE willing handing over money to scum and landlord.

As I stated before I had nobody that I could turn to despite the horrors I was put through, house broken into, car stolen, intimidation etc etc & not one government body, representative gave a toss about my rights.