Opening your own cafe/restaurant

JajaD

Hi,

I am considering opening a cafe/restaurant and i would like any advice on how to open one?

Do i rent a place or do i buy one?

What legal procedures do i need to go through..

Are there any cafe/restaurant owners out there that i can talk to ?

Berty

First you have to decide what you want.

Do you want a Coffee shop serving some food or a restaurant serving some beverages?

Do you want a comfy place to lounge around and chat or a place where you fill the place with people, feed them fast and kick them out. "Bums on seats".

Do you want a Coffee Shop / Espresso bar?

You then have to decide where you want to open and what is needed/suitable for the area.

Before Step 1 Will the bank finance you?

(1) Decide where
(2) Decide what you want to open
(3) Get an architect / builder / planner to get you a CAD
(4) Use this CAD by giving it to companies who can design the place for you.

Stephens Catering are quite good at that.
I worked for Martin Food Equipment who also do this but Stephens are a one stop shop. They can supply flooring, seating, wallpaper, equipment and more. Its called a "Turnkey fitout".

You will always need a good Coffee so that you can leave to the experts. You can PM me about that later on. It's far too soon to be looking at anything like that first.

JajaD

I want a quirky coffee shop that does yummy homemade food with good value. I want it quite chilled out with cosy features like vintage chairs and great art. I would love to have it in the city but that seems very daunting. I know exactly what i want, and what type of customers i want to serve.. I dont want it to specific as to discourage potential customers..

I was looking up retail units to lease out. That looks like the better option.
So basically all i need is money. Then i get HAACP certs, and public insurance.

What kind of money would it take? Fortunately i come from a family of builders/electricians and interior designers so that would all be taken care of for me

What kind of savings would i need to aquire funding?

Thanks for your help

Berty wrote: »

First you have to decide what you want.

Do you want a Coffee shop serving some food or a restaurant serving some beverages?

Do you want a comfy place to lounge around and chat or a place where you fill the place with people, feed them fast and kick them out. "Bums on seats".

Do you want a Coffee Shop / Espresso bar?

You then have to decide where you want to open and what is needed/suitable for the area.

Before Step 1 Will the bank finance you?

(1) Decide where
(2) Decide what you want to open
(3) Get an architect / builder / planner to get you a CAD
(4) Use this CAD by giving it to companies who can design the place for you.

Stephens Catering are quite good at that.
I worked for Martin Food Equipment who also do this but Stephens are a one stop shop. They can supply flooring, seating, wallpaper, equipment and more. Its called a "Turnkey fitout".

You will always need a good Coffee so that you can leave to the experts. You can PM me about that later on. It's far too soon to be looking at anything like that first.

Berty

JajaD wrote: »

I was looking up retail units to lease out. That looks like the better option.
So basically all i need is money. Then i get HAACP certs, and public insurance.

What kind of money would it take? Fortunately i come from a family of builders/electricians and interior designers so that would all be taken care of for me

What kind of savings would i need to aquire funding?

Thanks for your help

HACCP. Enquire with your local civic offices to speak to an EHO.

What kind of money would it take? How long is a piece of string really. €80,000 or so is the average from floor to ceiling. I.e a Full fit out.

Savings? Well that's a question for a more financial orientated forum I would say.

I suggest you ask that here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=544

Corsendonk

Berty wrote: »

HACCP. Enquire with your local civic offices to speak to an EHO.

What kind of money would it take? How long is a piece of string really. €80,000 or so is the average from floor to ceiling. I.e a Full fit out.

Savings? Well that's a question for a more financial orientated forum I would say.

I suggest you ask that here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=544

Try this link out before you approach a EHO, most haven't worked in the food industry and frankly haven't a clue about HACCP or its proper application.


http://www.fsai.ie/food_businesses/starting_business.html

Mr Magnolia

Moved from coffee & tea. You're thread is better suited here and good luck with the venture.

wellboy76

Send me a PM.

This is something I am dealing with on a daily basis but would rather discuss it in private with you. Don't want anyone stealing your ideas!

Bandara

JajaD wrote: »

I want a quirky coffee shop that does yummy homemade food with good value. I want it quite chilled out with cosy features like vintage chairs and great art. I would love to have it in the city but that seems very daunting. I know exactly what i want, and what type of customers i want to serve.. I dont want it to specific as to discourage potential customers..

I was looking up retail units to lease out. That looks like the better option.
So basically all i need is money. Then i get HAACP certs, and public insurance.

What kind of money would it take? Fortunately i come from a family of builders/electricians and interior designers so that would all be taken care of for me

What kind of savings would i need to aquire funding?

Thanks for your help

I'm cutting to the chase here, you won't get funding. If you go to the bank with 60 grand and ask them for 25k loan I still believe they will say a very firm no.

On top of that you have no experience or idea how to operate a cafe/restaurant, you'll lose thousands and thousands before you start to get to grips with the business (which takes years), you'll be robbed blind and even if you were an expert in the business the chances of finding a location that has not got a strong presence is small, and the changes of making it in this climate are so slim (worst ever for food businesses, its estimated at least 80% of restaurants are losing money - source RAI - and personal observation).

Your concept is a romantic notion, quirky cosy etc, which is nice but not what the Irish market fits with. Its about fast sharp turnover, yummy homemade food is slow and requires additional staffing, the margins are large but the quantities of cash you'll take a small.

Its nigh on impossible to make 60k+

Sorry, Not what you want to hear but just my opinion.

Best of luck anyways, if I can be of any help pls ask.
HT

wellboy76

Not always the case. I met with a Lithuanian lady with no experience in Kildare today hoping to open a bakery/deli.

With a little help from the enterprise board and help from the right people, nothing is impossible.

Take it from me, businesses like this are opening up weekly. Not all succeed but if yours is quirky enough to be different then it can work.

Bandara

wellboy76 wrote: »

Not always the case. I met with a Lithuanian lady with no experience in Kildare today hoping to open a bakery/deli.

With a little help from the enterprise board and help from the right people, nothing is impossible.

Take it from me, businesses like this are opening up weekly. Not all succeed but if yours is quirky enough to be different then it can work.

Thats proves nothing wellboy, I can hope to open a budgie breeding farm, it just means that I register a new shiny company and it has lots of nice budgie cages, its still going to fail because I have no idea how to breed budgies, and the arse has fallen out of Budgie reproduction.

I notice that you are in the catering biz, I'm sure you see much more daily closures of businesses than openings?

wellboy76

I also said help from the right people.

Nobody can open this type of business without the relevant experience, thats where the relevant experience comes into play

Bandara

wellboy76 wrote: »

I also said help from the right people.

Nobody can open this type of business without the relevant experience, thats where the relevant experience comes into play

So we agree that the OP (with no experience) is on a hiding to nothing?

(I'm not being argumentative here, I just hate to see people take risks that make no sense)

wellboy76

Totally agree. Thats why when I met the lady today I asked whether she had spoken to the relevant people, EHO, enterprise board, bank etc.

We went through some mad sales guys in our time at it is why I went from the service element to sales a good few years back. I try not to bullshyte people. I dont take any commission, try give the best advise I can because I know success in business means knock on in others.

Works most of the time!

oldyouth

I cannot knock the OP for wanting to start a business, I've being thinking about it for a while now. However, you need to start adding some facts and figures to your concept. If you focus on the end product and forget to consider the financial mechanics of cashflow, turnover, staff costs, margins etc, you'll sink in a month

Work out the maths in a worse case scenario before you approach any finance house. If you get it wrong the first time, they won't listen a second time. It's about profit and loss at this stage, not art on the walls

Fries-With-That

JajaD wrote: »

Hi,

I am considering opening a cafe/restaurant and i would like any advice on how to open one?

Do i rent a place or do i buy one?

What legal procedures do i need to go through..

Are there any cafe/restaurant owners out there that i can talk to ?

This may sound a bit harsh, but, I have been in the business and do know what I'm talking about.

It appears that you have no idea about how a cafe/restaurant operates, have you worked in either ?

The best advice anyone could give you right now is think about what you've just asked on this forum.
If you're coming on here asking these type of questions it appears that you're starting from a very low knowledge base.

My advice to you would be to try to find a job in a cafe/restaurant/bar/hotel/coffee shop/bakery or at your local deli, if you are successful in finding a job in any of these areas congratulations you've made the first step towards opening your own business.

The first step ****** Learn something about the business******


I wish you well, before you go to any enterprise board, bank, self help business group about starting a business you need to know what you're talking about otherwise you'll look silly.

Regards,

Fries.

Fries-With-That

wellboy76 wrote: »

Not always the case. I met with a Lithuanian lady with no experience in Kildare today hoping to open a bakery/deli.

With a little help from the enterprise board and help from the right people, nothing is impossible.

Take it from me, businesses like this are opening up weekly. Not all succeed but if yours is quirky enough to be different then it can work.

I'd love to know, what help this lady is going to receive from the enterprise board.
In my experience if you approach them with an idea, you'll go through several meetings, you'll be told how wonderful the idea is, you'll meet with a business mentor and receive fantastic advice (which you follow up) because you believe that someone shares your dream.

Then you'll have another meeting with someone further up the food (funding) chain and you'll be told that whilst we believe your idea and product has huge potential to break into world wide markets, we will only give funding to you if you're an already established business.

And the final indignity is if you're asked to take your idea into the local university/college and hand it over to one of their departments to see if the students can develop it further.( no protection for your idea)


In my experience enterprise boards serve 2 purposes,

1) They tell you that your idea is crap and won't make anyone any money.
2) They tell you your idea is fantastic, you put your money into it, get the bank or a private investor to put their money into it and then we'll put a small amount of our money into it.

I wonder how many people on here that tell people to go to the enterprise boards have ever gone to the enterprise board.

Fries.

krd

Berty wrote: »

First you have to decide what you want.

Do you want a Coffee shop serving some food or a restaurant serving some beverages?

Do you want a comfy place to lounge around and chat or a place where you fill the place with people, feed them fast and kick them out. "Bums on seats".

Do you want a Coffee Shop / Espresso bar?

You then have to decide where you want to open and what is needed/suitable for the area.

Before Step 1 Will the bank finance you?

(1) Decide where
(2) Decide what you want to open
(3) Get an architect / builder / planner to get you a CAD
(4) Use this CAD by giving it to companies who can design the place for you.

Stephens Catering are quite good at that.
I worked for Martin Food Equipment who also do this but Stephens are a one stop shop. They can supply flooring, seating, wallpaper, equipment and more. Its called a "Turnkey fitout".

You will always need a good Coffee so that you can leave to the experts. You can PM me about that later on. It's far too soon to be looking at anything like that first.

A few things - you can forget about Town (if you mean Dublin city centre). The rents are still sky high and the area is already saturated with cafés. A large number of which will go under or already have gone under.

Be wary of advice. If you have money - all kinds of people involved in providing services to start up restaurants will tell you, you have a great idea. They'll tell you you need this and that - and just as it happens they happen to be in the business of supplying this and that.

You do not need 80 thousand, or 60 thousand, or 250 thousand. If you were already established in food services, you would be looking at that kind of money for some franchise or prime location. You're not, so you're not. Forget about the frills. The guy who set up Insomnia did it more or less on a shoe string. O'Brien's sandwich bars was more traditional Irish money - now bankrupt - couldn't turn a profit on watery coffee and soggy sandwiches. Though I'd say it was the stupid rents on their prime locations that the management of O'Brien's were too stupid to negotiate down - get out of the upward only rent clauses.

You work with what you have. If you have people who can pitch in a bit of work - your relations in trades - you're at an advantage.

If you're interested. Go into the city centre. Walk around. You'll see a good few outlets that have closed and are up for rent. These locations already have kitchens - ONLY AN ABSOLUTE FOOL, RENTS A SITE WITH A KITCHEN AND RIPS IT OUT TO FIT IT WITH A NEW KITCHEN BEFORE THEY'VE SOLD THEIR FIRST CHICKEN BAP. There are phone numbers advertising the landlords. Call them get prices -- They may give you a ridiculous offer, Do not be a fool to think the asking price is the price - they may or may not do a deal. You may get a site, with a kitchen, on a short term lease. So you're looking at very little to get started. If it fails you won't be bankrupt - if it succeeds- you'll be more prepared for whatever you want to do next.

I live in the city centre. Around me new food outlets spring up and within months are shutting. Then along comes other fools - completely gut and refit the outlet. And they will go bust within a few months. Because if you're dumb enough to do an entire refit on an outlet that only needed a little paint and cleaning, then most likely you will fail. You've already blown thousands you did not need to blow. Around the corner from me some eejits took over the lease on a fast food outlet. They ripped out everything. Had carpenters and everyone in completely rebuilding the counter - ripping out the old fryers - tearing the place apart. Now it's finished and open - and for all the money they spent it just looks identical to the previous set up - just with a fresh lick of paint. They'll go under in a few months and some other fool will take over the lease and do the same. Their food is brutal as well. They're not the only idiots who've done the same thing.

You can be clueless and succeed. My sister in-laws parents. A retired teacher and housewife - with zero experience of either food services or running a business, set up a wooden kiosk on an industrial estate. They made sandwiches in their kitchen at home. The average profit they made was 600 to 700 a day. That's net profit - each sandwich cost them pence to make and the margin was euros. Their weekly overheads were next to nothing. And they had zero competition.

You can set up a cafe with all the fancy trimmings have something wrong in the location or just have ****ty staff that scare people away. (One snotty little cow and you can kiss good bye to a lot of repeat business - kiss good bye to your business). Just get it wrong and you'll have difficult breaking €100 in a day.

Get it right and you'll stay open while all around you the others fold.

The downside to having "experience" is you're likely to set up the same identikit ****ty operation as most of the others have going for them.

YellowSheep

Dear OP
Opening a "place" never mind sandwich or full blown restaurant with no experience is suicide. You might as well take your money and burn it. It will costs you around €150 to €200 per sq" to open a place properly. €150 for a small unit and around €200 for a 100 seater. Besides the enormous costs and the little return, average in Ireland is <5%, its the hours which are hard. What a lot of people do not understand that working with and around food, is the vast rate of waste, especially if you never worked with same. If your food cost does not come in below 30% (which is the higher end) than any % over is your profit in the bin and this happens fairly quickly.
I would like to make this statement that the only restaurateurs surviving and being successful are the ones who know how to control their costs. I used to run in a restaurant chain which and my major daily task was to control costs. Here is a breakdown which you should adhere to:

Food & Beverage Cost = 30% of net turnover
Rent & Rates = 9% of net turnover
Wages = 30% of net turnover
Operation Expenses = 20% of net turnover

As you can see the leftover is only a 11% and you have to be a very good operator to achieve.

Please do understand that I do not discourage people to open restaurant ventures, but merely to express the hard work and danger doing so. I saw a lot of hard working and genuine people and friends working two or three years just to hit the wall.

I wish you well with your venture and keep in mind "food is alive" and that you learn to understand that. Kind Regards Oliver

krd

YellowSheep wrote: »

Dear OP
Opening a "place" never mind sandwich or full blown restaurant with no experience is suicide. You might as well take your money and burn it. It will costs you around €150 to €200 per sq" to open a place properly. €150 for a small unit and around €200 for a 100 seater. Besides the enormous costs and the little return, average in Ireland is <5%, its the hours which are hard. What a lot of people do not understand that working with and around food, is the vast rate of waste, especially if you never worked with same. If your food cost does not come in below 30% (which is the higher end) than any % over is your profit in the bin and this happens fairly quickly.
I would like to make this statement that the only restaurateurs surviving and being successful are the ones who know how to control their costs. I used to run in a restaurant chain which and my major daily task was to control costs. Here is a breakdown which you should adhere to:

Food & Beverage Cost = 30% of net turnover
Rent & Rates = 9% of net turnover
Wages = 30% of net turnover
Operation Expenses = 20% of net turnover

As you can see the leftover is only a 11% and you have to be a very good operator to achieve.

Please do understand that I do not discourage people to open restaurant ventures, but merely to express the hard work and danger doing so. I saw a lot of hard working and genuine people and friends working two or three years just to hit the wall.

I wish you well with your venture and keep in mind "food is alive" and that you learn to understand that. Kind Regards Oliver

It's not suicidal unless you do something suicidal. Like bite off way more than you can chew. Controlling costs is the sine qua non in any business. Leasing an outlet in a prime location with no experience can be suicide. Trying to compete with burger king is suicide. Using the cheapest tomato ketchup because you're saving a few pence is also suicide.

Complete amateurs can get away with running a cafe or even a small restaurant - even when they're clueless, they can get lucky. I have seen people do it successfully. Around where I live (the south inner city) there's the slick and sexy operations and then there's the rank amateur jobs. I'm watching the bumbling amateurs do all right. I've seen plenty of places shut.

I'm not offering to take you on a tour of the South inner city but there are tiny places (amateurishly run - but nice with nice home made type food) that are jammed every morning and lunch time. Then there are bigger places full of seats - where you will see no one or next to no one ever in there. The tiny operators are very definitely making more money than larger ones.

O'Brien's sandwich bars have gone under. They had the finest and most experienced managers in all of Ireland. They had economies of scale. They went under. There are still many independents open - if not thriving they're open.

There are economies of scale and there are diminishing returns when you don't have it right. Renting a big place and fitting it with a hundred seats will not mean you will have a hundred people sitting at once enjoying a meal. It may actually mean that you have a big cold empty room no one wants to sit in. A big room that you'll have to keep clean and heat and light.

Your margins are absolutely dependent on your economies of scale. A small place that's busy - that doesn't even have seats - will make more money than a cavernous fifty seater that's always empty.

Take a walk around - in the mornings and at lunch time - see who's empty and see who's not.

Think of places you've enjoyed going to - what made you enjoy them?

You have to have a philosophy to what you're doing. To concentrate on the money to the exclusion of all else is a big mistake. Saving a few pence or even Euros buying manky sausages and manky coleslaw will only save you a few pence in the short term - in the long term people will not comeback.

The experience argument. There are many places open that are awful - the people running them are the "experienced" people. They serve bad food and scare people off with bad attitudes and rudeness - or stupidity. They're too stupid to find ways to drum up trade. They're too lazy. They're lazy minded. There are several big places going into receivership - they had "experienced" managers on huge pay packets. Those same managers will go off and destroy other businesses. They have "experience".

I've seen the tasty home made thing work for people. I knew a guy who had no experience in catering. He opened a small deli. he just served good stuff. Instead of that awful cheap ham he sold the crumbly home bake. Instead of crap potato salad he had tasty potato salad. Everything was tasty - within months he had people flocking to him. An "experienced" manager might have gone for all the cheap and nasty stuff. And accumulate an anaemic trade. The odd stragglers finding their way in by accident - for a once in a life time experience.

antoinolachtnai

It is the two sides. On the one hand, you need a distinctive, well positioned offering.

On the other you need to understand and manage costs.

I dont know what places are being referred to above. I would say that a lot of these small operations may look simple but what they offer is actually quite sophisticated, in terms of food, atmosphere, positioning and service. Some of them are run by seasoned operators.

I worry about people setting up in non central locations. You need to be able to get a certain volume of trade for the thing to be attractive as a business. Many locations are not capable of doing this.

That said, there are fringe locations, which previously weren't restaurants but which have established themselves, even in the last year or two. However experienced operators tend to be involved.

wellboy76

Fries-With-That wrote: »

I'd love to know, what help this lady is going to receive from the enterprise board.
In my experience if you approach them with an idea, you'll go through several meetings, you'll be told how wonderful the idea is, you'll meet with a business mentor and receive fantastic advice (which you follow up) because you believe that someone shares your dream.

Then you'll have another meeting with someone further up the food (funding) chain and you'll be told that whilst we believe your idea and product has huge potential to break into world wide markets, we will only give funding to you if you're an already established business.

And the final indignity is if you're asked to take your idea into the local university/college and hand it over to one of their departments to see if the students can develop it further.( no protection for your idea)


In my experience enterprise boards serve 2 purposes,

1) They tell you that your idea is crap and won't make anyone any money.
2) They tell you your idea is fantastic, you put your money into it, get the bank or a private investor to put their money into it and then we'll put a small amount of our money into it.

I wonder how many people on here that tell people to go to the enterprise boards have ever gone to the enterprise board.

Fries.

You've been burnt?

JajaD

Well Im currently in my fifth year of working in a pub/restaurant and also run a small cupcake business for parties/events etc. I am an excellent cook and know a lot about food because i love food and providing people with lovely food.

I planned on renting a unit that had already a kitchen in it. I am also very aware of how many places there are that are closing every day. The reason why i am confident that i can be successful (i know i sound naive) but the type of place i want to open is nothing like what is in Dublin city centre. It is a place that would suit anywhere. I also have a qualification in research so i would do research before i opened up anywhere. Also, I have a marketing qualification which means i know how to sell a place and make it work. With my cooking/service experience and college qualifications i would think that i am as inexperienced as everyone is making me out to be on here

I know what works and i know what doesnt. You cannot beat good prices and tasty food. There is a quote i use: "No matter what changes in life, people always need food and clothes" And thats the two businesses i think that can survive in any economic climate once you are giving people what they want, and making them so happy that u get repeat business.

I know someone who open up a cafe in an area in a lower social background and they are thriving! They are making dinners an food like your granny used to make and everyone loves it. Its cheap and tasty. People come back. It can be done if you know what people want and if you are confident that you have noticed a gap in the market.

I am prepared to work non-stop at cooking in the kitchen and i am confident that with the people i intend to hire and with my menu i can be successful.

Well at least i think so...

(Go on...you's can all slate me now over something )

ebbsy

Having ran a restaurant for 7 years I can say that somebody should work in the business first before opening one. You would need to be around a lot, things can go to hell very quickly without proper discipline in a food business. Especially the cash side. The eho side is really down to the kitchen, with the owner enforcing it. Its very easy to get excited and spend loads of cash at the start, but its better to spend it on advertising.

As somebody else said its all down to the food though. Get people in to taste and ask them for their opinion honestly.

Best of luck. You will need it.

JajaD

Also, I am not intending to open a restaurant. Its more of a cafe/bistro.

Fries-With-That

JajaD wrote: »

Well Im currently in my fifth year of working in a pub/restaurant and also run a small cupcake business for parties/events etc. I am an excellent cook and know a lot about food because i love food and providing people with lovely food.

I planned on renting a unit that had already a kitchen in it. I am also very aware of how many places there are that are closing every day. The reason why i am confident that i can be successful (i know i sound naive) but the type of place i want to open is nothing like what is in Dublin city centre. It is a place that would suit anywhere. I also have a qualification in research so i would do research before i opened up anywhere. Also, I have a marketing qualification which means i know how to sell a place and make it work. With my cooking/service experience and college qualifications i would think that i am as inexperienced as everyone is making me out to be on here

I know what works and i know what doesnt. You cannot beat good prices and tasty food. There is a quote i use: "No matter what changes in life, people always need food and clothes" And thats the two businesses i think that can survive in any economic climate once you are giving people what they want, and making them so happy that u get repeat business.

I know someone who open up a cafe in an area in a lower social background and they are thriving! They are making dinners an food like your granny used to make and everyone loves it. Its cheap and tasty. People come back. It can be done if you know what people want and if you are confident that you have noticed a gap in the market.

I am prepared to work non-stop at cooking in the kitchen and i am confident that with the people i intend to hire and with my menu i can be successful.

Well at least i think so...

(Go on...you's can all slate me now over something )

Far from slating you, I think people on here were trying to offer you constructive advice.

Your first post is a far cry from the one above, if you had stated this level of experience from the outset the answers you received would have been different.


Best of luck with your project.

Fries.

Fries-With-That

wellboy76 wrote: »

You've been burnt?

No not yet

ebbsy

JajaD wrote: »

Also, I am not intending to open a restaurant. Its more of a cafe/bistro.

Still the same principles. How many tasty places are there in Dublin ? Not that many compared to the likes of Munich/Lisbon etc, which have so many special places. So if you can do something that people will go back to again and again thats the secret. Charging cheap prices means nothing - you can fill the place and still end up closing down very easily.

krd

ebbsy wrote: »

Still the same principles. How many tasty places are there in Dublin ? Not that many compared to the likes of Munich/Lisbon etc, which have so many special places. So if you can do something that people will go back to again and again thats the secret. Charging cheap prices means nothing - you can fill the place and still end up closing down very easily.

Dublin, a long time ago used to be better. In the days before the pilocky boohkies were getting millions for selling a few square metres.

Right now it's: Here's your soggy bagel and watery coffee - that'll be fifteen quid - because we have to raise 20 million quid to pay the rent on this place for the month -- but at least you've got a good look at my tits.

Rents used to be manageable - by the mid noughties - Grafton street rents were the highest for retail space in the world - in the world.

The German centres are still good because they never had a property boom - or rent boom.

Outside of Kinsale - there is virtually nowhere in Ireland where you can get a good meal for a decent price.

And if you've never been - and you like food - it's too late in the year now - but Kinsale is absolutely second to nowhere.

I'm not from Kinsale - I'm not from Cork - Kinsale is an Oasis in an Island of absolute dog ****. Dublin is right on the sea and we have **** all fresh sea food. During the summer, every pub in Kinsale serves fresh oysters - and they are properly fresh - not suffocated and ****ing dying. The last time I was there - in pub - plate of smoked salmon and brown bread - two bowls of chowder and a plate of oysters and two pints of Guinness - just over 20 quid. And there were all kinds of deals - like oysters on the half shell and a pint.

I've had "live oyster" on the half shell in Dublin at the ***** house - live my arse, it was a long dead cured oyster - probably fished out of a can.

Dublin city centre you have outlets selling bagels with crap in them for 4.95 - shove it up your arse.

andydrew

Life time spent in the business ... here s a few things I wish I knew before I started...

Being good all the time is better than being brilliant some of the time...

ALWAYS be the first one in and the last one out...

If you think your being robbed you are !
if you don t think your being robbed you are!

Think like this... you sell a pie in slices the last slice sold is your profit

If you want to work for a fool work for yourself ... ie lousy hours / pay /security etc

Make your suppliers work harder than you are

No direct debits !!! cash is king !!!

Treat all customers equally ! don t remember marys birthday not bridies...everyone is equal some are more equal that others ...

You are only as good as how things operate when your not there !!!

Count everything ! weigh everything ! measure everything ! and then do it again !!!

Give the customer what they want not what you think they want...

everything in its place and a place for everything...

your only as good as the last meal served

excellence is just a combination of small tasks done to perfection

there are only two days that are important today and tomorrow.

If ya got time to lean ya got time to clean !!!

always have a tub of sudacream (baby bottom cream) for "chefs arse" if you don t know that that is YOU WILL ! also mouthwash,deodorant, gavascon and paracetamol !!!

JajaD

Some great tips..

andydrew wrote: »

Life time spent in the business ... here s a few things I wish I knew before I started...

Being good all the time is better than being brilliant some of the time...

ALWAYS be the first one in and the last one out...

If you think your being robbed you are !
if you don t think your being robbed you are!

Think like this... you sell a pie in slices the last slice sold is your profit

If you want to work for a fool work for yourself ... ie lousy hours / pay /security etc

Make your suppliers work harder than you are

No direct debits !!! cash is king !!!

Treat all customers equally ! don t remember marys birthday not bridies...everyone is equal some are more equal that others ...

You are only as good as how things operate when your not there !!!

Count everything ! weigh everything ! measure everything ! and then do it again !!!

Give the customer what they want not what you think they want...

everything in its place and a place for everything...

your only as good as the last meal served

excellence is just a combination of small tasks done to perfection

there are only two days that are important today and tomorrow.

If ya got time to lean ya got time to clean !!!

always have a tub of sudacream (baby bottom cream) for "chefs arse" if you don t know that that is YOU WILL ! also mouthwash,deodorant, gavascon and paracetamol !!!

JajaD

krd wrote: »

Dublin, a long time ago used to be better. In the days before the pilocky boohkies were getting millions for selling a few square metres.

Right now it's: Here's your soggy bagel and watery coffee - that'll be fifteen quid - because we have to raise 20 million quid to pay the rent on this place for the month -- but at least you've got a good look at my tits.

Rents used to be manageable - by the mid noughties - Grafton street rents were the highest for retail space in the world - in the world.

The German centres are still good because they never had a property boom - or rent boom.

Outside of Kinsale - there is virtually nowhere in Ireland where you can get a good meal for a decent price.

And if you've never been - and you like food - it's too late in the year now - but Kinsale is absolutely second to nowhere.

I'm not from Kinsale - I'm not from Cork - Kinsale is an Oasis in an Island of absolute dog ****. Dublin is right on the sea and we have **** all fresh sea food. During the summer, every pub in Kinsale serves fresh oysters - and they are properly fresh - not suffocated and ****ing dying. The last time I was there - in pub - plate of smoked salmon and brown bread - two bowls of chowder and a plate of oysters and two pints of Guinness - just over 20 quid. And there were all kinds of deals - like oysters on the half shell and a pint.

I've had "live oyster" on the half shell in Dublin at the ***** house - live my arse, it was a long dead cured oyster - probably fished out of a can.

Dublin city centre you have outlets selling bagels with crap in them for 4.95 - shove it up your arse.

Haha.. i know what you mean

ebbsy

Some great posts there. And all true as well.

Just on the sandwich theme I remember the apartment in Rome I stayed in had a deli near it where they cut the bread fresh from a whole loaf when you ordered a sandwich. Most of the bread here is like a policeman's nightstick. I never see anything like that here. Something like that would make me come back again and again.

I used to live in Phibsboro and went to the Woodstock cafe a lot. Nice homemade food, breakfast/lunch and dinner.Good deserts. Something like that may work.

As the other posters have said volume is all important.

Corsendonk

Was walking around Dublin the last couple of days, way to many coffee shops for the trade I seen in them. Think you might be better looking at another concept.

If you press ahead, get yourself all the boxsets or try and downloads all of Ramsays 'Kitchen Nightmares" If anyone in the world knows how to run a restaurant it is Ramsay. I ate in his place The London in NY and it was out of this world. There must be 60-70 episodes of that, and you will see every single reason a restaurant might fail or have no customers. He basically gives the same blueprint in his episodes for success.

BUT

Even he is closing places in this current climate. That should be a setting alarm bells in neon lights off!

wellsir

ebbsy wrote: »

Rome I stayed in had a deli near it where they cut the bread fresh from a whole loaf when you ordered a sandwich. Most of the bread here is like a policeman's nightstick. I never see anything like that here. Something like that would make me come back again and again.

I love the idea above of doord stop sandwiches....would bring me back too

I am also on the look out for some advice...been in the IT game for the last ten years and have probably reached as far as I am going to go without starting out on my own, but i dont think that would be a good idea in current climate.
I am from and live in the midlands and spend 2 hours commuting and with a young family, I'm dreading the long winter.
I spent many a college night behind a bar, waiting tables and cleaning kitchens...but i haven't a clue about the business side of it, I would like to think I know what it takes to run a nice restaurant....the place I'm thinkin of leasing is a closed bar in the middle of a midlands town that only has 1 good testaurant for roughly 4500 people...it would need significant work...but i would have about 60k to spend....am i mental?

Does a liquor license lapse or does it just mean I will pay more for the premesis?
Theres no litchen in it either!

Thanks ya'll

antoinolachtnai

Why do you think you know what it takes to run a nice restaurant?

Why are you considering leasing a bar if you want to start a restaurant?

You are probably at work for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week at the moment. If you open a restaurant/bar, you will be away from home a lot more than that.

A job in IT operations is probably more secure than a job or business in the catering industry.

wellsir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Why do you think you know what it takes to run a nice restaurant?

Why are you considering leasing a bar if you want to start a restaurant?

You are probably at work for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week at the moment. If you open a restaurant/bar, you will be away from home a lot more than that.

A job in IT operations is probably more secure than a job or business in the catering industry.

I think if you do simple food at good prices and present it well, you will go a long way. i worked hard in places like these before and whilst it was never for myself, the experince from those places will stand to me.

Whilst in its current state it is a bar, I would want to convert it to a restaurant as I think it would have more potential than just reopening as a bar.

Yes I agree that the hours are pretty crap, but I have weighed it up with job satisfaction and it def appeals more.

I suppose it is secure, but its sooooooooooo boring and only option is to look for another IT job in Dublin and that means an even longer commute!

Thanks a mill

antoinolachtnai

The food business has come on a lot in 10 years. It might look the same, but it isn't.

Simple food and good presentation might go a long way, but it might not go far enough. There is an awful lot to consider. Most importantly - the economy is contracting, and you are talking about opening new capacity.


Job satisfaction is certainly an issue to consider but you also have to consider your family's need for financial stability and to have you around in the evenings and at weekends.

I am not saying it's a bad idea, but you need to consider it in a lot of depth. Are there any other options, such as buying an existing business?

wellsir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The food business has come on a lot in 10 years. It might look the same, but it isn't.

Simple food and good presentation might go a long way, but it might not go far enough. There is an awful lot to consider. Most importantly - the economy is contracting, and you are talking about opening new capacity.


Job satisfaction is certainly an issue to consider but you also have to consider your family's need for financial stability and to have you around in the evenings and at weekends.

I am not saying it's a bad idea, but you need to consider it in a lot of depth. Are there any other options, such as buying an existing business?

I agree I have A LOT to consider and spending time with family is top of the pile.
But i think a small town of 4500 inhabitants could support 2 restuarants, but i need to do some market research.

There is an existing business for sales (clothing) but its out of my league, turnover is excellent but owner deals a lot in cash and hence his official figures wont stand up in bank if i went looking for loan....and its a business I know absoultly nothing about.

Thanks again for your help.

Mr.Boots

Dont do it....... yet!
Start in market stalls or something where you dont have a large outlay and it will give you a feel and a taste of the business.
If that goes well...then move on a suiteble premises.

ebbsy

I would not open anything in a town of 4500 people, especially in the midlands. People there tend to go to the same places over the years, they are set in their ways ( not a swipe at them, but I live there myself).

Weekdays would be dead as well.

byrne0f56789

If you go for something unique you might get a big word of mouth kick when you start.

Think about one of those group buying sites to give you a bit of cash flow at the start.

If you do a typical run of the mill cafe/restaurant you will find it hard to get off the ground.

You need to build a fan base. There has never been better opportunities for hospitality businesses to market themselves on Facebook etc.

Do it I say.

Block (8

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Job satisfaction is certainly an issue to consider but you also have to consider your family's need for financial stability and to have you around in the evenings and at weekends.

I agree 100% with this statement, your way of life fundamentally changes especially when starting off.

wellsir

thanks for all the advice...still in two minds!!