Minimum of €3bn Budget cuts being sought

yrwhu8jxtni06a

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0913/fiannafail.html

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has suggested that December's Budget may cut more than €3bn from the economy.
Speaking as he arrived for his party's meeting in Galway, Mr Lenihan said the €3bn figure was a minimum and the Government had to strike a balance by cutting expenditure in such a way that did not damage the economy.
He said there was scope for the Government to raise that figure if it was so minded but no decision had yet been made.



Taoiseach Brian Cowen also said the Budget would 'meet the target' of delivering €3bn in savings as agreed with the European Union.
Earlier, the Taoiseach rejected Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny's assertion that it will take ten years to fix the economy.
Mr Cowen said that none of the opposition parties has a 'coherent policy framework' for dealing with either the economy or the banks.
The Taoiseach said that the Government's banking policy will proceed on the basis set out last March.
He said that Fianna Fáil was united regarding the banking policy being pursued by Government.
Regarding speculation about an early General Election, the Taoiseach predicted that the Government would last until May 2012.
Job creation and the economy are set to top the agenda as the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party meets over the next two days, ahead of the start of the new Dáil session later this month.
The final bill for Anglo Irish Bank will also be discussed and a presentation by NAMA Chairperson Frank Daly will be of particular interest.
Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern has meanwhile said that the Taoiseach enjoys the full support of the Fianna Fáil party as it faces into one of its toughest Dáil sessions.

Where will the cuts come from?,will they tax us to death again,will they tax the businesses to drive them out and then give themselves a pat on the back for a great idea?,will the vulnerable be targeted again?,what would you cut if you had the power..

Laminations

their throats

MrDarcy

Predictions:

Dole will be cut from 196 Euro a week to 178 Euro a week.

Pensions will be cut by around the same amount, around 10%.

There will be no such thing as "being outside the tax net" after the next budget, those on minimum wage will be paying 10-20 Euro a week in PAYE income tax and rightly so.

mikemac

3rd level registration fees to go up from 1,500 to something around 2,500

Just something that's widely touted and I think it'll happen

rightwingdub

Dole to be cut to €190 per week, maybe cut further for people under 25.
OAP to be frozen, government doesn't have the balls to cut the OAP.
College registration fees to be increased to €2k per annum.
more cuts in the HSE, of course it won't affect the people employed in the HSE.

MrDarcy

rightwingdub wrote: »

Dole to be cut to €190 per week, maybe cut further for people under 25.
OAP to be frozen, government doesn't have the balls to cut the OAP.
College registration fees to be increased to €2k per annum.
more cuts in the HSE, of course it won't affect the people employed in the HSE.

I reckon the pensioners are gonna be taking a hit and maybe it's not a bad idea. They have no mortgages, are relatively debt free and have free travel, deals on ESB, phones, medical cards, etc.

rightwingdub

MrDarcy wrote: »

I reckon the pensioners are gonna be taking a hit and maybe it's not a bad idea. They have no mortgages, are relatively debt free and have free travel, deals on ESB, phones, medical cards, etc.

At the very least the OAP should be means tested, any OAP with a separate income of at least €350 shouldn't be getting the OAP, the OAP has to be cut but the government doesn't have the guts to cut the OAP, memories of Ernest Blythe haunt these bunch of spineless wimps.

yrwhu8jxtni06a

MrDarcy wrote: »

There will be no such thing as "being outside the tax net" after the next budget, those on minimum wage will be paying 10-20 Euro a week in PAYE income tax and rightly so.

Surely the same should be increase in tax for those that earn 250,000-500,000 a year?...

Kepp on cutting the dole, Keep on raising the tax, watch suicides rise, more people fall into poverty and more money taken out of the economy which results in lower tax returns and higher job losses.

Meanwhile TD`s and high earners take what cuts?

rightwingdub

Deleted User wrote: »

Kepp on cutting the dole, Keep on raising the tax, watch suicides rise, more people fall into poverty and more money taken out of the economy which results in lower tax returns and higher job losses.

Meanwhile TD`s and high earners take what cuts?

And if the government doesn't cut public spending in the next few budgets then we'll expect a lovely EU/IMF intervention, I'd suppose you'd like that to happen.

rightwingdub

rightwingdub wrote: »

And if the government doesn't cut public spending in the next few budgets then we'll expect a lovely EU/IMF intervention, I'd suppose you'd like that to happen.

Thats going to happen anyhow, and yes I welcome the IMF/EU because it will end the pathetic charade of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Why is it some people are driving around in €40,000 car and have never heard of a recession? And yet others are loosing their homes and lives?

rightwingdub

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats going to happen anyhow, and yes I welcome the IMF/EU because it will end the pathetic charade of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Why is it some people are driving around in €40,000 car and have never heard of a recession? And yet others are loosing their homes and lives?

Everyone will be getting poorer if there's an EU/IMF intervention in the economy and it won't be pretty, government cutbacks would actually be quite humane compared to what an EU/IMF intervention would be like for the Irish people, it would be especially brutal for the unemployed and our beloved public sector.

chris85

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats going to happen anyhow, and yes I welcome the IMF/EU because it will end the pathetic charade of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Why is it some people are driving around in €40,000 car and have never heard of a recession? And yet others are loosing their homes and lives?

The IMF coming in would be terrible. The recession would last longer as other economies have no faith in our economy. We are starting a receovery which will be slow but the IMF coming in would create a really bad scenario for which we would suffer even worse.

We must also remember some people over extended themselves in the good times as well as the banks lending irresponsibly also and thus some people are in worse sitation than others becasuse of this.

I think we will see a 3-4% drop on the dole and a small increase in the higher rate income tax rate. I would not expect the lower rate to be altered.

Increases in cigarettes and alcohol are also very likely as well as tax increase for fuel. I would be in favour of an increase in the second house property tax. If you can afford a second house then you should be contributing greater to the economy.

I would also like to see corporation tax unchanged. Water charges will be in soon as well i would imagine.

What ever the government do they are only tinkering with the Budget.

Whatever you cut or raise you are taking directly out of the ecnomy, look at the last budget, Tax revenue has fallen since.

During the last budget the savings made have been wiped out with increases on the dole and tax revenue` falling.

Ireland has a budget defecit of €25 Billion, saving 3-4 Billion wont make a dent!

Soon the intrest payments for all the loans for Anglo etc will outweigh the amount we can pay, WE WILL DEFAULT.

One way or another the IMF/EU will come in.

RichardAnd

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats going to happen anyhow, and yes I welcome the IMF/EU because it will end the pathetic charade of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Why is it some people are driving around in €40,000 car and have never heard of a recession? And yet others are loosing their homes and lives?

My uncle drives a BMW worth about 40k and do you know why? Because in the 1970s, he got off his ass and started a business selling scrap from a van. 40 or so years later, he's a multi-millionaire.

But of course, after a comment like that, I'm guessing (and I could be wrong) that you're the begrudging type who thinks that anyone driving a merc is a dodgy banker or a civil service lord. My uncle didn't make his money by thinking like that.

Chuchoter

He's talking about the middle class celtic tiger people, whose car the bank not they own.

Class sizes are going to go up at second level, special needs resources cut and a lot of dole payments (single mothers etc) will go. Dole will be reduced to what it is in the UK.

crayolastereo

The only thing that bugs me, probably because I'm 22, is the age discrimination thing when it comes to Social Welfare.

I'm a Social Welfare recipient, unfortunately, and while I do agree it should be cut down (though I disagree with the €178 figure above. An rounded-off number like €175 or €180!) I don't like the way they did the last budget.


If the dole's getting cut, it should be cut for everyone. Cutting it for everyone has a knock on effect as everyone's in the same boat. Retail prices, etc. will generally alter to reflect that. Everyone's a winner ultimately.

But cutting it slightly, and then taking a bigger cut from those aged 18-20, 21-22, etc. just puts those at the younger end of the spectrum worse off.


I do think it should be cut though. Not by too much though. Nothing radical. Still need to be able to pay for the necessities and such. Always a challenge, never a struggle and all that




Edit;

crayolastereo wrote: »

He's talking about the middle class celtic tiger people, whose car the bank not they own.

Class sizes are going to go up at second level, special needs resources cut and a lot of dole payments (single mothers etc) will go. Dole will be reduced to what it is in the UK.

Love the ridiculousness of your post. Worthy contribution to the thread.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats going to happen anyhow, and yes I welcome the IMF/EU because it will end the pathetic charade of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Stop your trolling willya, the dole in Latvia is €100 a MONTH after the IMF finished with them.

Why is it some people are driving around in €40,000 car and have never heard of a recession? And yet others are loosing their homes and lives?

Probably because they don't work in construction and/or did not take out lots of mortgages to buy investment properties in Leitrim

keane2097

Deleted User wrote: »

The only thing that bugs me, probably because I'm 22, is the age discrimination thing when it comes to Social Welfare.

I'm a Social Welfare recipient, unfortunately, and while I do agree it should be cut down (though I disagree with the €178 figure above. An rounded-off number like €175 or €180!) I don't like the way they did the last budget.


If the dole's getting cut, it should be cut for everyone. Cutting it for everyone has a knock on effect as everyone's in the same boat. Retail prices, etc. will generally alter to reflect that. Everyone's a winner ultimately.

But cutting it slightly, and then taking a bigger cut from those aged 18-20, 21-22, etc. just puts those at the younger end of the spectrum worse off.


I do think it should be cut though. Not by too much though. Nothing radical. Still need to be able to pay for the necessities and such. Always a challenge, never a struggle and all that




Edit;





Love the ridiculousness of your post. Worthy contribution to the thread.

But everyone is not in the same boat.

As age increases the number of financial responsibilities a person has generally increases.

I was on the dole last year for 6 months (aged 22) and the €204 a week had me living the life or Riley.

andrew cross

i read that sean odriscoll head of glen dimplex called for a five year wage freeze good man sean if i had your 186 grand ayear you could freeze my wages to o dont forget your 67 grand from aib great job you have done there we irish are as timid as mice they cut our wages cut our public services to hand over billions to the banks we fight among ourselves who should pay the government and the banks are screwing us :mad:

ParkRunner

Just to clarify, I presume it is a 3bn adjustment they are aiming for rather than 3bn of cuts? If they already have 1bn earmarked off capital expenditure, 2bn from tax broadening/increases and reductions in current expenditure should be achievable enough!

Gus99

What happened to the savings that were supposed to be delivered by reform of public service work practices, under the Croke Park agreement? Forgive my naivety ...should this not contribute to the €3b saving, in return for guarantee of jobs and current wage levels?

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

But cutting it slightly, and then taking a bigger cut from those aged 18-20, 21-22, etc. just puts those at the younger end of the spectrum worse off.

How, exactly ?

If you're living at home and even contributing €150 a month to bills, then the remaining €140 a week is more than enough to survive on.

In fact, if you have no bills, you should be able to survive on half of that.

RichardAnd

Gus99 wrote: »

What happened to the savings that were supposed to be delivered by reform of public service work practices, under the Croke Park agreement? Forgive my naivety ...should this not contribute to the €3b saving, in return for guarantee of jobs and current wage levels?

I was wondering that myself not too long ago. Not to sound like an irate PS hater but I don't think anyone, on either side of the fence, really believed the so called reform would result in much.

cson

andrew cross wrote: »

i read that sean odriscoll head of glen dimplex called for a five year wage freeze good man sean if i had your 186 grand ayear you could freeze my wages to o dont forget your 67 grand from aib great job you have done there we irish are as timid as mice they cut our wages cut our public services to hand over billions to the banks we fight among ourselves who should pay the government and the banks are screwing us :mad:

The above post is a major problem almost exclusively associated with the Irish psyche.

O'Driscoll earned that €68k back in 2008. He also lost a lot of money by retaining a large shareholding in AIB. He's been with Glen Dimplex for 20 years in various high capacity roles and to be quite honest after stints as CFO and CEO I think €186k for him is about right when you look across at similar positions.

But no, he earns >€100,000 therefore he must be screwing us somehow from his lavish Mercedes and thus he is the root of all that's wrong with this country. Who cares how he got that position. Or so you'd have us believe.

So, please get back in your box until such a time as you're able to offer an opinion that isn't stained with begrudgery.

irishh_bob

MrDarcy wrote: »

I reckon the pensioners are gonna be taking a hit and maybe it's not a bad idea. They have no mortgages, are relatively debt free and have free travel, deals on ESB, phones, medical cards, etc.

pensioners are indeed incredibly spoiled but they wont be touched , the pensioners can rely on two things , they are the one voter bloc who are still largley supportive of fianna fail and two , the mushy headed sentimentality of the irish people , the majority of people seem to subscrible to the notion that all pensioners are poor when in fact , the over seventys are among the richest social groups

Lifelike

We're talking about Budget 2011 here not Budget 2010 , can the mods change the title?

dunsandin

Last time I checked, the budget was being issue in december, 2010.
I wonder will they cut the quango's that have remained largely untouched?
I wonder will Biff get a wage to reflect his abilities? And the same for the rest of them. €40k ought to do it.

Idbatterim

Id start with alot of the rich who pay no tax. Then start with those at the opposite end of the spectrum who also pay no tax. Im not sure FF or any party for that matter, would have the balls to take on pensioners. Obviously if the low paid are taxed more, social welfare has to be cut. I cant believe the negligible amounts that are proposed to being cut and the uproar over the savage cuts, when in reality, we would need to cut all expenditure by 40-50%, just to be returning a break even budget! 50% paying no direct tax in this current "Crisis" is just unbelievable. How much if we werent bailing out the banks would we have to cut from the budget?

Bjorn Bored.

Class sizes are going to go up at second level, special needs resources cut and a lot of dole payments (single mothers etc) will go. Dole will be reduced to what it is in the UK.[/QUOTE]


That will hardly just happen overnight in one budget.

macbrada

RichardAnd wrote: »

My uncle drives a BMW worth about 40k and do you know why? Because in the 1970s, he got off his ass and started a business selling scrap from a van. 40 or so years later, he's a multi-millionaire.

But of course, after a comment like that, I'm guessing (and I could be wrong) that you're the begrudging type who thinks that anyone driving a merc is a dodgy banker or a civil service lord. My uncle didn't make his money by thinking like that.

fair play to your uncle and any like him who work hard...it's the socialist idiots that stop efficient action been taken.. They want to have the same as hard workers without the work..

get rid of the massive surplus in the public service..i.e 14 porters in a hospital in town with 5 always out sick.

But to get rid of the wasters the unions they hide behind must oust the slackers! never gonna happen so the end of unions should be encouraged by those not afraid to keep their jobs based on honest hard work!

andrew cross

did not do a great job then sorry jobs lost all that money and he on the board of aib oops banker rimes with ****er i feel sorry for us who pay for their mistakes :eek:

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland has a budget defecit of €25 Billion, saving 3-4 Billion wont make a dent!

If you had paid attention while the teacher was explaining percentages then by now you'd be rich and this thread would have a different direction.

cson

andrew cross wrote: »

did not do a great job then sorry jobs lost all that money and he on the board of aib oops banker rimes with ****er i feel sorry for us who pay for their mistakes :eek:

Eh, in English please?

elbows666

Maybe this is too simplified but if the average industrial wage is €32,000 and if that person paid an extra €80 a month in tax (€1,000 P.A.) and prorata the additional tax based on income so it gets proportionally spread over the entire workforce and there are circa 2 million employed then that is 2 Billion in tax.

coletti

elbows666 wrote: »

Maybe this is too simplified but if the average industrial wage is €32,000 and if that person paid an extra €80 a month in tax (€1,000 P.A.) and prorata the additional tax based on income so it gets proportionally spread over the entire workforce and there are circa 2 million employed then that is 2 Billion in tax.

Unfortunately then they all have €1000 less to spend per annum on other goods which are taxable, such as new cars, alcohol, cigarettes, holidays, theatre tickets and so on, so even if your tax raises €2 billion, there will be less raised by other indirect taxes. So the NET effect will be much less than €2 billion raised.

That's before we examine the effect to jobs on taking €2 billion out of the reail economy, and the cost to the exchequer or increased dole payments and a fall in corporation tax and National Insurance taxes.

It's possible that an increase of €2 billion on income tax can lose the exchequer more than €2 billion in indirect taxes.

gurramok

Well said coletti. Its the expenditure thats the more serious problem, not the revenue as there is only so much you can push revenue up in a severe recession.

dan_d

True Gurramok, but neither is spending the way out of the recession the right way to go. Probably to achieve any sort of balance we need to reduce the cost of living and increase taxes. To reduce the cost of living, minimum wages need to be cut, utilities need to be cut (prices), and VAT needs to be reduced slightly.It's a tricky one to balance.

They could, however, start by getting rid of all these levies, and just outright call them what they are - tax.

snubbleste

Ireland has a budget defecit of €25 Billion, saving 3-4 Billion wont make a dent

This is true.
We're borrowing to pay for current expenditure
€4bn to be taken out of the economy every year for the next x years.

gurramok

dan_d wrote: »

True Gurramok, but neither is spending the way out of the recession the right way to go. Probably to achieve any sort of balance we need to reduce the cost of living and increase taxes. To reduce the cost of living, minimum wages need to be cut, utilities need to be cut (prices), and VAT needs to be reduced slightly.It's a tricky one to balance.

They could, however, start by getting rid of all these levies, and just outright call them what they are - tax.

Tis hilarious alright. ESB prices are still sky high for industrial electricity.

No point cutting minimum wage(or anyone on low wages) if social welfare is still too high and the employees biggest cost(accommodation via rent which in turn is 50% market controlled by the govt) is still too high to encourage this bracket to spend on consumer items or work in the first place!.

Reducing business costs can only be done if all round costs like insurance/rent(that old chestnut)/wages/VAT are reduced too. Its a viscious circle.
Guess will the govt have balls to take on the vested interests both public and private?

coletti

snubbleste wrote: »

This is true.
We're borrowing to pay for current expenditure
€4bn to be taken out of the economy every year for the next x years.

Borrowing today is taxation tomorrow. What lessons should our government learn , and what should we learn, after this period of governmental incompetence?