"Rival" Business taking clients and making cash in hand

Buttercake

Hi Folks,

I started a company this year, i'll call it Kildare XXXXX for illustrative purposes

I registered the company, registered for VAT, Corp Tax, the lot. I have an office, have one lad working for me and everything is fine and all above board.

I have a good spot in google when you type in Kildare XXXXX, I appear at the top as most of my business enquiries come from the internet and I own the domain KildareXXXXX.ie

I noticed recently that a guy has registered a website called Kildare4XXXXX.com, I found out that he is only working part-time in the same industry and charging about 50euros less than I am and taking cash only from customers.

My rates are right down at the bottom of the scale and now this guy is doing this job part-time while also in full-time employment and charging less than me while i have to pay vat, insurance and other costs.

The issue I have now is that when you type in Kildare XXXXX, his website comes up first above mine. His website is different in look and feel but I worry about my customers getting confused and i have already had them onto me asking why this guy is charging 50euros less and is also a very poor service.

Do I report him to the Revenue?, I checked the Revenue website and there is not much on it to report someone if they are making cash in hand

Any advice would be great

Dymo

Technically he mightn't be doing anything wrong you don't know his tax affairs and he doesn't have to apply to revenue unless he go's over the threshold but he has to make his tax returns every year. The name is a cheap shot but not illegal.

Register 10 domains with the similar Kildare4XXXXX.com but change it a bit and but have them forwarding to your website hopefully his website will be then lost in the listings.

thirtythirty

Get onto IEDR.

Have a look at their website first, they have dispute resolution policies - see what they say.

Shzm

OP said it was a .com registered - what can the IEDR do?

thirtythirty

Oh woops, i saw "xxx.ie", and then just the "kildare4" bit!

Fergal C

Buttercake have you registered a limited company? If so you might want to check with your solicitor to see if you have a claim against this person for "passing off". You would have even greater protection if you had a trademark registered, so that might be worth looking into. More info at http://www.patentsoffice.ie/

John368

I just want to comment on the issue with people doing things "cash-in-hand" or perhaps as "homers". It gets me very very annoyed when I know that people like that take business away from me. They might not be doing anything illegal as they could actually be declaring it to the tax authorities, but it is annoying that they are perhaps working for the little extras, while I am working to pay the mortgage and put bread on the table as well as the overheads that a properly set up firm has.

However, there is not much you can do about it. Shopping them to the tax authorities, is a personal decision. It is a way of making enemies and you need all the friends you can get in business. Personnally, I would not do it.

I would concentrate on providing a more professional service than the moonlighters. Also perhaps trying to target the bigger companies. Work on the principle of "nobody ever got fired for specifying IBM" which is an old saying going back to the days of the first computers when IBM was way ahead of other firms, but charged the most. The people in bigger companies often get little if any credit for saving a few quid on hiring cheaper services, but if they hire a service which is cheap and cheerful and get let down by it their bosses are sure to come down on them like a ton of bricks.

John

Buttercake

Fergal C wrote: »

Buttercake have you registered a limited company? If so you might want to check with your solicitor to see if you have a claim against this person for "passing off". You would have even greater protection if you had a trademark registered, so that might be worth looking into. More info at http://www.patentsoffice.ie/

thanks for your comments

Correct, I am a registered company... I send emails back to customers when they make an enquiry, it's all formatted with bullet points and nice graphics etc

I sent an email to this guy with an fake enquiry and he sent back one of my emails, it looks about 90% the same(few minor changes) as what I would send to a customer.. It's very close to passing off but I don't know if that would work

I know he is not registered for vat because in my enquiry I asked could he supply a vat number or a tax clearance cert and he said no to both

I have over 22 domains protecting our website and all directing to the main website

My issue is that he is appearing higher in google than me while I am trying to run a business accordingly and by the book and these rogues are just pilfering off

I also found out that he is South african and heard that he is doing this to make cash and then head home

i'm going to report it to the revenue and see what they say, all i have is his name and address and i'm not going in gun's blazing, i'll just see what they say as a concerned businessman

Its a service industry that I have my business in so cost is always an issue with customers(why i've had to drop my rates to the bottom) and it's a competitive market but we have a good model and give a professional service

I'm not too worried about making enemies with this guy tbh!

91011

I'd make strong customer service statements - even in todays market many people will pay a premium for top noth service.

State that you're local. State how many years you are in the trade, give a list of customer reviews, give a guarantee, etc etc.

mathepac

Buttercake wrote: »

... I also found out that he is South african...

Does he need a working visa? Does he have one? Garda Immigration Bureau?

Buttercake

mathepac wrote: »

Does he need a working visa? Does he have one? Garda Immigration Bureau?

yeah he must have one because he is working full-time as well...

CompFix

Myself and a few friends, all self employed, are in various service industries and we all agree that quality of work will always shine through. I'd spend less time worrying about what he is or isn't doing and use it for coming up with new marketing strategies that include some of the details that 91011 mentions below.

91011 wrote: »

I'd make strong customer service statements - even in todays market many people will pay a premium for top noth service.

State that you're local. State how many years you are in the trade, give a list of customer reviews, give a guarantee, etc etc.

Agree with this. Get the trademark that was mentioned but fyi, it can take up to 6 months.

Tony

Buttercake wrote: »

My issue is that he is appearing higher in google than me

Thats something you can change, find out why he is appearing higher.

Buttercake

Tony wrote: »

Thats something you can change, find out why he is appearing higher.

He's copied my website index page title(word for word) and the same keywords I use

I've taken out adwords to appear at the top

Tony

I'd seek some SEO advice, if his site is youunger than yours with duplicate content he should not be ahead of you.

Buttercake wrote: »

He's copied my website index page title(word for word) and the same keywords I use

I've taken out adwords to appear at the top

skelliser

pm sent

Fergal C

...My issue is that he is appearing higher in google than me

Build back links to your site, with the keywords as the link text.

DubTony

Fergal C wrote: »

Build back links to your site, with the keywords as the link text.

... and the first thing to do is add your sig to your posts on here. But don't sig spam the forum. The mods don't like that. There are rules about it around here somewhere.

StupidLikeAFox

If he is using forbidden or "blackhat" techniques to get higher than you in Google, his site can get banned from google altogether. Ive no idea what these are or how you'd find out but someone might be able to help you.

Buttercake

thanks for all the comments regarding seo

i was really hoping there was a process where you can report someone making cash in hand, while you are trying to do everything right

it seems like its easier just to do it all cash in had instead of paying vat, becoming a ltd and hiring staff

tedshredsonfire

Butter it easier and perfectly legal as long as tax returns are being made. You don't have to register for vat unless over a threshold. there are pros and cons for being a ltd co or a sole trader or partnership doesn't mean the guy is not legit. SEO and google may be a better option.

neris

its crap when things like that happen in business but good service or good service & product and people will come back to you and recommend you. In my experience its not the guys with flashiest premises or flashiest vans that do the best its how you treat people and the quality you give them. Keep plugging away at it, advertise and promote.

PhatPiggins

Why not post a link to yours and your competitors site so we can give you some proper feedback

Its free advertising at the very worst

iMax

It might be worth emailing your clients saying it's come to your attention that there is someone operating a very similar website to you & that you are not affiliated in any way with this inferior service/product.

D.W

Buttercake-if as you mention that the majority of your sales leads are coming from your website rankings on Google then it should be a piece of cake to outrank your "competitor" in a local niche like Kildare xxx. You have more domains, more origional content etc... so in fact if you did it right should be able to dominate the first page for your associated terms.

If you are not happy to post your web address here feel free to PM me and I'd be more than happy to have a look for you and offer any advise I could. Of course by posting it up here you'll get more collective feedback.

Personally I wouldn't devote any energies to chasing this guy up. He's done nothing wrong as such. Might be a little underhand but thats life online. You will be far better focusing on how to beat him at his own game.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

If you feel the guy is passing himself off as you by using your business name and you have proof of established reputation you'd have a case under common law.

If he's over the threshold and not declaring the income then yes report him to Revenue.

Website wise, Meta Keywords aren't relevant for rankings so don't worry about that. If they copy content then report them via your google webmaster tools console (if you don't know what this is google it and sign up).