2 yr old Hotpoint Fridge Freezer packed-in!

La Haine

When I opened the fridge door yesterday morning the light came on but the fridge wasn't cool. So I checked the below freezer compartments and they were defrosting. There was no humming noise or anything.

Literally 2 years old this month.
Bought it in Powercity in Tallaght so went down there - they had me on computer and so just printed off my receipt with a phone number for Hotpoint.
So rang them this morning and it's gonna cost about €114 to get a fella out to just look at it. Whether or not he can fix it - it doesn't matter - you still pay him €114. Or the alternative is to pay about €19 a month for 10 months bringing the cost up to €190 wherby if he can't fix it - they'll replace it.

The machine cost about €350 2 years ago - but surely it shouldn't be packing-in after 2 years? I live on my own so there was no messing or moving or knocking off it.

So my question is - should it simply be replaced by Powercity or Hotpoint because it's faulty? Not fit for purpose? Or does having it 2 years do away with that?

Any thoughts would be great - because I'm so broke now that that call out charge would kill me.

Thanks.

cynder

La Haine wrote: »

When I opened the fridge door yesterday morning the light came on but the fridge wasn't cool. So I checked the below freezer compartments and they were defrosting. There was no humming noise or anything.

Literally 2 years old this month.
Bought it in Powercity in Tallaght so went down there - they had me on computer and so just printed off my receipt with a phone number for Hotpoint.
So rang them this morning and it's gonna cost about €114 to get a fella out to just look at it. Whether or not he can fix it - it doesn't matter - you still pay him €114. Or the alternative is to pay about €19 a month for 10 months bringing the cost up to €190 wherby if he can't fix it - they'll replace it.

The machine cost about €350 2 years ago - but surely it shouldn't be packing-in after 2 years? I live on my own so there was no messing or moving or knocking off it.

So my question is - should it simply be replaced by Powercity or Hotpoint because it's faulty? Not fit for purpose? Or does having it 2 years do away with that?

Any thoughts would be great - because I'm so broke now that that call out charge would kill me.

Thanks.

Does not surprise me, Hotpoint are rubbish.

DRYER:
we bought out house 5 years ago and kitted it out with Hotpoint, the hot point dryer(s) broke 5 times in a year had 3 new ones delivered in that year and each one broke and got fixed and broke again after the 5th time we told them to shove it and got a hover dryer (still in use)

Cooker

After 18 months the oven glass (door glass)kept exploding (once during Xmas dinner)twice replaced (we ended up doing a a deal with them that we pay 200€ for a new cooker as they could not find why the glass was exploding) we think the oven was getting too hot but they said it was fine.

Fridge freezer

same as yours but after 4 years. We bought a samsung American style fridge freezer frost free for 550€. (that also broke twice in the first year, the frost free function failed and was fitted wrong so failed again, running fine now)

Never going near Hotpoint again.

If i was you buy a new fridge freezer (not Hotpoint)


Hotpoint dishwaser and washing machine still working fine after 5 years.

La Haine

Cheers. So I'll not be buying Hotpoint again. :"O(

Joey the lips

Same thing happened with my hotpoint fridge. did they advise you that even repairing a fridge there is no guarantee it will work.

Its the gas that has gone in the fridge.


Hotpoint/Creda/Indesit are all the same company fyi so stay away from them

subway

goods need to last a reasonable amount of time.
in your situation i would go to the power city store where you bought it and ask to speak to a manager.
explain to them that hotpoint are refusing to repair under warranty (which is in addition to your statutory rights) and so you would like power city (as the retailer you purchased from) to offer a repair/refund or replacement.

they will decline so dont get angry, note everyones name that you speak to and get dates, times etc.
on the back of that, send a letter to power city head office outlining again your sitaution, i think sample letters are available on consumer connect.
give them a set period to reply. if they dont reply or send you back a refusal to attempt to repair the unit you now have enough to make a strong case to the small claims court.

fill out the relevant forms, attach copied of all communication and send it off, the registrar will then make a decision.

should take around 3-4 weeks but would be the best shot you have to get your money back.

IMO a fridge should last more than 2 years under normal use.

La Haine

Subway - thanks a million!

I was down there with them yesterday and accepted being fobbed off with a copy of my original receipt with Hotpoint's customer care number on it.

Nothing to lose by going back down and trying to politely insist.

Thanks!

subway

Q11. I have a faulty good but my guarantee is out of date by one month. Is there anything I can do?

Therefore you may, if the reasonable lifetime of a given product exceeds the time period of any warranty, pursue the seller in respect of your statutory rights - 'The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980'. If the trader refuses to offer redress for the faulty goods and you have exhausted all other options you may wish to pursue the matter with the Small Claims Court.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/FAQs/Faulty-goods/

Shopping: guarantees and warranties

If you are not satisfied with the manufacturer’s response in this case, you still have the option of approaching and claiming from the seller.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Shopping/guarantees.html

just some links to help you on your way. remember, the staff in any shop are generally going to be ignorant of your rights and may actually annoy you with some of the things they come out with. dont let it get to you

La Haine

Again, brilliant - I'll most definitely head back down armed with this info.
Thanks!

gerrycollins

getting a fridge fixed is not worth the hassel, your better off going after them for the faulty good and getting it replaced.

however even the european rule of 2 yrs warranty with large items might help you but they are not obliged.in general

•The Directive on Sale of Consumer Goods and Guarantees: If a product you buy does not conform to the agreement you made with the seller at the time of purchase, you can take it back and have it repaired or replaced. Alternatively, you can ask for a price reduction, or a complete refund of your money. This applies for up to two years after you take delivery of the product.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/07/48&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

gerrycollins

sorry another thing,

If i were you I would invest in an independant engineer who can confirm that the product was not abused or mistreated because that could invalidate any action you take against the retailler or supplier.

how many time have phone companies used the "water damage" excuse just so they are not obliged to replace a phone.

subway

gerrycollins wrote: »

sorry another thing,
The Directive on Sale of Consumer Goods and Guarantees: If a product you buy does not conform to the agreement you made with the seller at the time of purchase, you can take it back and have it repaired or replaced. Alternatively, you can ask for a price reduction, or a complete refund of your money. This applies for up to two years after you take delivery of the product

in ireland, its 6 years
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/04/18/story48637.asp

For example, Irish sale of goods legislation allows consumers to reject faulty goods and obtain a refund for products bought in Ireland, and contains no time limit for liability for lack of conformity which, instead, is governed by the general six-year limitation period for contractual claim

foggy_lad

gerrycollins wrote: »

however even the european rule of 2 yrs warranty with large items might help you but they are not obliged.in general

•The Directive on Sale of Consumer Goods and Guarantees: If a product you buy does not conform to the agreement you made with the seller at the time of purchase, you can take it back and have it repaired or replaced. Alternatively, you can ask for a price reduction, or a complete refund of your money. This applies for up to two years after you take delivery of the product.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/07/48&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

this directive was not adopted in ireland because there is protection for up to 6 years provided here by the sale of goods act and the statute of limitations.

dudara

Under Consumer Law, you are entitled to expect goods to last a "reasonable" amount of time. In the case of a fridge-freezer (which has suffered no damage) I would definitely expect this to be more than two years.

Your contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer, so that is where you need to start. Return to the store, and let them know that you expect either a replacement, refund or repair as per your rights. Be polite and pleasant at all times. At this stage you need to be reasonable and able to demonstrate that you made every effort to work with them.

If there is no success, let them know in writing that they have X working days to make progress in resolving the issue or you will be lodging a claim in the SCC.

La Haine

Thanks a million dudara - I'm brutal on confrontation so will do my best with powercity.
:O)

subway

dont think of it as confrontation, just a step you need to take to give them the opportunity to recognise the situation and offer recourse.
the court will only expect you to assert your rights and be refused before they step in, you dont have to be a "professional complainer" or cause a scene to do that

just to pick up on an ealier point, if they offer a repair you must allow them to repair it, if it fails again after that they should offer a replacement or refund.

in all honesty, and based on my own personal experience with power city, they will not budge on the "manufacturers guarantee" response. whether you get angry or not will not change that so dont needlessly stress over it. just state your case clearly to the store manager and follow that up with a polite but firm letter if needed.

dudara

Agreed with the above - it's not confrontation. It's a chance to have a discussion about resolving the issue. Don't go in with the attitude that it's a confrontation.

As I said, be pleasant - view this as an opportunity for all involved to solve the problem with minimum pain. To date, I've never had to escalate an issue - I always seem to get things taken care of. I think my attitude has a big part to play in this.

La Haine

Love to have somebody do it for me!

Thanks a mill for all the advice guys.
I've spent a fortune with Powercity over the last few years - from all kitchen appliances to Tv, stereo - the lot.
I'll point that out to them as well and hopefully they'll see that I'm not a chancer.

Thanks again.

foggy_lad

also if they suggest they organise a free repair it will most likely be a free warranty repair by the manufacturer in which you will be expected to pay a call out fee and labour costs which could cost €100+ but parts would be free

Del2005

La Haine wrote: »

Love to have somebody do it for me!

Thanks a mill for all the advice guys.
I've spent a fortune with Powercity over the last few years - from all kitchen appliances to Tv, stereo - the lot.
I'll point that out to them as well and hopefully they'll see that I'm not a chancer.

Thanks again.

Print out all the relevant info from the links provided so when you go to the shop you can show the manager. Sometimes they may chance their arm if you don't sound confident, but they can't argue when it's there in black and white in front of them.

fitz213

Hi

In a similar situation. Good advise. I presume I can buy a new one in parallel with applying to the small claims court? Being without a fridge/freezer is no fun!

Thanks
John

ssmith6287

Lads can someone show me where it says the product must last 6 years on an official government document. If the receipt stipulates that they offer 12 months warranty does that not act as an agreement between the consumer and store. Not being argumentative but have a friend that works in a retail store who has an answer for everything

how is the term reasonable translated. eg if my 2000 fridge is covered for 6 years then surely my 300 should only be covered for a year because its 6 times cheaper

L1011

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Lads can someone show me where it says the product must last 6 years on an official government document. If the receipt stipulates that they offer 12 months warranty does that not act as an agreement between the consumer and store. Not being argumentative but have a friend that works in a retail store who has an answer for everything

how is the term reasonable translated. eg if my 2000 fridge is covered for 6 years then surely my 300 should only be covered for a year because its 6 times cheaper

Retail staff are often the worst informed of the law or assume their employers policies are law.

Statute of Limitations Act 1957 as modified by the Sale of Good Act 1980. It is not a warranty or a requirement to last 6 years, but allows a claim to be made for manufacturing defects for up to 6 years

A warranty is offered in addition to consumer rights and you cannot agree away those rights.

Judges determine reasonable and some have brought cost when new and assumed quality in but there is no set standard. A 2000 euro fridge likely has a good 1500 euro for the brand name on the front, rather than any proof of quality - look at the countless threads on a certain Korean brands expensive fridge freezers here!

ssmith6287

Has the product to go faulty within a certain time frame or can it go faulty at any time during the 6 years? Also if its stipulated by the retailer / seller on the receipt that you have 12 months does this not count as an agreement between the consumer and retailer that they have agreed to 12 months cover?

L1011

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Has the product to go faulty within a certain time frame or can it go faulty at any time during the 6 years? Also if its stipulated by the retailer / seller on the receipt that you have 12 months does this not count as an agreement between the consumer and retailer that they have agreed to 12 months cover?

No, and as already explained, no. You CANNOT agree away consumer rights like that.

ssmith6287

so it doesn't have to go faulty within a certain time frame and its not covered if it goes faulty at anytime in the 6 years.... this is about as clear as the term reasonable

kennethsmyth

ssmith6287 wrote: »

so it doesn't have to go faulty within a certain time frame and its not covered if it goes faulty at anytime in the 6 years.... this is about as clear as the term reasonable

Ok you seem to be purposefully causing a confusion here - see your quote in red.

L1011 has been very clear
1.Sale of goods act allows for 6 years for a manufacturing defect to occur.
2.Sale of goods act states that the product should last a "reasonable" amount of time (up to six years if you take point 1 into account). Yes the word reasonable is debatable but its clearer than you state.

Reasonable would be up to the six years for a fridge, maybe 2 to 3 for a hairdryer as it can be abused. It can be discussed as to what a reasonable timeframe is but I think an average person can see clear to what it might be.

Just to note its the business not the consumer who chooses which of the three R's is utilised but can only use each one once.

If repair it must be permanent - if it breaks same issue again then one of the other two solutions can be asked for by the consumer but again the business chooses which one.

If refund the amount refunded can be reduced by wear and tear / time of use. Eg had it for 3 years maybe worth 50%, had it two months full refund.

If replace then it must be of an item of same spec/value or better.

ssmith6287

Nothing purposeful about it. I asked if the product is covered for 6 years I was told no, I asked if the product had to go faulty within a certain period and was told no. with 6 years being the number that gets thrown about.

so nobody can put a number on the amount of time that is reasonably expected for a product to last. It's all down to a personal attitude to technology, value and money.

customer A might expect it to last 15 or 20 years as in the good old days
customer B might see that electrical products are by and large disposable now and have a shorter term view
customer C might have a lot of money and seen it as a small purchase and just to replace it.

Reasonable is a term that's too vague, and this is where im having the issue. I could be any1 of them 3 customers, as a consumer I feel there should an exact term of cover, which I cant find. so looking back over this thread, some people are saying get rid of it its a bad brand, others are saying id be shocked, and others are spouting rules that could be hit or miss in application

Can anyone send a link for where it says basically the retailer is fully liable for a product that fails through no fault of the consumer for 6 years. It wont be them exact words but Im after reading that sale of goods act and cannot see it anywhere. I read something before where it said you have an implied warranty where parts would be available but it would be at your own cost, and that the warranty or guarantee would allow you to claim for up to 6 years unless stated other wise by the manufacturer. I just cant find it now

kennethsmyth

Ok I'll bite.

Nothing purposeful about it. I asked if the product is covered for 6 years I was told no,

No you didn't, your question was :

"Has the product to go faulty within a certain time frame or can it go faulty at any time during the 6 years?"

Your question is mixed ie 6 years is a timeframe. L1011's answer was No and this No refered to the first part of the question. In other words so long as its within 6 years there is No time frame other than the 6 years.

I asked if the product had to go faulty within a certain period and was told no. with 6 years being the number that gets thrown about.

You are referring to the second part of a confusing (ie not clear) question that L1011 seems to have thought was one single question:

"or can it go faulty at any time during the 6 years?"

L1011 second No refers to your second sentence:

"Also if its stipulated by the retailer / seller on the receipt that you have 12 months does this not count as an agreement between the consumer and retailer that they have agreed to 12 months cover?"

L1011's No is stating that no this does not count as an agreement and you cannot agree to give away your consumer rights - you always have them.

so nobody can put a number on the amount of time that is reasonably expected for a product to last. It's all down to a personal attitude to technology, value and money.

Not true - a judge can and he/she will take into account how long an average person could expect a device to last.

customer A might expect it to last 15 or 20 years as in the good old days
customer B might see that electrical products are by and large disposable now and have a shorter term view
customer C might have a lot of money and seen it as a small purchase and just to replace it.

Again the word reasonable is just that - I explained it was not as clear as it could be but however a reasonable expectation of a devices life could be determined by maybe the average lifespan of that type of device for consumers in the wild.


Reasonable is a term that's too vague, and this is where im having the issue. I could be any1 of them 3 customers, as a consumer I feel there should an exact term of cover, which I cant find. so looking back over this thread, some people are saying get rid of it its a bad brand, others are saying id be shocked, and others are spouting rules that could be hit or miss in application

Small claims let judge decide - spouting nothing other than what the legislation states.

Can anyone send a link for where it says basically the retailer is fully liable for a product that fails through no fault of the consumer for 6 years. It wont be them exact words but Im after reading that sale of goods act and cannot see it anywhere. I read something before where it said you have an implied warranty where parts would be available but it would be at your own cost, and that the warranty or guarantee would allow you to claim for up to 6 years unless stated other wise by the manufacturer. I just cant find it now

No link necessary - L1011 stated it - "Statue of Limitations" which by coincidence happens to be 6 years - wow!

ssmith6287

cheers lads, I wont ask questions going forward

mdebets

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Just to note its the business not the consumer who chooses which of the three R's is utilised but can only use each one once.

Just a small correction here, it's actual neither on it's own, customer and business have to agree which R to choose. Normally, this means that the business proposes an R and if the customer doesn't agree with it, he is free to go to the SCC, but he needs a really good reason, to refuse the R, chosen by the business.