Are external coaches protected ?

SDTimeout

A quick enough post this evening. I was watching Cyborg Abreu vs Rolles Gracie Jr at Grapplers Quest which took place at the UFC Fan Expo held in Boston quite recently. I love watching stuff like this and how calm and composed some of the guys are. I tried that yesterday and just calmed down and thought about everything. It all seemed slower and I didn’t seem too tired at the end of rolling. That’s one for the note book to think about anyway, real never back down stuff there!

While this somewhat links to my last post (thank you for the positive replies I have received, including some points clearing up misunderstandings on my behalf) the number of more local shows popping up also means more clubs are being established. I myself only joined a club in June when it opened for the first time; naturally credibility was pondered over at the start. Yet when you find out peoples credentials you become a bit more relaxed.

This is the market we live in, more clubs opening so more shows and more fighters. However take it into account for the same with shows. Some people have been critical of Cage Contender due to the fact John F has never competed on trained in MMA. Should he not be allowed run events? Of course not this just means John is working from a smooth business preparation background (and a few stray blows won’t have clouded his thinking!)

My ideal scenario would be the guy(s) who is (are) running the club are the ones who are training me. This isn’t always possible as the owner of my Gym’s background is Muay Thai and Fitness Instructing. I’m glad in one way my BJJ coach is externally sourced we still have a great relationship with him because he is committed to our club and I suppose it’s better than a behind closed doors pay 85€ for the year and 12€ per lesson after! What I mean is that the owner isn’t trying to teach BJJ himself because he wants us to improve at it and he teaching us would be a disservice.

It was a comment I think by Eddie Bravo that made me think about it and how it all entwines together like something out of The Wire. They spoke of how BJJ and Submissions is becoming more exciting within the UFC but it depends on the situation. If it happened on a prelim there wouldn’t be too much fuss, however when it happens just like Silva vs Sonnen, Brock vs Carwin that is when people notice. That is when people start to ask who his BJJ Coach is? He really has been working on his BJJ with that submission, well done!! It’s not gotten to the stage that an average fan will enjoy Maia vs Miranda (I liked it!!) but they are becoming more educated and appreciative.

This made me think onto a smaller scale and the “new” clubs and the over stacked card. It also made me think of a comment I saw on boards how so many clubs opening under names like FIGHT CLUB (no mention of mixed martial arts in the title). Gives the impression that you are going to become Brad Pitt or Jake Tyler and fight in the streets and get girls.

What happens when a gung ho fighter goes into his first fight, representing his new club? Has no real intention of going to the ground because sure been he a boxer in his teens? He doesn’t really train BJJ and if he does it’s because he wasn’t too badly hurt from sparring for his upcoming fight.

Are outsourced coaches protected? Is it better they are affiliated with the gym’s and should there be a Xtreme Couture rule in place (anyone under 8 months says they want to fight, everyone in the gym gets to have a go with him in training) Who are we to say a coach can’t teach in three places a week because the emphasis isn’t directly on his fighting style of preference. If we are letting fighters on different shows then coaches are allowed to do the same.

So what happens to this guy when he goes into his first fight? Taken down and submitted because he has virtually no sprawl or takedown defence. He loses but sure it was only his first fight!! He fought representing his club and that took some balls!

Yet the more astute amongst us will ask who his BJJ coach is. That coach will now be seen from other coaches and gym runners as the guy who couldn’t (when the student wouldn’t learn) shrimp and bridge off his back. His reputation is tarnished but the other areas of the club are fine because his stand up was crisp! He was a boxer after all!

I make it no secret, I want to train as much as I can in BJJ because that is the fighting style I think will be most beneficiary to me if I were to start competing. It would help me when some big lad tries to act the hard man and I can nullify him. Those jumping in which such little experience is the ones who are going to be beaten. These are the ones who will get a pat on the back for going down swinging by the casual fan. These are the ones who have potentially tarnished a BJJ coach’s reputation.

I have no need to be so pessimistic, I’m going to quite a few events soon and I know there will be a couple of first time fighters. I won’t judge the BJJ coach if it’s ended on the ground easily (A Quick background check on the club will see how much importance is placed on it.) I will judge the person who allowed someone to step into a cage so inexperienced and untrained for what is MIXED martial arts. Every fight starts on the feet I accept this; the majority of them however don’t end there.

Be interested to hear some opinions on this. Alot of coaches / owners here

* Permission from cowzer given to post this btw!

Pontificatus

Can you link to the original post? Its pretty poorly written and doesnt really get its own point across, the author needs to ask themself what question/statement they are trying to make rather than rambling. What is the underlying question of the post? Is it asking about the right of newly established gyms fighters to compete on fight shows?

I also dont buy that submissions in the UFC are getting more exciting. Yes, Brock Lesnar has started training with Eric Paulson and fair play to him for that but its worth noting that submission defence is far easier than submission attack (unless you're fighting Chael Sonnel ). Yes Maia is a savage beast on the ground but he is really working hard on his standup now to prevent a reoccurence of the Marquardt defeat.

Its hard to understand Eddie Bravo at the best of times and his commentary is pretty poor given that he doesnt even know the competitors names or history of said competitiors at the UFC expo event (Grapplers Quest). He didnt know who Lucas Lepri was and he got Penny Thomas's name wrong despite it being announced in front of him and the fact that she is an ADCC and Mundial champion (unlike him ).

SDTimeout

It was me and it's only my second article. I'm not allowed to post the link it's why i quoted it here.

It was just something that struck me as potentially unfair. A Coach gets labeled as a bad coach becuase more fighters wanting to fight on these newer cards.

I'll work on my clarity, thanks for feedback

Pontificatus

SDTimeout wrote: »

It was me and it's only my second article. I'm not allowed to post the link it's why i quoted it here.

It was just something that struck me as potentially unfair. A Coach gets labeled as a bad coach becuase more fighters wanting to fight on these newer cards.

I'll work on my clarity, thanks for feedback

Maybe PM me the link and i'll read the other article too. I'm sorry if i sounded too critical.

Coaches and fighters should be judged on their own merits. What i mean by that is that just because Mir loses to Lesnar by GNP doesnt make Robert Drysdale a bad coach.

I've never heard a fighter blame their coach, i've only ever heard them blame themselves and say that there are still things that they need to work on.

Winning or losing doesnt reflect poorly on your gym, performance does.

cowzerp

SDTimeout, you can always put the articles up in this manner-thats the whole thing, we want the news but not people using Boards to push there own web traffic, if getting the story's out there is the goal then they can just post it like you did without needing to externally source it..

Keep up the articles and keep learning from it, all feedback you get will help you improve your writing style etc..

Jason McCabe

I find it a bit hard to understand the point in this article.

baz123

SDTimeout wrote: »

It was me and it's only my second article. I'm not allowed to post the link it's why i quoted it here.

It was just something that struck me as potentially unfair. A Coach gets labeled as a bad coach becuase more fighters wanting to fight on these newer cards.

I'll work on my clarity, thanks for feedback

Keep up the good work man,your thirst for knowledge of all things mma will stand by you and already you can see some of the peeps who were down on you from the start change their tune. well done man

arybvtcw0eolkf

baz123 wrote: »

Keep up the good work man,your thirst for knowledge of all things mma will stand by you and already you can see some of the peeps who were down on you from the start change their tune. well done man

If memory serves me correctly nobody came down on the young lad, they simply stated that being young alone was not any reason for getting the job and that the best person for the job should get it regardless of age.

It's obvious who that comment is aimed at and its funny to say the least.

The person i'm talking about is the same person who gave you most your contacts and supported you from the start untill you tried to make boards policies a personal issue with him.

This is why some times it's best not trying to help people as many times it just gets thrown back in your face-
but people in the scene know this and know what went down.

ps, keep up the articles and remember practise makes perfect!.

Jason McCabe

Conner Damp Razor wrote: »

and remember practise makes perfect!.

what if you are practising wrong?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jason McCabe wrote: »

what if you are practising wrong?

Then you'll be perfectly wrong

baz123

Conner Damp Razor wrote: »

If memory serves me correctly nobody came down on the young lad, they simply stated that being young alone was not any reason for getting the job and that the best person for the job should get it regardless of age.

It's obvious who that comment is aimed at and its funny to say the least.

The person i'm talking about is the same person who gave you most your contacts and supported you from the start untill you tried to make boards policies a personal issue with him.

This is why some times it's best not trying to help people as many times it just gets thrown back in your face-
but people in the scene know this and know what went down.

ps, keep up the articles and remember practise makes perfect!.

there you go again eh? i suppose its to be expected....keeping true to form and all that. got a knack for getting involved everywhere 'that person' is. you happen to be involving yourself with something that does not concern you 'again' and as for the whole 'know what went down' lark.... you watching way too many gangster movies i guess

arybvtcw0eolkf

baz123 wrote: »

there you go again eh? i suppose its to be expected....keeping true to form and all that. got a knack for getting involved everywhere 'that person' is. you happen to be involving yourself with something that does not concern you 'again' and as for the whole 'know what went down' lark.... you watching way too many gangster movies i guess

Well now you know what I am, that I'll watch a buddies back when someone is trying to stick a knife in it.

You'll find I'm the same in real life too if you keep it up, just remember that when your gonna be two faced again - because I only wear the one, and will always have a buddies back.

theboxingclinic

you could probabaly say the same for clubs that are mainly grappling clubs sd if they are not pursuing the stand up element of mma. all fights start standing up ;-), and may not go to the ground depending on the individuals involved. there are a lot of high level boxers training at our gym but they will not fight mma until they feel comfortable on the ground.
you speak about the ground game as if it is exclusively bjj, but there are many different styles of grappling as there are many styles of stand up and isint that what makes mma so exciting. with such a mish mash of styles you get a pool of fighters who are very different to each other.
it is also a little different for guys your age as you are being introdouced to mma from the beginning so you are being taught different elements from the start wheras before mma most guys(not all), stuck to one discipline and tried to excel in it, eg boxing, judo, karate etc so you will have guys with 10 years boxing, 8 months bjj or 4 years bjj, 1 year thai etc so each fighter will gravitate to the type of fight that he is most comfortable with, stand up or grapple.
i do agree with you however that stand up guys should have at least the basics of grappling and defending take downs but grapplers shouls also have decent hands and foot work to try and avoid an early ko.
its a great time for guys your age as you are a new breed of mma in ireland and will raise the bar higher and higher as you progress.
keep up the good work, really enjoyed your first article. it was very well written.

baz123

Conner Damp Razor wrote: »

Well now you know what I am, that I'll watch a buddies back when someone is trying to stick a knife in it.

You'll find I'm the same in real life too if you keep it up,IS THAT A THREAT?????? just remember that when your gonna be two faced again - because I only wear the one, and will always have a buddies back.

Are you threatening me???????

cowzerp

baz123 wrote: »

Are you threatening me???????

baz123, i can tell you now he is not threatening you and i would not have threatening behaviour on here.

He is simply saying he is the same on here as in real life and would say it to your face, if im wrong then he can come on and say so..

arybvtcw0eolkf

baz123 wrote: »

Are you threatening me???????

No.