Who are your favourite fighters and why?

gene_tunney

I'll get the ball rolling.

Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield
This guy is an absoloute beast. We all know about Holyfield the Heavyweight, but he started his career as a Light Heavy. He then moved up to Cruiserweight and cleaned out the division. What I love about him is when he moved up to Heavy, he never backed down. People said he was a "blown up Light Heavy" but that didn't stop him. He slugged it out with guys who were so much naturally bigger than him. He took on Foreman, who weighed in at 257, and they smashed each other for 12 rounds. Holyfield weighed in at 208 for this fight, and started off his career at 177.5. It was freakish for him to stand up to a guy like Foreman, and to hurt him. His trilogy with Riddick Bowe is one of the greatest trilogies in Heavyweight history. He gave Bowe the only loss of his career, and slugged it out with him for 3 fights, despite being so much smaller. Round 10 of their first fight is one of the most incredible sporting spectacles I have ever seen. Bowe delivered a few cracking shots and had Holyfield on the back foot, and then followed him around the ring, raining down on him with massive shots trying to finish him. This was after 9 rounds round of brutal punishment. Halfway through the round Bowe tires from throwing punches, and Holyfield mounts a comeback! First he throws a right hand, warrior-like, and as his head clears he begins to connect with Bowe, snapping his back. Its a phenomenal display, and the round ends with both fighters exchanging huge bombs even after the bell goes. The commentator exclaims "That's one of the best rounds in Heavyweight History" and the two fighters return to their corners with the crowd on their feet giving a standing ovation.

Holyfield fought and beat Tyson twice. Tyson wasn't prime, but he was by no means a shell. Holyfield beat him at his own game, took Tyson's best shots and came back for more. The first fight was made because Holyfield was seen as past his prime and washed up, 14 years later he's still fighting and was screwed out of a World Title against Valuev. Tyson is one of the biggest monsters to ever get in a ring, and the "washed up" Holyfield simply destroyed him, and later drove him to an animalsitic act of barbarism out of frustration. IMO he beats a prime Tyson as well. Holyfield had a granite chin and a lion's heart. He never ducked anybody and never gave up.

Over the years he has given me so much entertainment. I wasn't watching boxing for his earlier fights, but thanks to Youtube I've been able to catch up. The guy fought everybody, and gave us so many great fights. His fights against Dokes, Foreman, Tyson and Bowe were excellent. He also fought Buster Douglas, Larry Holmes, Mercer, Lennox Lewis, Ruiz, Rahman, Toney, Ibragimov and Valuev. He avenged his loss against Moorer. The man just loves to fight!

It wouldn't be fair to mention the highs of his career and to ignore the lows. The man is not flawless. He headbutts constantly in boxing matches; some say this is what drove Tyson to bite his ear off! If you watch the Michael Dokes fight, he headbutts him and hits him with a low blow at the same time in the first round - that's one way of letting the bigger man know you won't lie down! Tbh, he gets a lot of hate for the headbutts, but I believe if the ref doesn't call you on it, he's not doing his job. These guys do whatever it takes to win, and some take it farther than others, but that's a different discussion. They say Buster Douglas got a long count against Tyson, and Tunney got a very long one against Dempsey, but is that cheating? No. They took as long to get up as they were given. Referee's mistake. There's also the steroid debacle. Yes, it's cheating, but a lot of these guys are desperate for an edge and it's hard to blame them. Mosley took them, so did Briggs, so did Toney and Vargas. Floyd has his Xylocaine. I can imagine there are countless cases we don't know about, and countless fighters never caught. My point is, I'm not condoning it, I'm just pointing out its not an isolated case.

So that's why I love Holyfield, he's the best Cruiserweight of all time IMO, and he added greatly to the Heavyweight scene. Its really sad that he's still fighting, still on "God's Mission" to regain the Heavyweight Title. He's pretty badly "punch drunk" at this stage. He was unlucky not to get the nod against Valuev, but unfortunately I don't think he's going to stop until he either takes a serious beating, or people stop agreeing to fight him. He's still a top 15 Heavy IMO, which reflects poorly on today's division. He wants a shot at the Klitschko brothers, but I doubt they will ever agree to fight him, and if they do, it will be a saddening and one-sided affair. I don't think anyone can convince him to stop, but I can't help cheering for him when he fights, even when he shouldn't be in the ring, so I'll be cheering for him in his next fight against Sherman Williams on November 5. I don't think Holyfield would know what to do with himself if he wasn't boxing. It's his life. Some say he needs the money, after all he does have 11 kids by 7 women so it's not unlikely!

I have more to come on other boxers, but first I want to read about your favourites!

keane=cock

at the min i am really enjoying watching victor ortiz. i know he is ghetting a lot of stick for the way he retired against maidana. i just love his style. speed and the fluidity of his punches. i honestly think this lad will go far if he can get someone to get him to grit his teeth and fight tru the pain and become (like holyfield above) a warrior

f1dan

Floyd Mayweather - Can't help but admire the technical skill on display

CorkMan

Muhammad Ali-cos he's the greatest of all time.

Cavehill Red

Lennox Lewis - made a ton of money off him, and he never brought the fight game into disrepute.

McGuigan - Nuff said.

Marvin Hagler - what a boxer.

Sugar Ray Robinson - the actual best boxer ever.

Roberto Duran - rock hard, hands of stone, impossible to put down, fought forever.

In comparison with those lads, the current crop don't excite me much, I'm afraid.

CorkMan

You can't call SRR the best boxer ever IMO. Put him into the ring against Ali and he won't last. How can a fighter 145-160lbs beat a fighter 210-230lbs?

SRR is the best of his weight class, but with Ali being the best heavyweight it means he would beat any man that ever lived.

Cavehill Red

CorkMan wrote: »

You can't call SRR the best boxer ever IMO. Put him into the ring against Ali and he won't last. How can a fighter 145-160lbs beat a fighter 210-230lbs?

SRR is the best of his weight class, but with Ali being the best heavyweight it means he would beat any man that ever lived.

Ali fought in the Sixties and Seventies. It's likely that many if not most of the boxers in more recent times, being fitter and bigger and faster, would have beaten Ali.
A bear would destroy Ali, but it doesn't make the bear the better boxer.
Sugar Ray's achievements are unparalleled. That's why he is the best boxer ever. Ali, in my opinion, might not even have been the best in his weight class in his time of boxing. Certainly Foreman was as good, and fought better for longer.

MrStuffins

CorkMan wrote: »

You can't call SRR the best boxer ever IMO. Put him into the ring against Ali and he won't last. How can a fighter 145-160lbs beat a fighter 210-230lbs?

SRR is the best of his weight class, but with Ali being the best heavyweight it means he would beat any man that ever lived.

Someone needs to be introduced to P4P!

CorkMan

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ali fought in the Sixties and Seventies. It's likely that many if not most of the boxers in more recent times, being fitter and bigger and faster, would have beaten Ali.
A bear would destroy Ali, but it doesn't make the bear the better boxer.
Sugar Ray's achievements are unparalleled. That's why he is the best boxer ever. Ali, in my opinion, might not even have been the best in his weight class in his time of boxing. Certainly Foreman was as good, and fought better for longer.

I disagree on the basis that Ali faced fighters who hit much harder than any Heavyweight in the last 20 years, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe included. Foreman could hit harder than any Klitschko, any, erm, David Haye. So could Earnie Shavers.

Ali beat them all though, he was supremely confident and I have no doubt he would beat all of them today aswell. BTW I don't know where you got the faster remark! None of them can dance today, even if they took ballerina lessons

As for Foreman being better, he didn't beat a 32 year old Ali, so I don't think he beats a 1966-'67 Ali either. Ali was perfection IMO, supremely confidence, could take a punch and never intimidated. (Liston, Foreman) He wouldn't have been intimidated by Tyson either.

Cavehill Red

If I recall it was Sugar Ray that inspired the creation of P4P!

Robinson's performances at the welterweight and middleweight divisions prompted sportswriters to create "pound for pound" rankings, where they compared fighters regardless of weight.

Yup, I remembered correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray_Robinson

Cavehill Red

CorkMan wrote: »

I disagree on the basis that Ali faced fighters who hit much harder than any Heavyweight in the last 20 years, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe included. Foreman could hit harder than any Klitschko, any, erm, David Haye. So could Earnie Shavers.

Ali beat them all though, he was supremely confident and I have no doubt he would beat all of them today aswell. BTW I don't know where you got the faster remark! None of them can dance today, even if they took ballerina lessons

As for Foreman being better, he didn't beat a 32 year old Ali, so I don't think he beats a 1966-'67 Ali. Ali was perfection IMO, supremely confidence, could take a punch and never intimidated. (Liston, Foreman) He wouldn't have been intimidated by Tyson either.

No, he would have been destroyed by Tyson. We'll agree to disagree on whether Ali was the best heavyweight of his era. At best, I'd say he was top two.
But he doesn't come close to being the best boxer ever. Ali once said there was one boxer above all others, the man he described as 'The king, the master, my idol'.
He was referring to Sugar Ray Robinson. And he was right.

CorkMan

How do you think a prime SRR would fare against a prime Henry Armstrong? Or a prime Sam Longford? (He went from LW to HW)

CorkMan

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No, he would have been destroyed by Tyson. We'll agree to disagree on whether Ali was the best heavyweight of his era. At best, I'd say he was top two.
But he doesn't come close to being the best boxer ever. Ali once said there was one boxer above all others, the man he described as 'The king, the master, my idol'.
He was referring to Sugar Ray Robinson. And he was right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL7KnkWWXbQ

0:10, 2:10 and 2:26 my friend

Cavehill Red

CorkMan wrote: »

How do you think a prime SRR would fare against a prime Henry Armstrong? Or a prime Sam Longford? (He went from LW to HW)

Sugar Ray was simply the best p4p boxer who ever lived, period.

keane=cock

Cavehill Red wrote: »

A bear would destroy Ali, but it doesn't make the bear the better boxer.
.

nacho libre

At the moment it would have to be Paschal. Froch, whether you like him or hate him, is always good to watch too. It will be a war between him and Abraham while it lasts.

Wild_Dogger

Sugar Shane Mosley ~
Probably because of his style in the ring , fast as lightening and technically dazzling .
He can brawl when necessary too , inside , at distance ..... whatever .

He never ducked a fight ,but rather he hunted bigger opponents down , always seeking the best .

He never went on with any hard man antics , always respectful in and outside the ring . Probably too nice inside tbh.

But everything you could look for in a true champion you will find in Mosley's arsenal .

CorkMan

A bear would destroy Mike Tyson or George Foreman, i'd have 20 yoyos for Ali to win by UD.

gene_tunney

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sugar Ray Robinson - the actual best boxer ever.

Agreed!

CorkMan wrote: »

How do you think a prime SRR would fare against a prime Henry Armstrong? Or a prime Sam Longford? (He went from LW to HW)

Well an inexperienced 22 year old SRR beat a 31 year old Armstrong.

Langford was a Heavy, SRR was a natural welter, so that's a ridiculous question. How do you think Mayweather fares against Wlad? :rolleyes:

walshb

MrStuffins wrote: »

Someone needs to be introduced to P4P!

P4P is nothing but fantasy. The only real thing we can say, is that in the day, the greatest fighter on earth was the heavyweight champion of the world. This man was the KING of sport worldwide. That we know.

SRR was fantastic, amazing and all that, but bottom line, if he stepped in the ring vs. Louis, Marciano, Ali et al, he gets destroyed. Why should these big talented kings be penalised because on nature, and their size?

Anyway, my personal favorite is James Toney?

Why? Well, it's that ridiculous effortless and relaxed style. The guy never really trained all that mad, yet his style was so fluid, relaxed and effortless, that he was a guy that could probably go 100 rds. He used that amazing blend of sense, timing, shoulders, ducks, dips and dives to bewilder, and when needed, that steel chin took the best. He used an opponents aggression against them. So, even if he was tired, he got the second wind.

In all his fights from 160 to 200+ I have rarely ever seen him hut. I really believe that of all the fighters I have seen, HE would be the most difficult to KO. He had that chin AND defense.

For example. Hagler had a steel chin, but what use would it be against a 200 lb Holyfield or even a LH Spinks? See, with Toney, his defense was so damn good, that he rarely ever got hit clean, plus, when he did, he immediately covered and avoided a follow up. Hagler had the chin, but he could be hit
a lot easier and cleaner, and more regularly.

I am convinced that no man, Tyson and others included would KO or TKO
James Toney. Maybe if Toney was 160 lbs he could be broke, but when he moved above 175 lbs he was juts so tough and durable and resourceful.

He really did a number on Holfield, who was past his best, BUT so was Toney.
It was Toney who was 4-5 inches shorter and in a weight division that was not close to natural for him. Holyfield was a natural cruiser/heavy.

That Toney, or the Jirov version would still be a massive puzzle for any Holyfield. Like I said, defense, chin, durability and ridiculous old school skills
see him as a very tough opponent.

Watch the guys display vs. Barkley, Littles or even vs. Charles Williams. Amazing!

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

SRR was fantastic, amazing and all that, but bottom line, if he stepped in the ring vs. Louis, Marciano, Ali et al, he gets destroyed. Why should these big talented kings be penalised because on nature, and their size?

Because in boxing, we rate our fighters according to their skill, and not their size.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Because in boxing, we rate our fighters according to their skill, and not their size.

So, what do you see when you see a 15 stone peak Ali moving like a welter, punching as fast as a welter with balance, timing, rhythm, and all that.

That is simply the best of the best.

Like I said, SRR was the best non heavyweight I have ever seen, but in with the likes of Louis and some others, he is just another victim.

Louis too, watch that man throw punches. It's an amazing spectacle.

Also, a peak Mike Tyson throwing shots that would knock down buildings, with ridiculous accuracy, speed
and variation. This is IMO every bit as impressive and skilled as SRR

colly10

My favorite fighter was Roy Jones Jr in his prime, great to watch, so fast and skillful and a real showman

CorkMan

gene_tunney wrote: »

Because in boxing, we rate our fighters according to their skill, and not their size.

So not on punching power, heart and career durability aswell?

walshb

CorkMan wrote: »

So not on punching power, heart and career durability aswell?

Here is the thing. Who says I (AND YOU) are rating the great heavies on their size alone? I rate the great heavies as the best of all due to their skill, power, and ability, ability to blow a man away. I rate them so great, because even with their size, they are such fantastic athletes, and ever so in sync.

I have seen many spectacles in sport, but nothing as spectacular as a peak Ali in full flight, nothing as powerful and devastating as a peak Louis or Foreman or Tyson in punch mode, a Rocky Marciano beating away non stop, with real underrated subtle skills.

See, this isn't JUST to do with size; it's to do with what they can do with such size. That is the beauty of the great BIG men, and for that, nobody will convince me that a SRR or Duran or some others are the best ever.

To me, I think watching a 210-220 lb Tyson or Ali at their best beats anything from
a SRR/SRL/Duran/Pep/Saddler etc

megadodge

Well, if you mean that a 15 stone Ali would beat a 10 1/2 stone SRR, of course you're right. That's why there are weight divisions.

But that's where the mythical 'pound for pound' comes into play. I know it's impossible but it's an imaginary creation to keep the arguments going over "what if..."

I appreciate you don't buy into it and that's fair enough, but I think you should realise that's what others are referring to when they're talking about who's the greatest, etc.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Well, if you mean that a 15 stone Ali would beat a 10 1/2 stone SRR, of course you're right. That's why there are weight divisions.

But that's where the mythical 'pound for pound' comes into play. I know it's impossible but it's an imaginary creation to keep the arguments going over "what if..."

I appreciate you don't buy into it and that's fair enough, but I think you should realise that's what others are referring to when they're talking about who's the greatest, etc.

As you say, it is mythical. It can never be tested or proved. Hey, someone likes it, so be it. I suppose what strikes me as odd is how so many seem so definite with their views and assertions on this mythical scenario.

Anyway, as much as I find a peak Duran and Leonard and SRR and other great
fighters a joy to watch, there is for me just something extra special when watching the talents of two big powerful and devastating heavies go to war.

Many many examples. One that springs to mind is watching Bowe-Holyfield go at it. It was NOT just about the quality of the boxing, it was also the size, power and skill on display from such big men. That was in my mind a deal better than say Leonard-Hearns 1, Pryor-Arguello 1 and many other great non heavyweight clashes.

They are for their time the best boxers on earth. No man can beat them, damage them or frighten them, at least no smaller and lighter men from the divisions below.

Oh, I am strictly referring to the golden eras of he past. The current and very recent eras have not inspired me much, but one still must respect the "heavyweight champion." VK for example would still be a considerable force at any point in history for me.

It's not just boxing either. Take weightlifting, great sport and everyone loves it at the games, but it's all really down to the heavies and their fight for gold.
It is like heavyweight boxing, the premier division, blue riband.

pbffan

Prince Naseem: An out and out entertainer, he was never the greatest boxer in the world, but I couldn't get enough of him during those peak years. Who else in history arrived into the ring via a flying carpet? Nuff said

Floyd Mayweather: The single most talented boxer I've ever seen, I know a lot of people hate him, and with good reason, but whenever he steps into the ring, I'm just in complete awe

Mike Tyson: Personally I believe that Iron Mike was a tad overrated andwas not short of flaws, he didn't beat one Prime A level Heavyweight in hiscareer, but there was just something about him that meant we couldn't look away. We really shouldn't have invested so much time, money and interest into a convicted rapist who actually bit another man's ear during the middle of a fight, but Tyson was just....Tyson. As he once famously said "I can sell out Madison Square Garden masturbating"

Lennox Lewis: A class act through and through, never got the credit he deserved while he was at the top, especially from the Americans, but now that he's no longer fighting, the begrudgery finally seems to have disappeared

Erik Morales: Again, a class act. My only grievance with him is his decision to pursue a comeback - He's a good 5 years past his best and just doesn't have it anymore

Wild_Dogger

pbffan wrote: »

Prince Naseem: An out and out entertainer, he was never the greatest boxer in the world, but I couldn't get enough of him during those peak years. Who else in history arrived into the ring via a flying carpet? Nuff said

When things get me down in life , I find myself watching a re-run of Barrera administering the beating of a lifetime on Nasseem .

It always cheers me up

digme

Sergio Martinez no point in telling you why.

efb

Floyd Mayweather Jr

Watching him destroy the SS Myth that was Ricky Fatton in the MGM Grand was awesome.