Molar Crown-is Lava OK?

steve333

Hey all,
I need to get a crown replaced. I have nickel allergies so I wanted to go with a non metal Lava Crown. My new dentist says he can do this but prefers a porcelain fused to Gold Crown (he says the one he uses is 98% Gold!). My concern is putting metal into my mouth. I had suffered through some es (electrical sensitivity) issues before so that makes me nervous.
I am concerned that lava, though strong, may not be strong enough long term for a large molar.
Any opinions or experiences? Thanks.

davo10

If you had allergies to gold you would probably know by now (watch/chains/rings etc), ask about captek crowns, they are gold inside, porcelain outside but be aware that the price of gold now is high so lab costs are also high. Lava should be fine as long as you do not have a very strong bite nor grind your teeth but a porcelain fused to gold crown would be stronger.

steve333

Thanks for the reply,
I test out fine for Gold using the Clifford reactivity Test so allergies won't be an issue. It's more of a conductivity issue with the metal that I'm concerned about.
The dentist would prefer the Gold fused to porcelain because as you said it is stronger. I do have a grinding issue so that's a concern. I know of someone who has Lava Crowns on his molars and he said it's been no problem, but long term is my concern.

Big_G

My personal preference would be to go for Lava here or to make sure that if you get a PFG crown to have the intaglio tin plated so that you can bond it to the tooh. The weak point for both of these crowns is the veneering porcelain sometimes chips away. Your other option is to go for e-Max which is a lithium disilicate material that is pressed and has no veneering porcelain or even all zirconia.

In fairness both Lava and PFG will last a very long time if done well. If your dentist is confident in PFG go with that, galvanic currents are unlikely unless the gold is touching another metal restoration which it won't be because it is covered by veneering porcelain which is an insulator as you can imagine.

ballsymchugh

as i asked a demonstrator years ago when a patient complained of galvanic pain, it goes away.

steve333

I guess I'm concerned because of my electrical sensitivity, which seems to have dissipated lately but could return.
I will do more reasearch to see if Gold covered with porcelain affects them or not.
Most of what I read suggests that Lava is strong enough for a molar but I saw a couple of dentists mention they wouldn't use it on molars in favor of gold. I will keep reading.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Zirconia is fine for molars if they are prepared properly. You will need more tooth reduction than for a gold crown.

steve333

Asher Dry Memento wrote: »

Zirconia is fine for molars if they are prepared properly. You will need more tooth reduction than for a gold crown.

I don't have much tooth left as it is. This dentist is very picky about the lab he uses. He is actually replacing a Lava Crown I had done a few months ago by a different dentist who didn't do a good job. My new dentist says he uses a lab that charges a little more but does a good job, which is important for Lava crowns.

davo10

Gold crowns are very strong in thin cross section so there is less tooth reduction necessary. For a lava crown to have similar strength it needs to be thicker therefore more tooth reduction is necessary.

steve333

davo10 wrote: »

Gold crowns are very strong in thin cross section so there is less tooth reduction necessary. For a lava crown to have similar strength it needs to be thicker therefore more tooth reduction is necessary.

If it weren't for my es issues i would probably go for the gold fused to porcelain. Someone mentioned Belleglass crowns as another non metal crown but my dentist said it's too weak for large molars.

Mingetoad

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but the elephant in the room must be mentioned... please elaborate on the electrical sensitivity issues. From what I know it is still a very controversial subject and most blame is put on dissimilar metals causing a current. You are asking about Lava, which has a framework of zirconium oxide. Zirconium is a transition metal.

steve333

Supposedly zirconium doesn't affect those with es and doesn't create a battery effect like that can be had by mixing different metals like gold and nickel, etc.
I had reactions to electrical applicances and the metals in my crowns were making me feel odd for a while. It has lessened quite a bit but I had that crown removed that was showing metal above my gum line where it had receded.
I know I'm not allergic to Gold (or Lava Crowns) since I was tested with the Clifford Reactivity test. But Gold is more of a conductor than Zirconium.

Mingetoad

My understanding is that an amalgam core with a non or possible semi precious metal utilised in a core meeting would give rise to a potential problem. I really couldn't see how a high gold with full porcelain coverage would give rise to a problem. You would have very little current or voltage with this. Just make sure that the core is not amalgam.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Mingetoad Core and crown material doesn't matter as the cement is non electrolytic, you need moisture like saliva to get between the metals to act as an electrolyte, so its the opposing restoration or contacting restorations that matter.

steve333

Yes, the saliva acts as an electrolyte. It's possible that having all one type of crown, like a high content gold will not cause the battery effect there is still concern that having metals in your tooth meridians causes problems elsewhere in the body.
Also, the other 3 crowns in my mouth have nickel in them which could cause an issue. I am planning on replacing them but not all of them at once.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

steve333 wrote: »

tooth meridians .

Woah....I am staying out of this :eek:

Big_G

Wow, we have just fallen off the edge of reality into some Dali-esque world where the rules of experimental observation don't apply. I was willing to let the galvanic current comments lie, I chuckled to myself when I heard about the interference from electrical appliances, but tooth meridians? :rolleyes:

steve333

Big_G wrote: »

Wow, we have just fallen off the edge of reality into some Dali-esque world where the rules of experimental observation don't apply. I was willing to let the galvanic current comments lie, I chuckled to myself when I heard about the interference from electrical appliances, but tooth meridians? :rolleyes:

The teeth have connections to the organs of the body. This is nothing new.

ballsymchugh

i have to re-subscribe to this thread. just wanna know when someone mentions crystals.

steve333

Sometimes things we don't know about seem odd to us, but it doesn't mean they aren't true. I'm not talking about crystals but acupuncture is real and that was poo pooed years ago. Now, even western medicine realizes it is real.
As for the teeth, every organ in the body has a relation to some other area in the body. Teeth aren't just bone, there are nerves and blood vessels. This is a sample of a tooth meridian chart.There are better ones out there but I just googled it for a quick link. I don't know about the emotional part of the chart but the organ links are real:

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/tools/tooth-chart.html#

ballsymchugh

who said teeth are bone??

that chart hurts my eyes

i think i'll just go watch this. only 3 months and 9 days to go!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogetBqMgau0

Big_G

steve333 wrote: »

Sometimes things we don't know about seem odd to us, but it doesn't mean they aren't true. I'm not talking about crystals but acupuncture is real and that was poo pooed years ago. Now, even western medicine realizes it is real.
As for the teeth, every organ in the body has a relation to some other area in the body. Teeth aren't just bone, there are nerves and blood vessels. This is a sample of a tooth meridian chart.There are better ones out there but I just googled it for a quick link. I don't know about the emotional part of the chart but the organ links are real:

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/tools/tooth-chart.html#

You seem to misunderstand. Acupuncture in Eastern Medicine is used to treat imbalances in chi energy in various meridians throughout the body. In Western Medicine it is used in the treatment of pain and inflammation only. That is where its evidence base lies. Look up Gate-Control Theory of pain. I have seen it successfully used to control gag reflex also. So it works on the nervous system only, that is its only evidence base in science. So yes, western medicine has acknowledged the benefits of acupuncture in very specific cases.

As far as your argument goes, just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist...that is nonsense. Can you prove fairies don't exist? Well they must so...

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Big_G wrote: »

Can you prove fairies don't exist? Well they must so...

This thread proves that trolls exist

Mingetoad

Now chaps, I was willing to let this amble on, slowly seeing where it was going. 'Tooth meridiens' shops have been ignored to allow for the rest to come out.
That char is going up on my waiting room anyway. A whole new concept to drag in the patients, who needs Colgate Oral Health Month?!

steve333

OK, I will stop talking about this now, didn't mean to cause an uproar.

davo10

:rolleyes:

ballsymchugh

davo10 wrote: »

You all can laugh but Steve may be right, today I extracted a lower tooth, I had to pull real hard, no wonder, when I got it out the patient's liver, right lung, left knee cap and I'm not sure which big toe was attached to it, He limped out of the surgery wheezing and turning a funny shade of yellow, I wish I had known about those damn meridians.

at least he's alive though.

Big_G

Hilarity aside, Steve is entitled to his opinions and has proven his good faith by not trolling, so I think we'll leave this one be please everyone.