€46k in speeding fines in 2 and a half hours

brandon_flowers

A friend of mine recently got a job as a technician working on the new speed camera's that they are rolling out nationwide.

For testing purposes they set up a van on the N69 between Tralee and Listowel. It is the only section of this road where the limit is reduced from 100km/h to 50kmp/h.

They recorded 583 cars above the 50km/h limit in 150 minutes. At €80 a pop thats €46,640 and 1,166 penalty points.

The N69 is a busy road but it was still under 4 cars per minute passing the camera.

A license to rob money.

af_thefragile

Stick one on the N4 Lucan Bypass and they'll make that much every minute!

And why is the M50 speedlimit down to 100kmph?!

Cookie_Monster

af_thefragile wrote: »

Stick one on the N4 Lucan Bypass and they'll make that much every minute!

And why is the M50 speedlimit down to 100kmph?!

narrower lanes and sightlines is the BS reason they are giving. South of Sandyford it's still 120.


That an insane amount of money and I can see them all being setup in similar locations :mad:

Berty

See you cannot win.

People complained that Gardai prey on people on perfectly good roads but as soon as they put it on a really sh*t road like the Tralee to Listowel road people will still find something to complain about.

Not saying any of that is being said so far but it's early yet.

Cookie_Monster

Berty wrote: »

People complained that Gardai prey on people on perfectly good roads but as soon as they put it on a really sh*t road like the Tralee to Listowel road people will still find something to complain about.
.

why is it put on the only section that its 50 rather than 100 then, if no to catch the max number of people not slowing down quick enough?

Anan1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why is it put on the only section that its 50 rather than 100 then, if no to catch the max number of people not slowing down quick enough?

To encourage people to slow down quick enough when the limits change?

Cookie_Monster

Anan1 wrote: »

To encourage people to slow down quick enough when the limits change?

meh. sounds more like rev gen to me

Is this section one of the noted black spots that were supposed to be the areas the camera were to go?

EDIT: a quick look at google maps shows two villages at least on the road, if it was setup in either of them fair enough.

Berty

Anan1 wrote: »

To encourage people to slow down quick enough when the limits change?

Which can be more dangerous in fact because I have seen some people who brake very very hard as soon as they are parallel with the speed limit signs or people who floor it when they hit the 100kph after leaving a 50kph.

Fair enough some places have graduated speed limits but take the N7 for example. Its looks like a motorway but at Newlands cross it goes from 100kph to 50kph very quickly.

Anan1

Berty wrote: »

Which can be more dangerous in fact because I have seen some people who brake very very hard as soon as they are parallel with the speed limit signs or people who floor it when they hit the 100kph after leaving a 50kph.

Fair enough some places have graduated speed limits but take the N7 for example. Its looks like a motorway but at Newlands cross it goes from 100kph to 50kph very quickly.

Isn't that an argument against abrupt limit changes, rather than against speed cameras?

Berty

Anan1 wrote: »

Isn't that an argument against abrupt limit changes, rather than against speed cameras?

Yes but the cameras will/may also capitalise on those areas or on areas where the speed limit is slightly contentious so if the speed camera operators canvass these areas then the argument is the similar because of impact.

Saab Ed

brandon_flowers wrote: »

They recorded 583 cars above the 50km/h limit in 150 minutes. At €80 a pop thats €46,640 and 1,166 penalty points.
.

I have no objection to speed cameras in the right places at all. What I have a major objection to is the current nimrods who run this country getting their corrupt , theiving , braindead , lazy , gobsh!te hands on even more of our money to squander.

Unlesss this money goes directly back into road safety infrastructure and improvements instead of the bigger government coffers then its a pile of b0ll0cks :cool:

Anan1

Berty wrote: »

Yes but the cameras will/may also capitalise on those areas or on areas where the speed limit is slightly contentious so if the speed camera operators canvass these areas then the argument is the similar because of impact.

What do you mean by 'slightly contentious'?:)

Flyer1

Perfect example.

I live just off the old N25. The bypass recently opened so the road has been downgraded from 100km/h to 80km/h.

There is a perfectly straight stretch and driving at 100km/h is safe and to my memory there has never been an accident on this stretch.

Previous to the downgrade on speed limit I can't recall there being many speeding checks, since this downgrade, those new Gatso vans are on it almost every day. Even up to 10pm at night i've seen them.

They've also gone away from the traditional white transit, they are now using Iveco's and the likes. So far i've seen a yellow and a white one. Very sneaky stuff as it definitely isn't a safety issue.

Berty

Anan1 wrote: »

What do you mean by 'slightly contentious'?:)

There is a "new" speed limit near where I live. Its on the R503 from Limerick to Thurles. The council have only managed to widen one section which is around 400 mtrs long and its the only place to overtake for maybe 30kms(safely at least without flooring it).

Anyway, they reduced the limit to 60kph from 80kph and I have asked 2 local councillors and the Co Council to check why it is so.

The Gardai freakin love the spot.

That is a contentious example because it shouldn't be 60kph.

GhostInTheRuins

How much leeway do the gardaí and these cameras give on breaking the limit? You can hardly be caught for going 53kmph in a 50kmph zone can you?

galwaytt

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

How much leeway do the gardaí and these cameras give on breaking the limit? You can hardly be caught for going 53kmph in a 50kmph zone can you?

Yes you can. The camera system's don't use a 'fuzzy' logic: either above, or below, the limit, that's it.

Here's another reason roads are downgraded: for instance, a section of N6 is now the R-something. ...It was a national primary route, 100kph, and then all of a sudden........it's not. What happened ? Well, it got safer, for a start, but the limit on it still got lowered.

My SO pointed out that by downgrading it from N to R, it's maintenance requirement was different............ahhhhhh, so it's about the money, then.......why doesn't that surprise me ?

x in the city

Berty wrote: »

See you cannot win.

People complained that Gardai prey on people on perfectly good roads but as soon as they put it on a really sh*t road like the Tralee to Listowel road people will still find something to complain about.

Not saying any of that is being said so far but it's early yet.

more bs from the guards, that is a c0ck of a road, the only decent stretch of it they flag cameras :rolleyes:

for the remainder of it you are stuck behind some gobheens in tractors doing 10km/hr or a mirca doing 25 km/hr (3 of them in a row probably)

Anan1

Flyer1 & Berty - That's a fair point. Does anyone know who picks the locations for these new cameras and how? Will they be allocated specific locations, or just areas/sections of road?

mullingar

Give it a few weeks and you will see some of these on the roads:



Loads more pics here:

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

mikemac

A place where I see very regular speed checks is in Dublin, by Mt Temple school on Malahide Rd.

It's downhill, drivers do speed down that road and the school has a concealed entrance.
And kids being kids, not all will hang around for the pedestrian crossing.

Now there is an ideal place for a speed check.

Not sure about the place in the OP

Flesh Gorden

mullingar wrote: »

Give it a few weeks and you will see some of these on the roads:

Are they not mobile?

I taught they were meant to be an ordinary looking transit on the side of the road



Typical that at a time when parts of the Uk are removing them, Ireland start to roll them out

Agent_47

Anyone know what the story is with the speed camera on the last Gantry before the Knocklyon junction on the m50 northbound?
Marks on the road, no camera sign and catching everyone out as you sweep down towards the Tallaght junction. 100KPH at that section but regulary everyone doing 120 KPH.

corktina

I suppose no right thinking person would object to speed cameras in places where they contribute to safety but a lot of the time the Gards (and no doubt private camera operators in the future) bring themselves into disrepute with their siting of speed traps.

Take the N20 at Rathduff, Cork. A major road running through a dangerous enough crossroads, its wide and straight and all there is to tell you there is a limit is the actiual 60km/h signs. The gards often have a trap here, but do they have it before the hazardous crossroads? NO, they have it after it, where people are accelerating away towards the end of the limit. (All thats needed here in fact are some road markings or road calming measures to bring it home to people there is a speed limit.)

KTRIC

Now would these be forward or rear facing cameras ??

Anan1

corktina wrote: »

I suppose no right thinking person would object to speed cameras in places where they contribute to safety

TBH I think a lot of Irish people would, although they perhaps wouldn't be that honest about it.

-Corkie-

Anan1 wrote: »

Flyer1 & Berty - That's a fair point. Does anyone know who picks the locations for these new cameras and how? Will they be allocated specific locations, or just areas/sections of road?

As far as I know they will be on roads that have high death statistics.

mullingar

-Corkie- wrote: »

As far as I know they will be on roads that have high death statistics

LMAO

I reckon about 25% of them will be on these roads, the other 75% will be primarily revenue generation on safe roads.

RedXIV

galwaytt wrote: »

Yes you can. The camera system's don't use a 'fuzzy' logic: either above, or below, the limit, that's it.

Not 100% accurate, the cameras will have a 2km leeway

How generous is that

Wibbs

Of course this is more to do with revenue than safety. I'm surprised people think it's anything else TBH. We will be bullshítted about their placement and treated to the usual holy joe BS about safety that the Irish lap up. If it was safety, they would have big yellow speed cameras on actual blackspots with plenty of warnings. In the majority of cases stealth mode cameras are for revenue generation and eff all else. In the UK they've as much as admitted it. Funny we only love to ape any moves they make, yet we've decided to take a complete about turn on their experience this time. The company and the government are set to make a lot of money off the back of this. Well the latter need it as a result of their fcukups in the last decade. Nice little earner alright.

The "safety" stuff gets farcical at times. Look at the NCT. A good idea. No probs there for the most part. Now look at how many penalty points you will garner for not having one. Five and a mandatory court appearance and fine. Then look at the list of penalty points awarded for different offences. Check it out http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/new_penpoints_chart_apl09.pdf Look at the points you get for serious and dangerous, potentially fatal offences. Going the wrong way up a bloody motorway is two points if you don't contest it. Driving on the wrong side of the road/going the wrong way around a roundabout/ignoring a Garda signal/even failure to stop for a bloody school lollipop lady are just one FFS Why the disparity? Safety? Eh not really. More to do with the fact that the previous company charged with running the NCT were threatening to sue for loss of earnings.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

The "safety" stuff gets farcical at times. Look at the NCT. A good idea. No probs there for the most part. Now look at how many penalty points you will garner for not having one. Five and a mandatory court appearance and fine. Then look at the list of penalty points awarded for different offences. Check it out http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/new_penpoints_chart_apl09.pdf

OH pointed out in germany, you get more points for speeding than attaching a siren to impersonate a police officer.
So... :pac:

Saruman

Agent_47 wrote: »

Anyone know what the story is with the speed camera on the last Gantry before the Knocklyon junction on the m50 northbound?
Marks on the road, no camera sign and catching everyone out as you sweep down towards the Tallaght junction. 100KPH at that section but regulary everyone doing 120 KPH.

Is there actually a camera there yet? I can not see one.

Kensington

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Typical that at a time when parts of the Uk are removing them, Ireland start to roll them out

Are they not removing GATSO's because they're replacing them with the newer SPECS system though? I can see SPECS becoming popular over here, especially on the M50, they'd make a killing...

Seth Brundle

There isn't one there yet - be patient!

djimi

Wibbs wrote: »

The "safety" stuff gets farcical at times. Look at the NCT. A good idea. No probs there for the most part. Now look at how many penalty points you will garner for not having one. Five and a mandatory court appearance and fine. Then look at the list of penalty points awarded for different offences. Check it out http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/new_penpoints_chart_apl09.pdf Look at the points you get for serious and dangerous, potentially fatal offences. Going the wrong way up a bloody motorway is two points if you don't contest it. Driving on the wrong side of the road/going the wrong way around a roundabout/ignoring a Garda signal/even failure to stop for a bloody school lollipop lady are just one FFS Why the disparity? Safety? Eh not really. More to do with the fact that the previous company charged with running the NCT were threatening to sue for loss of earnings.

Im pretty sure some of the offenses mentioned, such as driving the wrong way down a motorway, would also be accompanied by a prosecution for dangerous driving or seriously endangering the lives of others or something like that, so 2 penalty points would most likely be the least of your worries!

daRobot

Kensington wrote: »

Are they not removing GATSO's because they're replacing them with the newer SPECS system though? I can see SPECS becoming popular over here, especially on the M50, they'd make a killing...

Just imagine the chaos on the M50 with SPECS, and this info being applied.

SPECS speed cameras and how to avoid the points


A massive flaw in a new generation of speed camera means that motorists can avoid fines and points on their licence simply by changing lanes.

The Home Office admitted last night that drivers can avoid being caught the by hi-tech ‘SPECS’ cameras which calculate a car’s average speed over a long distance.

The astonishing loophole means that millions of speeding drivers around the UK could escape a £60 fine and three points on their licence. The hidden blind spot, revealed by the Daily Mail raises questions about the supposedly foolproof hi-tech camera system which is increasingly used on Britain’s roads.

Although designed to improve road safety, the loophole means that drivers may actually increase the risk of accidents by continually switching lanes.

Police chiefs were last night forced to urge drivers not to exploit the shortcoming by trying to evade the cameras.

The flaw affects the controversial SPECS cameras. Unlike standard Gatso cameras which individually flash a car as it passes, these cameras measure a driver’s average speed between two fixed points which can be many miles apart.

If the average speed between cameras is higher than the speed limit, the driver gets a fine through the post and three points on their licence.

The cameras were designed to catch motorists who simply slow down in front of a camera, and then drive above the speed limit until they reach the next one.

But, under Home Office rules governing the camera equipment, prosecutions are only valid if a driver is filmed in the same lane at the start and finish of each section by a linked pair of cameras.

The Home Office admitted yesterday that the hi-tech SPECS cameras produced by Camberley based Speed Check Services are only approved to be used one lane at a time.

That means a three lane motorway would require three separate sets of cameras one for each lane. If drivers leave the speed camera zone via a different lane to the one they entered in, they cannot normally be prosecuted.

The camera’s manufacturers, Speed Check Services (SCS) confirmed that drivers could escape prosecution by lane hopping but discouraged it on ’safety’ grounds.

Sets of the cameras have been installed at 27 sites around the UK at a cost of between £180,000 and £1.5 million per site according to Geoff Collins, SCS’s sales and marketing manager.

Fourteen of the sites are permanent while another 13 are temporary at road works, where their presence has mushroomed in recent years. Sites that run for longer distances cost more because they need more cameras.

They include permanent cameras around Nottingham, a 20mph zone around Tower Bridge in London, the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow, and at roadworks on the M6 in the West Midlands, the M25, the A1(M) and the M1 in Hertfordshire, the A2 in Kent, and the M56 in Cheshire.

The SPECS cameras work by measuring the time a vehicle takes to pass between two number plate reading cameras set up to 6.2 miles apart.

A computer works out the time it takes to cover the distance, and then calculates the average speed.

If this is higher than the speed limit, a colour photograph taken by a third digital camera is stored for enforcement purposes. Multiple sets of the cameras are installed on stretches of road to make ‘enforcement zones’.

But under Home Office ‘type approval’ rules, each individual set cannot be linked to any of the others. So cars are timed only between sets of number plate readers ‘paired’ for the same lane.

Most of the time each number plate reader in a pair will be directed at the same single lane of traffic and will therefore not detect lane hoppers, according to Mr Collins. He said:’ If it’s configured to monitor one particular lane, then it wouldn’t pick up a lane changer.’

He added: ‘There are configurations when (a speeding vehicle) would not be picked up, if it’s gone from lane one to lane three between cameras.’

The company’s technical director Graeme Southwood said that when the devices were approved by the Home Office in 1999, they passed strict tests for use in one lane at a time. But there was not enough time or finances to extend Home office approval tests to cover the cameras’ use over two or three lanes at a time. This has created the loop-hole.

He still claimed without spelling out any detail, that this loop hole was not actually foolproof and that some of those who attempt to use it will still face a speeding prosecution.

Med Hughes, head of roads policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said it would be ‘irresponsible’ and dangerous for drivers to change lanes in a bid to avoid detection, adding that motorists would ‘not be able to guarantee’ they could avoid being penalised if they changed lanes.

Mr Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, said: ‘Motorists who change lanes in average speed detection lanes, such as major road works, will not be able to guarantee avoiding detection. Multiple enforcement systems are often used and detection zones will vary depending on the placement of the equipment.’

‘Motorists are strongly advised not to seek to evade detection by unnecessarily changing lanes as this would generate a greater risk of collision and may lead to other offences being committed which the police may prosecute.

‘These camera systems are designed to make our roads safer by reducing speed and casualties. It is irresponsible for motorists to deliberately seek to evade detection and speed.’

A spokeswoman for the Home Office said: ‘The manufacturers applied for the camera to be type-approved to measure one lane only. It has been type-approved for this use, this can be either the lane under the camera or a lane to either side of it.’

‘A SPECS camera measures a vehicles speed over distance in one lane.’

Motoring groups say police are putting too much reliance on cash-raising speed cameras which can fine a driver a few miles above the speed limit - but are unable to spot a dangerous, drunk, uninsured, or untaxed driver in an unroadworthy or stolen vehicle who is driving under the speed limit.

Last year more than 2 million motorists were caught speeding on camera, raising £120m a year in revenue for so-called ‘Safety Camera Partnerships’ comprising police, magistrates councils and road safety groups.

Speed cameras have boomed on British roads from a handful a decade ago to 3,300 fixed sites and 3,400 mobile devices today. At the same time there has been an 11 per cent cut in police patrols.

Edmund King, director of the RAC Foundation, said: ‘I think the danger might be that you get people playing Russian Roulette and nipping from one lane to another to lessen their odds of being caught. They won’t know entirely but they might think there’s more chance.’

mullingar

Saruman

Epic Fail

Tragedy

That's old hat, switching lanes hasn't worked for almost a year.

daRobot

Y'all have completely missed the tone of my post.

I'm well aware that info is incorrect, but there's a lot of people who still believe it, and would do it should SPECS be introduced on our beloved M50.

slimjimmc

daRobot wrote: »

Just imagine the chaos on the M50 with SPECS, and this info being applied.

So there's no issue with SPECS itself just an example of some silly legalities applied in a foreign jurisdiction.

daRobot wrote: »

Y'all have completely missed the tone of my post.

I'm well aware that info is incorrect, but there's a lot of people who still believe it, and would do it should SPECS be introduced on our beloved M50.

Yeah, a bit like the old CD v speed gun myth.

Yakult

brandon_flowers wrote: »

For testing purposes they set up a van on the N69 between Tralee and Listowel. It is the only section of this road where the limit is reduced from 100km/h to 50kmp/h.

They recorded 583 cars above the 50km/h limit in 150 minutes. At €80 a pop thats €46,640 and 1,166 penalty points.

The N69 is a busy road but it was still under 4 cars per minute passing the camera.
.

I saw that van, but not on a 50km/h section of the road? It was on the wider stretch of road about 5 miles outside tralee which definally is 100km/h. And its pretty sneaky too, as thats pretty much the only stretch of the road where you can over take safely. Terrible road btw for the amount of traffic that uses it.

Adam Selene

Does anyone know is the system is laser or radar based yet?

daRobot

Adam Selene wrote: »

Does anyone know is the system is laser or radar based yet?

Radar for fixed and mobile Gatsos.

Laser for Gardai with handheld or tripod "guns"

-Corkie-

daRobot wrote: »

Radar for fixed and mobile Gatsos.

Laser for Gardai with handheld or tripod "guns"

I think its time to be investing in some technology because these new cameras dont have any leniancy as opposed to a cop with a gun etc.

Voodoomelon

Just something to bear in mind, I compared my speedometer last night in comparison to my GPS camera which records the road and my position over 4-5 miles on the M1 and the speedometer under reads by exactly 5%.

So now I can do 126.28kph with no worries.

Tragedy

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Just something to bear in mind, I compared my speedometer last night in comparison to my GPS camera which records the road and my position over 4-5 miles on the M1 and the speedometer under reads by exactly 5%.

So now I can do 126.28kph with no worries.

One of my cars is exactly 1% under speedo at all times.
The other is 6%.

No point telling people to bear something in mind that's completely different for everyone!

P.C.

KTRIC wrote: »

Now would these be forward or rear facing cameras ??

Anyone know the answer to this?

Do these camers face the traffic, and take a picture of the front of your car, or do they get the speed as you go past, and then take a picture of the rear of the car?

Dubluc

Easiest way to avoid being caught speeding is to obey the speed limit. Why all the ifs, ands, buts, and maybes? Just obey the posted speed limit. I don't care if you agree with the speed limit or not that's a completely different matter and if you strongly believe any limit should be changed contact your local TD or MCC and lobby to get it changed. In the meantime obey the limit!