Ready to give up...

hammyj

I've just finished my BA in psychology with good results and I've been looking for a job as an assistant psychologist, paid or unpaid. I have tried really hard and phoned, emailed and written to as many as I could find contact details for, and also made follow up contact, but I've had no luck. Why is clinical psychology such a hard profession to break into? And even if I get experience and go on to do a research masters, am I even guaranteed a place on a clinical course? I feel like I'm wasting my time and that I should maybe think of another profession.

Gibs

Hang in there- it's early days yet. All of us working in the area have been where you are now. Jobs are scarce in psychology but if you keep plugging away you are likely get a break sooner or later. Assistant psychology posts are very rare in Ireland but there are other ways to get into the profession. Most people who succeed in getting on a training course will have at least a masters as well as a BA s perhaps that is the route to go? a survey just published this month in the Irish psychologist reported that most people on training courses are at least in their late twenties. Read some of the stickies above. You may be a little unrealistic to expect a job as an assistant psychologist straight after a BA. Talk to your lecturers - they may be able to help you do some research with a clinical element.

It unfortunately just takes quite a while for most people. It's totally worth it in the end, IMHO anyway.

Odysseus

Whilst a lot of people move into different professions after a psych degree, I would say don't get too disheartened, how long is it since you finished your degree? I speak as a psychotherapist which can be a much shorter road into clinical practice, depending on where you want to go.

However, it's over a decade since I gained my first clinical qualification; I work full time in a clinical setting, have run a small private practice, and do a small amount of lecturing. I am still developing my career, this year I started a five year plan; which if it goes to plan will see me having 3 Masters before I start my PhD. The next two years are certain as I start my second Masters next week, but plans don't always go as they should.

The one thing I do know is I don't plan to start a PhD until about 5 years down the road. I have had many set-backs during the last ten years, but if you want to work with people clinically you have to encounter these set-backs, I would imagine most people here have encountered their fair share of frustration and set-backs during the course of their career, many of us had to do voluntary work in order to get some experience and get a foot in the door.

As I said I speak as a psychotherapist, the qualifications and entry requirements for post-grad training isn't as difficult as clinical psychology. However, I trained as a psychoanalytic psychotherapist and the training, clinical supervision, and personal therapy for psychoanalysis is much longer that other schools of psychotherapy, but worth it in my opinion of course;)

So basically what I'm saying is you have a long, difficult and very demanding road ahead of you. If you only completed your primary degree within the past year I would say its very early days to be considering packing it in. I was lucky in that I was interested in the field of addiction, and at the time I was starting the requirements for entry into employment were different. I had full time work in a clinical position straight after my BA.

I had qualified as a counsellor by the time I started my Masters; unfortunately the work climate has changed since then. The one thing I would say is if you can afford it get the Masters in an area that will help you gain entry into a clinical programme. One you start work, you start to gather commitments; and this can affect your ability to go back to college.

When I was deciding what Masters to do this year, the contact hours were a strong factor in my final choice, as I have to take the time off work to attend. Anyway I am probably starting to ramble now, so I hope this was of some help to you.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

sambuka41

Oh man i feel your pain!!!! I finished my degree 4 years ago. They really dont prepare you for the reality of the situation!! What i would say is that i took work in the area of social care and its been fantastic experience. If you could go straight to masters then more power to ya but if your looking for work social care work is going to benefit you when you are making your applications.

Im starting a HDip this year (work commitments meaning this is all i cant commit to this year) and then going onto do a masters in psychotherapy next year. Once I have worked for a while then I'll look at the possibility of Phd after that. I think work experience is key to help with learning cause you will have real world examples of the theories.

Good luck with it!!

looksee

A quick injection of reality here - its not just Psychology, there are thousands of people out there trying to get on the employment ladder (or indeed, have falled off it), in all types of jobs.

Nolanger

Would you do volunteering work? Counselling, that sort of thing?

Pinker

hammyj wrote: »

I've just finished my BA in psychology with good results and I've been looking for a job as an assistant psychologist, paid or unpaid. I have tried really hard and phoned, emailed and written to as many as I could find contact details for, and also made follow up contact, but I've had no luck. Why is clinical psychology such a hard profession to break into? And even if I get experience and go on to do a research masters, am I even guaranteed a place on a clinical course? I feel like I'm wasting my time and that I should maybe think of another profession.

It sounds like you aren't really dedicated to Psychology as a career, if there was ever an area that requires a vocational attitude it would be Psychology.

I would say yes, please give up, you seem to have done very little research on the area, you also appear to have tried to secure one specific type of job and once that didn't work out as hoped you want to quit. I for one hope you don't ever practice as a Psychologist, I certainly wouldn't like someone with such an absence of lateral thinking or problem solving skills taking care of the mental health of others.

JuliusCaesar

Pinker that is a really unhelpful response. You are being warned.

Valmont

Keep the head up OP, I graduated in 09 and I'm pulling pints on the side of my masters at the moment to keep a roof over my head and the way I see it is that I'm just getting going in looking for something substantial in my spare time. Just remember to keep networking, if there's one thing I've noticed in psychology it's that the people who have the right connections tend to get the jobs rich in valuable experience. Shame, I know, but that's life.

@Pinker, ironic that you criticise the OP when your caustic and reactive post emphasises another batch of traits completely unsuited to a career in psychology.

hammyj

I have researched it actually, and the reason why I really want work experience isnt just to make my applications more substantial but to get direct experience of the profession, to make sure I can really do it.

Also, they've now cut funding from the clinical doctoral programme in Ireland, how is anyone but rich people going to be able to afford it?

JuliusCaesar

hammyj wrote: »

how is anyone but rich people going to be able to afford it?

This worries me too. The amount of time that clin psych candidates have to spend doing voluntary work militates against a good mix.

Anyway, Hammyj, just go for jobs where you work with a lot of people, talk with a lot of people: care assistant, nurses aide, volunteering. This will give you experience of dealing with people who need help and is relevant. It's difficult if not impossible to put unqualified people in a position where they 'do' the job of a qualified person - our patients/clients aren't guinea pigs! Assistant psychology jobs are few and far between, and most of them already have experience in the kinds of jobs/voluntary work I've mentioned.

LilMrsDahamsta

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

just go for jobs where you work with a lot of people, talk with a lot of people: care assistant, nurses aide, volunteering. This will give you experience of dealing with people who need help and is relevant. It's difficult if not impossible to put unqualified people in a position where they 'do' the job of a qualified person - our patients/clients aren't guinea pigs! Assistant psychology jobs are few and far between, and most of them already have experience in the kinds of jobs/voluntary work I've mentioned.

I agree completely with the advice above regarding initial job hunting. However, I would like to point out that in my own experience the clinical courses do now stick quite strictly to the "minimum one year experience supervised by a clinical psychologist" criterion before admission. I myself have several years of experience as a care assistant, researcher, volunteer and of working on the administrative side of in-patient mental health. Yet as recently as last year I was told not to apply by two of the four clinical courses as my experience did not count toward this criterion as I was not supervised by a clinical psychologist, and the other two courses made the same point at a later stage in the application process. It seems to me now that in retrospect much of the experience I have tried so hard to gain over the last six years will not actually be considered experience by the courses I am trying to gain admission to. The types of roles described above will certainly improve your chances of getting experience supervised by a psychologist, but I just wanted to highlight that at the end of the day they do not seem to be a substitute for it from the perspective of the courses. I hope this helps!

Odysseus

Just on the supervision side on things, even in psychotherapy I am aware of people engaged in volunteer work and having to pay for clinical supervision. It's a terrible shame that people are giving up their time to help in a voluntary role; but in order to have that work recognised they do need clinical supervision.

Supervision is vital for the continuation of a therapist’s development; even now at my stage of development it is as fundamental as it was when I started out.

OP have you tried any of the usual suspects around getting some voluntary work? It is becoming harder to get good voluntary positions as the organisations themselves have much better candidates looking for opportunities as opposed to a few years ago. However, don't let that put you off, as noted above getting know in an area through networking is a good way to get your foot in the door; so to speak.

sambuka41

LilMrsDahamsta wrote: »

I agree completely with the advice above regarding initial job hunting. However, I would like to point out that in my own experience the clinical courses do now stick quite strictly to the "minimum one year experience supervised by a clinical psychologist" criterion before admission.

Is that for the Phd?? Cause you really do need a masters to get into it. With the masters comes the experience with clinical psychologist. (depending on the masters of course)

I seen an assistant psychologist job being advertised about 1 month ago and they were actually looking for a postgraduate qualification in psychology to masters level!!!!!:eek: ha sure that defeats the point. You are a psychologist after your masters?????

OP if you work in social care as any of the many jobs listed you will know soon enough if you are cut out to work with people I advise working with adolescents first, if you survive there you can survive anywhere:D

Really I dont think these jobs should be discarded or considered not as good as assistant psy, they are absolutely invaluable experience,,and its front line stuff. It only gets easier after this!!! (or quieter at least,I'd settle for not have things thrown at me!!;))

cathy01

OP, I am a member of a ADHD group (www.adhd.ie)and also a ASD (www.fingalautism.com)support group.If you EVER EVER want to help out in anyway, suporting parents, doing up IEPs with parents and teachers please please let me know. 3 year waiting list to get help from people like you, cant believe that your looking for voluntery work .
Open arms here.
Cathy

vallo

There are lots of voluntary opportunities here, great experience and great CV building stuff.

hammyj

Cathy that sounds great! Thanks so much for the suggestion, who should I get in contact with? Can you explain a bit more about the groups? Thanks for all your help

JuliusCaesar

Hammj, Cathy - you might find it easier to use the Private Message system. Just click on the other person's name & you'll find it.
No phone numbers or contact details here!
(Although you can give an organisation's website of course.)
Glad to have brought you together!
JC

hammyj

Hello, I thought I should follow up on this thread after I originally posted in September.

Its now 7 months later, and I have been working as an Assistant Psychologist in a disability setting, with children with Autism. Although I was feeling quite deflated with the lack of opportunities for graduate psychology back in September, I decided to persist and after much harrassment and many phone calls and emails, I managed to find an ideal opportunity. I could not be happier with this experience, and most importantly it has given me the certainty and the motivation to continue to pursue a career in clinical psychology. I can honestly say I absolutely love working with children with Autism.

Also I have been volunteering with Bodywhys since October, providing support for people affected by eating disorders.

I just want to say to anyone who feels like they are struggling to get get a foot on the ladder, that if you really want it, keep going and you will eventually get your break. Don't give up until you've explored every avenue, and don't forget that even if you start with something small, experience will lead to greater opportunties. I was never a model student and do not have a first degree, but I'm determined to make it happen.

H.

psycjay

I think you need to think outside the box, and by "the box" I mean clinical psychology... There are many other areas which a psyc degree can lead to, and lots of other postgrads available that arn't as difficult to get into. I'm not saying give up, but from what I have heard most people who do manage to get into clinical, do not go the direct route.

JuliusCaesar

Thanks for the follow-up, hammyj! Good to hear a story with a good outcome!

Dave!

Good to hear it

samsamson

Can somebody clear this up for me, since a comment by another poster earlier in the thread gave me the heebie jeebies...

When applying for a phd in Clinical Psychology, do they only consider experience as relevant if you have been supervised by a clinical psychologist for the duration of it?

So for example, if someone had spent a few years with the Samaritans or something, that would be completely ignored?

hammyj

Experience with Samaritans will not be ignored and will be considered very worthwhile experience. However they do prefer your 'clinical experience' to be supervised by an actual clinical psychologist. Having said that, only having clinical experience isn't enough these days and you need plenty of other experience in other settings such as samaritans to back it up. Also research experience is important, so basically you need a variety of experiences for a strong application.

neuro1990

I am a graduate of Psychology and at first I could not find anything and felt upset and nervous that I would never get an assistant psychologist job and therefore never earn enough experience for postgrad, however, I went to my department and the lecturers were more than happy to help me by providing good references and e-mailed me whenever they heard of an assistant job or research job with a clinical psychologist. Also if you check out the PSI website there should be a list of psychologists, either ring them and ask for advice or send them a hard copy of your CV and a cover letter explaining that you would like the opportunity to work with a psychologist. I personally found that the majority that I spoke too were very helpful. Be prepared to have a part-time job on the side, I am also waitressing as so far my assistant job is voluntary and I also work for non-profit organisations to gain experience. Don't give up, you will find someone to help you out and if you love psychology you will find something even if it takes a lot of knocking on strange doors

cbs28

hammyj wrote: »

I've just finished my BA in psychology with good results and I've been looking for a job as an assistant psychologist, paid or unpaid. I have tried really hard and phoned, emailed and written to as many as I could find contact details for, and also made follow up contact, but I've had no luck. Why is clinical psychology such a hard profession to break into? And even if I get experience and go on to do a research masters, am I even guaranteed a place on a clinical course? I feel like I'm wasting my time and that I should maybe think of another profession.

hammyj, I know you wrote this quite some time ago, but when reading it I felt like I wrote it! I read your update and was wondering how you eventually found your assistant psych. job? Iv seen a few on FAS but none are in Dublin at the moment, and I've a small phonebook worth of numbers of psychologists that I'm hounding!

Any insights would be much appreciated, I feel like I'm going around in circles trying to break into the profession!

JuliusCaesar

cbs28 wrote: »

hammyj, I know you wrote this quite some time ago, but when reading it I felt like I wrote it! I read your update and was wondering how you eventually found your assistant psych. job? Iv seen a few on FAS but none are in Dublin at the moment, and I've a small phonebook worth of numbers of psychologists that I'm hounding!

Any insights would be much appreciated, I feel like I'm going around in circles trying to break into the profession!

Hi cbs28, hammj did report back in post 19 above, about a month ago. Neuro1990 in post 25 also gave her account of her experiences.

EmilieJolie

Some great info on here, thanks everyone for sharing! I'm hoping to go into Educational Psychology and am also looking for relevant experience if anyone has any advice.
HammyJ could you say how you found your position working in the area of Autism? Would be something I would love to get involved in, Thanks

SynapticRhythm

It's great to see perseverance paying off. It gives me a little hope because I'm in the exact same position now. I just finished my training with Aware whilst keeping up a day job to support myself. I had hoped that I may find something that will be both great work experience and a means of support but it would seem an unrealistic hope in the current climate.