derry patrick herd

blue5000

I see on IFJ where only 54% of the derrypatrick herd in Grange scanned in calf. Problems with ai were made worse when 2 BB bulls were used without being fertility tested first. What do you think?

whelan1

goes to show nobody's perfect;) think there where alot of repeats all round this year and maybe the 7 week ai stint mightn't have been long enough there

LivInt20

blue5000 wrote: »

I see on IFJ where only 54% of the derrypatrick herd in Grange scanned in calf. Problems with ai were made worse when 2 BB bulls were used without being fertility tested first. What do you think?

The pregnancy rate is more like 73%

The 54% figure you quote is for one group of cows running with one stock bull.

http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/grange/researchfarms/sucklerdemo/updates/

LivInt20

whelan1 wrote: »

goes to show nobody's perfect;) think there where alot of repeats all round this year and maybe the 7 week ai stint mightn't have been long enough there

I see the Teagasc Grange herd "DERRYPATRICK HERD" used Blonde bulls on heifers last year and again this year.

Is a Blonde Bull the way to go for Heifers?

What are Blonde weanlings like for selling in the mart?

Are Blonde Bulls suitable for use on Blue Heifers, or would there be too much muscle involved and therefore difficult calving?

Anyone any experience of using Blonde d’Aquitaine Sires on their Suckler Herd.

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

adne

LivInt20 wrote: »

I see the Teagasc Grange herd "DERRYPATRICK HERD" used Blonde bulls on heifers last year and again this year.

Is a Blonde Bull the way to go for Heifers?

What are Blonde weanlings like for selling in the mart?

Are Blonde Bulls suitable for use on Blue Heifers, or would there be too much muscle involved and therefore difficult calving?

Anyone any experience of using Blonde d’Aquitaine Sires on their Suckler Herd.

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

You trying to hijack every thread to get your answers to this... stick to the topic of the thread ...
:mad::mad:

LivInt20

adne wrote: »

You trying to hijack every thread to get your answers to this... stick to the topic of the thread ...
:mad::mad:

It is related to the Derry Patrick herd where my original query arrived from.

adne

LivInt20 wrote: »

It is related to the Derry Patrick herd where my original query arrived from.

You already have a thread on this exact topic
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056024704

If multiple threads cover the same topic the board will be filled with un structured posts:mad::mad:

whelan1

in fairness how many people actually get their bull fertility tested before they buy it ... we have been selling bulls for the last 15 -20 years and no one ever got a bull fertility tested before they bought it

pakalasa

This must be embarassing for them. If I remember right, they lost a lot of calves at calving too.
At least, they're being honest, nothing hidden, warts and all !

Tora Bora

pakalasa wrote: »

This must be embarassing for them. If I remember right, they lost a lot of calves at calving too.
At least, they're being honest, nothing hidden, warts and all !

Tax payer picking up the tab for bad management or bad luck. No worries there. Now of that were a private farmer needing to refinance with our zombie banks as a result, what would happen?.

vanderbadger

you would wonder how practical these trials are, I know a chap who they sourced a few heifers from, basically they traveled around the country after particular heifers and paid well over the odds for them..maybe they are trying to show the best case scenario but i mean what farmer can do that, and as someone said they seemed to loose alot of calves and now this, surely to god someone noticed cows repeating..pretty embarrasing stuff I reckon

blue5000

I think myself they are trying to stock the cattle too tightly, 3 Lu /ha is the target. During the breeding season I think 55% of the farm was closed up for silage, that left about 6 cows/ha, somone correct me if I'm wrong.

If there are any mineral deficiencies on the farm the amount of N they had to use to carry that amount of cattle would have made the min def a lot worse IMO. At least they are coming clean about it. What would a normal farmer do in this situation?-run a bull with them for a bit longer. Any calf is better than no calf.:(

Bitten & Hisses

blue5000 wrote: »

Any calf is better than no calf.:(

Careful now, you'll have Justin McCarthy chasing you with a shotgun

pakalasa

On pictures I saw of the heifers/cows, they looked to have a lot of charolais breeding. They looked to be calving down too with too much condition. So much for feeding hay in the weeks before.

What would you do if that many tuned out to be not in-calf?
Do a lot of cursing and leave the bull in-longer?
They'll probably fatten them all up and buy in in-calf replacements in their place.

Mad!

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

I think myself they are trying to stock the cattle too tightly, 3 Lu /ha is the target. During the breeding season I think 55% of the farm was closed up for silage, that left about 6 cows/ha, somone correct me if I'm wrong.

If there are any mineral deficiencies on the farm the amount of N they had to use to carry that amount of cattle would have made the min def a lot worse IMO. At least they are coming clean about it. What would a normal farmer do in this situation?-run a bull with them for a bit longer. Any calf is better than no calf.:(

That's a very interesting theory blue5000. I'd agree that low traces of minerals in the cows' diet could have most certainly been a factor in them not holding.

I haven't seen their heifers or bulls but I'd suspect aswel that they were well pampered. They might have looked good and their breeding may have looked good on paper, but these don't necessarily make the best cows. Also young bulls pumped up on ad lib meals for sales has been proven to lead to fertility problems.

Muckit

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Careful now, you'll have Justin McCarthy chasing you with a shotgun

I'd take anything that lad said with a pinch of salt. He's getting well paid for thoughts. If he was that much of an expert and all he said could be done, he'd be off farming himself for his weeks wage

Miller80

I'm not so sure they came clean about these results. It was in the dealer page of journal which usually means a tip off and the results were not officially released.
I could be wrong but these results could very easily have been hidden.

I have seen many articles in the journal about farmers from around the west and a lot of it is not the truth. Its annoying because every farmer is questioning themselves and wondering what they are doing wrong.

LivInt20

Miller80 wrote: »

I'm not so sure they came clean about these results. It was in the dealer page of journal which usually means a tip off and the results were not officially released.
I could be wrong but these results could very easily have been hidden.


Results published online before Journal issued.

http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/grange/researchfarms/sucklerdemo/updates/

Miller80

there goes my theory so!
well its good that this info is released

Bitten & Hisses

Muckit wrote: »

I'd take anything that lad said with a pinch of salt. He's getting well paid for thoughts. If he was that much of an expert and all he said could be done, he'd be off farming himself for his weeks wage

Precisely why I posted what I did

Muckit

Wel did ye see the big writeup in the IFJ about the derryPatrick herd?

I was under the distinct impression that Teagasc and the IFJ, along with Grange, were jointly involved in this project, but apparently not?:rolleyes:

God they've made a right dog's dinner of things, thousands squandered, and you know are left to pick up the tab....:mad:

At least from now on when a farming decision I make on our own farm goes t*ts up, I won't feel so bad!:D

5live

I thought the whole idea of the project was to work in a commercial environment. And they going spending E135000 more on buildings when they are within a whisker of going bankrupt. I begin to wonder how much of the cutting edge research released in the past has been massaged to suit an agenda. E25000 spent on bulls in 2 wears and only a handful of calves on the ground from them. I know i would have to sell up if i was as flash with the cash as that lot. Do you reckon its not their own money they are using:D

pakalasa

Got the impression aswell that, outside of calving, the guys were clocking in a 9-5. No checking heats late at night and early in the morning, like real farmers.

Dozer1

Just goes to show you where the Suckler farmer stands in the pecking order with Teagasc etc. Personally I'd much rather visit some of the better local suckler/beef lads than visit the Grange farm. Its a pity that's its not going well. With the increase in numbers of young farmers going to the agri colleges it would be nice to have a serious site to show them how things could be done.

That said all the farm walks around here are all for Dairy men and no sign of a suckler discussion group around either.

tismesoitis

really starting to think that all these research farms should b shut down because they are a total waste of money!!! if research of some kind is needed farmers should be given incentives so that the research can be carried out at normal farm level without the exorbadent expenditure and where the farmer actually gives a **** about the performance of the herd. what were grange hoping to learn from setting up their own suckler herd that the could'nt have learned from a dozen hand selected suckler herds around the country. same goes for this greenfields dairy unit down the country am i missing something or is it just a sexed up moorepark wait til u see lads and girls(sorry whealan:D)come budget time its our pockets that wil b hit and not the money pits that are our research centers.

whelan1

what about the 55 animals stolen from ballyhaise

Muckit

whelan1 wrote: »

what about the 55 animals stolen from ballyhaise

what about them? I doubt they are in anyway linked to the derrypatrick herd?

5live

Muckit wrote: »

what about them? I doubt they are in anyway linked to the derrypatrick herd?

I think the loss of the ballyhaise cattle too shows the 9 to 5 mentality of the guys running the farms. How many of us are able to run 9 to 5 on a 5 day week? Very few full time farmers anyway. Looking at their results and trying to do the same on a one person unit is almost impossible. It must be about 1 man to 20 cows max on these research farms

whelan1

Muckit wrote: »

what about them? I doubt they are in anyway linked to the derrypatrick herd?

ballyhaise is run by teagasc too , another example of money down the drain

blue5000

My AA bull is still fairly busy the last couple of weeks, I've noticed if there was 3 or 4 cows bulling on the one day only 1 or 2 have held, the rest come bulling again after 20ish days. He'll be coming out from cows this week, hopefully scanning at end of Oct will be about 90%. He is a mature bull, 7 yrs old running with 40 cows.

I scanned the first few cows he served and they were in calf. Fertility is ok but like myself he is a bit on the heavy side;) I reckon he was over the tonne last May, now I'd say he is back to about 850-900kg. Will keep you posted when I scan....

5live

I saw that yesterday Teagasc admitted that there were deficiencies in the management of the Derrypatrick herd. now i dont think it would take Einstein to figure that out..... The stakeholders are to meet every month now instead of every 3. Seems bloody obvious that needed to be done. And on a potitive note some of the 55 animals stolen from Ballyhaise were found. In Armagh i believe. Go figure....:rolleyes: