Knights of Saint Columbanus

caseyann

I have never heard of them? Have you?
First i ever knew anything of them is today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Saint_Columbanus

JonJoeDali

Basically Freemasons for Catholics. Same for the Knights of Malta.

A large percentage of consultant doctors in the Catholic hospitals are members. I understand there's lots of legal types in the Knights of Malta.

Lovely gaff off St Stephen's Green. Knights of Malta have one of the best gaffs in D4.

caseyann

JonJoeDali wrote: »

Basically Freemasons for Catholics. Same for the Knights of Malta.

A large percentage of consultant doctors in the Catholic hospitals are members. I understand there's lots of legal types in the Knights of Malta.

Lovely gaff off St Stephen's Green. Knights of Malta have one of the best gaffs in D4.

I am surprised i never heard of them.I only noticed one of our presidents was a member and ordered to resign by De valera.
Are they still very strong membership?

JonJoeDali

caseyann wrote: »

I am surprised i never heard of them.I only noticed one of our presidents was a member and ordered to resign by De valera.
Are they still very strong membership?

I understand that membership to these organisations is on an "invitation only" basis. Canvassing will get you black-balled. And yes, from what I've seen, membership is sought after as the facilities, events and people are top quality. Being a property developer or a pop star doesn't cut it - there's Residence on St Stephen's Green for that.

Corsendonk

caseyann wrote: »

I have never heard of them? Have you?
First i ever knew anything of them is today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Saint_Columbanus

Yes pretty well know organisation. As the other poster said they were the Catholic version of the free masons.

http://www.knightsofstcolumbanus.ie/

Another interesting one is the Knights of Columbus that started in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Knights_of_Columbus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus

For a Full list of Catholic Lay Knights organisations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Alliance_of_Catholic_Knights


The Knights of Malta are a different organisation, they started as a Military order in the Holy Land like the Knights Templers in the 12th century. During the reformation the order split into Catholic and protestant branches as you have in Germany, Sweden and the UK but they do have interation with the Catholic order of Malta at a higher level

The present Catholic organisation is know as Sovereign Military Order of Malta and is based in Rome. More know for its medical help to refugees during times of War than its military forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta

Piano man

I had only heard of the Knights of Columbus, but the one thing I do know about them is that they were set up to counter the sinister influence of the Masons in the Church. Calling them the Catholic version of the masons isn't really correct - the association in that regard comes from the way they are polar opposites to the Masons.

God bless

locomo

Piano man wrote: »

Calling them the Catholic version of the masons isn't really correct

There are Roman Catholics in the Freemasons - all one is required to believe in is a Supreme being...that is why there people of all religions in the Freemasons. In the States there are loads of Roman Catholics in the Freemasons there, and there are Catholics in the Freemasons in Ireland too. On the radio a few years ago ( on the Pat Kenny show I think ) there was a Catholic Freemason and someone else high up from the Freemasons who explained all.

By contrast, as far as I know ( and I am in neither ) in the knights of St. Columbanus only Roman Catholics are eligible / welcome for membership.

ISAW

locomo wrote: »

There are Roman Catholics in the Freemasons - all one is required to believe in is a Supreme being...that is why there people of all religions in the Freemasons. In the States there are loads of Roman Catholics in the Freemasons there, and there are Catholics in the Freemasons in Ireland too. On the radio a few years ago ( on the Pat Kenny show I think ) there was a Catholic Freemason and someone else high up from the Freemasons who explained all.

By contrast, as far as I know ( and I am in neither ) in the knights of St. Columbanus only Roman Catholics are eligible / welcome for membership.

there is a Big difference. colombans (various names depending on the continent columbanus/columba etc.) are Catholics and accept Catholic teaching. Masons don't and have additional esoteric and occult beliefs and practices. This is why the RCC banned Freemasonry. the Orange order has similar practices as far as i know but different beliefs and I am not aware of any Catholic ever being a member It conflicted with the RCC position. On the other hand THe KoC KoM and Opus Dei all (IMHO) have a degree of elitism associated with them.

People can't seriously have never heard of the Order of Malta ambulance service?

And most missals in sunday Masses now have Parish announcements with the VdeP Chior, old peoples groups, counncilling and other orginasations on them. Most parishes have 50 plus parish groups. KoC are frequently advertised and contact for local members given.

I suppose it is a bit like the Kildare Street and University Club, the Shaw Society, Irish humanists, or the RDS membership. People may never have heard of them. Nothing sinister about that.

locomo

ISAW wrote: »

there is a Big difference.

Yes, there is a big difference.

Roman Catholics are allowed in to the freemasons / eligible to join, as are Muslims, etc. There are people of all religions in the Freemasons - inc many Roman Catholics. People from all different religous backgrounds are thought of equally there.

By contrast only Roman Catholics are welcome / eligible to join the knights of St. Columbanus.

georgieporgy

Freemasons allow catholics (and all religions) to join their ranks. The RCC however forbids its members to join that organization;

[HTML]
In 1983, the Roman Catholic Church published Quaesitum est, a tract that was approved by Pope John Paul II. This document was the most recent time the Roman Catholic Church made a direct statement about Freemasonry. In the document, the Roman Catholic Church stated: "The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion....the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden .
[/HTML]
The Order of the Knights of St Columbanus is a catholic lay organisation started in northern Ireland in 1915.
http://www.knightsofstcolumbanus.ie/index.php/history

Jester Minute

The KoC* helped buy the Holy See a Sony HD TV van costing $6 million. They donated $2 million towards the cost of it.



http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/11/a-little-late-maybe-but-this-upgrade-is-welcome/

* The US-based Knights of Columbus.

Catholics might be welcome to join the Masons, but they remove themselves from communion with Holy Church as a result.

locomo

georgieporgy wrote: »

Freemasons allow catholics (and all religions) to join their ranks. The RCC however forbids its members to join that organization

The Roman Catholic Church also forbids its members to do many things such as use contraception, but many do.

georgieporgy

locomo wrote: »

The Roman Catholic Church also forbids its members to do many things such as use contraception, but many do.

You are so right. The list is endless. eg, murder robbery fraud etc all quite clearly forbidden but pretty common among catholics. Just being a catholic ( or christian or jew or greek....)isn't enough. One has to tow the line so to speak.

locomo

Murder, robbery, fraud, abusing children etc is against the law in this country, as in most or all other countries. Of course some people commit these crimes from different backgrounds.

By contrast, using contraception, joining the Freemasons, etc is not against the law. Many do from different backgrounds. People from R.C. backgrounds can join the Knights if they so wish. Fine. I reckon anyone can do as they wish as long as they do not commit a crime or harm anyone else. Unless you think using contraception or joining a charitable organisation is a bigger crime than murder, robbery, fraud or abusing children ?

georgieporgy

locomo wrote: »

Murder, robbery, fraud, abusing children etc is against the law in this country, as in most or all other countries. Of course some people commit these crimes from different backgrounds.

By contrast, using contraception, joining the Freemasons, etc is not against the law. Many do from different backgrounds. People from R.C. backgrounds can join the Knights if they so wish. Fine. I reckon anyone can do as they wish as long as they do not commit a crime or harm anyone else. Unless you think using contraception or joining a charitable organisation is a bigger crime than murder, robbery, fraud or abusing children ?

I wasn't talking about which actions were criminal (against the law of the land) nor was I comparing the degree of evilness in one action over another. I merely stated what is expected of a catholic , by the catholic church, in regard to membership in secret organizations like the freemasons. Somebody brought up freemasons so that's why I commented on them. If the IRA had been brought up I would likewise have said that the catholic church forbids membership in it. This does not dissuade murderous minded catholics from joining however.

I guess it would be nice if all catholics actually were more catholic in their behaviour. the RC church's worst enemies are generally its disobedient children. The same could be said for Christianity in general I suppose.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

mdebets

georgieporgy wrote: »

...in regard to membership in secret organizations like the freemasons.

Just to be pedantic. The Freemasons are not a secret society (if they were, you wouldn't know about them officially). They are a society with secrets.

georgieporgy wrote: »

Somebody brought up freemasons so that's why I commented on them. If the IRA had been brought up I would likewise have said that the catholic church forbids membership in it. This does not dissuade murderous minded catholics from joining however.

Just out of curiosity, how many people of the IRA and the Freemasons have been excommunicated or denied the Eucharist because of their involvement in each of these organizations?

georgieporgy

mdebets wrote: »

Just to be pedantic. The Freemasons are not a secret society (if they were, you wouldn't know about them officially). They are a society with secrets.

allow me to use wikipedia to answer that one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_society

Just out of curiosity, how many people of the IRA and the Freemasons have been excommunicated or denied the Eucharist because of their involvement in each of these organizations?

the penalty of excommunication is incurred automatically by the individual performing the action. we don't generally expect members of the ira to report their membership and they may continue leading a double life posing as fine upstanding people to hide their nefarious activities.

mdebets

georgieporgy wrote: »

allow me to use wikipedia to answer that one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_society

May I answer this with Wikipedia as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons
Even going by your original link, it is clear that the Freemasons are missing half of the definition, as the members are quite open about their membership.

georgieporgy wrote: »

the penalty of excommunication is incurred automatically by the individual performing the action. we don't generally expect members of the ira to report their membership and they may continue leading a double life posing as fine upstanding people to hide their nefarious activities.

But what about withholding of Eucharist or Catholic burials? Are IRA members allowed to get a Catholic burials?

georgieporgy

[QUOTE=mdebets;
But what about withholding of Eucharist or Catholic burials? Are IRA members allowed to get a Catholic burials?[/QUOTE]

in an ideal world the answer is no. in today's world it happens ,just like some clergy openly defying church law and instead living and encouraging lives of debauchery. this behaviour is not limited to said clergy but is widespread among what could be called "dissenters".

let me add though that I lived abroad many years so don't know how the funerals of obvious IRA "heros" were done. Masked men firing salvos over the graves of fallen comrades is not a recommended catholic practice.

I think there is another thread recently started on the topic of "real" catholics.