Mike Tyson in his prime

splashthecash

After reading the Mike Tyson v David Haye, Mike Tyson in his prime, would anyone have been able to beat him?

This guy was an animal when he was at the top of his game, he had killer speed and unbelievable power behind his punches. Who could've topped him?

magma69

I think Tyson, although an animal in his prime is overrated. A top class rangy boxer would beat him imo. Ali would dance all night pot shotting him to a wide decision. Any heavy weight who likes to scrap though would be eaten alive by Tyson. Someone like Marciano would be destroyed by him. It's all about styles and everyone has weaknesses and certain styles that will cause problems.

walshb

No, not just good enough to be rangy. Mike met and bet a few of these guys; Tyrell Biggs was a very good boxer with size, speed, a wicked jab and skills. What happened to him? Tony Tucker too, Ruddock and a few others.
All beaten. Pinklon Thomas, a very skilled fighter was demolished.

Ali was smaller than Biggs by three inches, yes it's Ali, but Mike was so good at peak at closing the distance and getting close. Ali to win still must engage. And it's then that he is very vulnerable.

Holmes was past it, but still good when Mike easily dispatched him, and to be honest, a peak Holmes loses quicker I think, because a peak Holmes was a tough and proud guy who would have traded earlier with Mike, and would have been taken out.

The best choice is Ali, and mainly because of foot speed. You really need very
quick feet. So, I can only think of Ali as one who could beat Mike. That is all, at least as regards the "rangy and skilled."

magma69

walshb wrote: »

No, not just good enough to be rangy. Mike met and bet a few of these guys; Tyrell Biggs was a very good boxer with size, speed, a wicked jab and skills. What happened to him? Tony Tucker too, Ruddock and a few others.
All beaten. Pinklon Thomas, a very skilled fighter was demolished.

Ali was smaller than Biggs by three inches, yes it's Ali, but Mike was so good at peak at closing the distance and getting close. Ali to win still must engage. And it's then that he is very vulnerable.

Holmes was past it, but still good when Mike easily dispatched him, and to be honest, a peak Holmes loses quicker I think, because a peak Holmes was a tough and proud guy who would have traded earlier with Mike, and would have been taken out.

The best choice is Ali, and mainly because of foot speed. You really need very
quick feet. So, I can only think of Ali as one who could beat Mike. That is all, at least as regards the "rangy and skilled."

Tyrell Biggs was never a top class fighter. People forget that Tyson's prime was a period where the heavyweight division was relatively weak also.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Tyrell Biggs was never a top class fighter. People forget that Tyson's prime was a period where the heavyweight division was relatively weak also.

Jeez, that is the usual excuse folks use to diss a fighter. He beat the best men at the time, and there were some very formidable guys there.
C'mon, Berbick, Tubbs, Tucker, Bonecrusher, Ruddock, Spinks, Thomas, Williams etc. These lads were all big and tough heavies.

Tyrell Biggs was a very good fighter. Top class he was, at the time he was highly rated.
He was an Olympic gold medalist, who beat Lewis enroute to that gold. Not top class?
Seriously, they are some standards you have there.

What rangy heavy APART from Ali in the golden era, the 70s, would beat Mike?

BTW, you said "any" top class rangy fighter? So, who? I named ONE, I honestly cannot think of any others in HISTORY that I would make a favorite over the best version of Tyson.

Jimmy Young? Not a hope. Eliis, Ezzard Charles, Walcott, Terrell, Bugner? No way. I can go back, but nobody comes to mind. Unless yoy wanna' make a case for a Corbett or Fitzsimmons? Again, these lads were good/great, but too small for a peak Tyson.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

Jeez, that is the usual excuse folks use to diss a fighter. He beat the best men at the time, and there were some very formidable guys there.
C'mon, Berbick, Tubbs, Tucker, Bonecrusher, Ruddock, Spinks, Thomas, Williams etc. These lads were all big and tough heavies.

What rangy heavy APART from Ali in the golden era, the 70s would beat Mike?

BTW, you said "any" top class rangy fighter? So, who? I named ONE, I honestly cannot think of any others in HISTORY that I would make a favorite over the best version of Tyson.

Jimmy Young? Not a hope. Eliis, Terrell, Bugner? No way. I can go back, but nobody comes to mind. Unless yoy wanna' make a case for a Corbett or Fitzsimmons? Again, these lads were good/great, but too small for a peak Tyson.

I'd have Lennox Lewis as favourite.

walshb

The best Lewis was the 1992 or so version. Now, he met Tyson in 1999 when Lewis was still very good, and Mike was a shell.

The 1986-1988 version wipes Lewis out. **** me, if McCall could get to that chin and turn the trick, then a far more deadly and aggressive Tyson WILL

Jeez, Bruno gave Lewis fits when Bruno was past it, and never great.

I like Lewis over a fair few greats, but it's all down to styles, and Mike's
power, speed and aggression would prove fatal to Lennox, who
did not possess the granite chin to take the shots

magma69

walshb wrote: »

The best Lewis was the 1992 or so version. Now, he met Tyson in 1999 when Lewis was still very good, and Mike was a shell.

The 1986-1988 version wipes Lewis out. **** me, if McCall could get to that chin and turn the trick, then a far more deadly and aggressive Tyson WILL

I'm not using that fight which was in 2002 by the way as the basis to support my opinion. I think Lewis could have frustrated Tyson keeping him on the end of his jab. You'd swear Tyson couldn't be knocked out. He was ****ed up against Buster Douglas (your chin just doesn't go like that within 2 years). If Lewis got beyond four rounds I could see Tyson getting reckless and leaving himself open to a big right cross from Lewis.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

I'm not using that fight which was in 2002 by the way as the basis to support my opinion. I think Lewis could have frustrated Tyson keeping him on the end of his jab. You'd swear Tyson couldn't be knocked out. He was ****ed up against Buster Douglas (your chin just doesn't go like that within 2 years). If Lewis got beyond four rounds I could see Tyson getting reckless and leaving himself open to a big right cross from Lewis.

Don't know where 1999 came from, yes 2002 it was.
Lewis was not PEAK, but Mike was an absolute shell.

At peak, Tyson's beard was absolute solid, at least for single
whoppers. Maybe something to do with that Neck. Hell, in 2002
it took dozens of Lewis whoppers to break Mike. Holyfield hit Mike
for 11 rds with whoppers, and Mike was still on his feet. Now, this
was not close to the peak Tyson, whose defense and speed would never
have seen him take close to that much.

You talk about Douglas. You forget that Tyson went 10 rds of getting battered by a heavy handed Douglas. That wasn't CHIN, that was serious accumulation vs. a Tyson who everyone knew was well on the slide, mentally
and physically. Watch that fight and tell me that Mike does not have a helluva chin.
Very few heavies in history would have survived ten rds IF they were taking them shots.

It is the 1986 Tyson we are debating. This guy had great stamina, speed, power, great chin, very good defense and wicked combinations.

Why even bring up the faded version? ****, McBride and Danny Williams beat
that guy.

Best Lewis does not possess the chin to withstand Tyson.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

Don't know where 1999 came from, yes 2002 it was.
Lewis was not PEAK, but Mike was an absolute shell.

At peak, Tyson's beard was absolute solid, at least for single
whoppers. Maybe something to do with that Neck. Hell, in 2002
it took dozens of Lewis whoppers to break Mike. Holyfield hit Mike
for 11 rds with whoppers, and Mike was still on his feet. Now, this
was not close to the peak Tyson, whose defense and speed would never
have seen him take close to that much.

You talk about Douglas. You forget that Tyson went 10 rds of getting battered by a heavy handed Douglas. That wasn't CHIN, that was serious accumulation vs. a Tyson who everyone knew was well on the slide, mentally
and physically. Watch that fight and tell me that Mike does not have a helluva chin.
Very few heavies in history would have survived ten rds IF they were taking them shots.

It is the 1986 Tyson we are debating. This guy had great stamina, speed, power, great chin, very good defense and wicked combinations.

Why even bring up the faded version? ****, McBride and Danny Williams beat
that guy.

Best Lewis does not possess the chin to withstand Tyson.

It was you that brought up the ****ing faded version not me! Christ above. :rolleyes:

walshb

True, I did.

Anyway, best vs. best it's Tyosn by bad KO.....

Jayob10

walshb wrote: »

True, I did.

Anyway, best vs. best it's Tyosn by bad KO.....

Someone is a big Tyson fan I see.

As good as he was, I think alot of fighters were beaten before the bell even went. There was a mythical aura about Tyson at that time that saw opponents operating at about 20% less of their ability.
Buster Douglas stood up to the intimidation and when tyson was taken to the wire he folded.

You honestly reckon a peak tyson was the best ever heavyweight?

walshb

Jayob10 wrote: »

Someone is a big Tyson fan I see.

As good as he was, I think alot of fighters were beaten before the bell even went.

You honestly reckon a peak tyson was the best ever heavyweight?

Tyson the man is not someone I am a fan of. At peak, yes, I think in a one on one fight over 12 rds, he would be an extremely difficult guy to beat, and I would only have confidence in the best Clay/Ali to win, on points. I would also not be surprised if Tyson won.

I look and watch all the others and think that Mike would have go the job done. Now, Frazier is one who could break Mike, but he may need 15-20 rds.

The Dempsey's, Louis', Tunney's were IMO a little too small, light, to survive Mike's power.

Walcott, Charles were not going to win. Liston would be tough, but a points win I see for Mike. Foreman at peak could be very dangerous, but Mike's fast starts and power may see Foreman never survive. He thinks Lyle is deadly?

Holmes I have discussed. Quarry, Norton, Cooney and some others have little
chance.

Again you seem to wanna' make an excuse with Mike's dominance. So, maybe some were scared, that is their problem. Mike still had to get in and do
the business. Who's to say that Louis, Dempsey, Tuney and others would not also be damn scared, especially if they seen what the guy is capable of.

mrgardener

If we are talking about the "prime" Tyson, (never understood that argument btw), I think that Holyfield and Bowe would have beaten him. Both loved a tough scrap - just look at the fights between them, they would not have been intimidated etc. and would have won comfortably on points. Tyson would have won approx 2/3 of the first 4 rounds but would probably be outpointed in most of the rest.

walshb

mrgardener wrote: »

If we are talking about the "prime" Tyson, (never understood that argument btw), I think that Holyfield and Bowe would have beaten him. Both loved a tough scrap - just look at the fights between them, they would not have been intimidated etc. and would have won comfortably on points. Tyson would have won approx 2/3 of the first 4 rounds but would probably be outpointed in most of the rest.

Yes, good points. Both men from fight 1 in 1992 were solid as hell, tough and very aggressive. Bowe was huge, powerful jab and a great inside fighter. BUT, I still feel that Mike's explosive power, speed and head shots may really trouble both. Remember, Holyfield was badly hurt, and I think Mike does a better job at taking him out than Bowe.

I will say this. The peak Tyson does NOT get taken out by either. So, these have to go 12 to win on points. That is not a certainty. Mike was very busy and aggressive for most of 12 rds.

That Tyson who fought Berbick looked ridiculously strong, and heavy handed, and I bet he could have kept up that sort of punching for many rds. No, I think that version has too much power and ferocity for Bowe and Holyfield.

A blueprint for Tyson-Holy is the Qawi-Holy fight from 1986. Now, Qawi was small, squat and powerful, but nowhere near as heavy handed
as Mike. Mike was 20 lbs heavier too and three inches taller. Holyfield in that 1986 fight threw hundreds of shots, many many heavy
shots too. Holyfield then was busier and fitter.

Now, Holyfield moves up in weight, but did he suddenly develop much heavier shots? Qawi took Holy's shots
from 1986, and Mike's beard is very solid too. His defense is also better than Qawi's, and Mike's shots
landing on Holy will be a whole lot heavier than Qawi's. I think Tyson's shots will affect Holyfield more
than Bowe's shots. Tyson hit harder, faster and had more variation.

So, just because Holyfield went to war with Bowe, and took a lot, that doesn't mean
that he can take the shots that the peak Tyson will be dishing out. Bowe hurt him very
bad. I think Mike gets him out of there.

I would be more inclined to back Bowe vs. peak Tyson than Holyfield.
Bowe had size, power, inside fighting, tremendous jab, very good beard.

Would I mke him a favorite? No. Mike probably wins via decision. That bit
busier, rougher and landing more clean shots. Ducking, slipping and closing
the distance, while whacking away and hurting Bowe more than Bowe
hurts him.

Warper

Tyson would have killed Lewis.

Its impossible to know how the likes of Frazier, Foreman or Ali would have fared but what a fight they would have been. I think the fact that a lot of people grew up around the Tyson era, they think he was unbeatable. People who grew up in the golden age of heavyweights with Ali etc. might differ. Its pure speculation but tbh I would never back against Tyson in his prime, when he was young and raw he was just an animal and an angry one at that.

CorkMan

IMO an '85-'88 Tyson could struggle against Liston. Liston had the same amount of power, if not a small bit more, and outreached Tyson by 13 inches. (84 inches Liston, 71 inches Mike) There would be no intimidation factor here, matter of fact, I think Liston could intimidate Tyson.

Plus Liston was very strong with both hands, so if Tyson could sometimes dodge the mammoth left jab Liston would still hit him hard with the right. I think Liston takes all that Tyson gives. Liston beat Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams 2 times. Williams went into the 1st fight with a record of 43-2 with 35 KO's, 12 in the 1st round. I think Williams could hit as hard as Mike, and he had around the same hand speed as Mike. But Liston beat him in the 3rd round the 1st rime, the 2nd round the second time.

IMO Tyson-Liston wouldn't make it to the 6th round. Both were devastating punchers and they definitely would not go 12 rounds.

Now for Foreman-Tyson, this fight wouldn't go the 12 rounds either, both out and out brawlers. Foreman is the hardest hitter of all time, so every punch he throws would hurt Tyson. Meanwhile Tyson was the hardest hitter of his generation and had combos. The intimidation factor wouldn't apply here IMO.

BTW, this is the Liston stare, one of the meanest staredowns i've seen.

gene_tunney

I think a prime Ali beats Tyson 7/8 times out of 10. Everybody talks about 1988 Mike Tyson like he was some kind of unstoppable force. I think '88 was peak for Tyson but he loses to Ali for a few reasons.

1. Tyson at this stage was still very green, and getting his opponents out of there inside 3 rounds. He hadn't come up against somebody he couldn't catch straight away, and then KO with a flurry of hooks. Ali had the speed to get away without being murdered.
2. Ali would frustrate him badly, for the first couple of rounds, and then begin to land the jab in the next few rounds when Tyson slows his head movement. Although Tyson had an underrated chin, his heart was always questionable, and if Ali began to land the jab, I think we'd see that confused, frustrated expression on Tyson's face like he had against Lewis/Douglas/Holyfield.
3. Tyson begins to look for a potshot against Ali, and catches a few lightning right hands. I don't think Ali would stop him, but he gets a comfy UD. Its obvious that when Tyson's gameplan doesn't work, he was basically finished, and would lose the run of himself. This happened whenever he hadn't demolished an opponent within 4 rounds.

The other 2/3 times out of 10, I think Tyson catches Ali cold early on, and drives his nose out the back of his head.

I fancy a prime Lewis over Tyson as well, but by less of a margin than Ali. Tyson was tailor-made for Lewis. Lewis would dominate him with that long jab, and murder him with uppercuts as happened in the real fight. The only difference is I think tyson catches Lewis early a couple of times, but Lewis has one of boxing's most underrated chins, and he pulls through! Lewis KO 9.

I know Lewis was KO'd by McCall and Rahman, both of whom Tyson ahd more power than, but those 2 KOs were freakishly clean shots, and I think Lewis is wise enough to keep his guard up early on!

IMO, prime Tyson destroys prime Liston within 3!

walshb

CorkMan wrote: »

IMO an '85-'88 Tyson could struggle against Liston. Liston had the same amount of power, if not a small bit more, and outreached Tyson by 13 inches. (84 inches Liston, 71 inches Mike) There would be no intimidation factor here, matter of fact, I think Liston could intimidate Tyson.

Plus Liston was very strong with both hands, so if Tyson could sometimes dodge the mammoth left jab Liston would still hit him hard with the right. I think Liston takes all that Tyson gives. Liston beat Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams 2 times. Williams went into the 1st fight with a record of 43-2 with 35 KO's, 12 in the 1st round. I think Williams could hit as hard as Mike, and he had around the same hand speed as Mike. But Liston beat him in the 3rd round the 1st rime, the 2nd round the second time.

IMO Tyson-Liston wouldn't make it to the 6th round. Both were devastating punchers and they definitely would not go 12 rounds.

Now for Foreman-Tyson, this fight wouldn't go the 12 rounds either, both out and out brawlers. Foreman is the hardest hitter of all time, so every punch he throws would hurt Tyson. Meanwhile Tyson was the hardest hitter of his generation and had combos. The intimidation factor wouldn't apply here IMO.

BTW, this is the Liston stare, one of the meanest staredowns i've seen.

Liston at peak would be a tough match, very good chin, heavy hands, very physically strong and conditioned. I just think that over 12, Tyson will be busier, throwing more dynamite and he will be very aggressive. Mike had great strength too. I reckon it's a quick KO win for whoever lands the bombs, but I will go with Mike's chin to take a beter shot(s).

You mention Foreman as the hardest ever hitter? Well, never really able to prove such a thing. Foreman had heavy heavy hands. Mike's shots were more
explosive, and faster. The type that just knock the lights out. George clubbed and battered the foe with heaviness. Me thinks that Mike's faster, and more varied and less wild shots are the factor here.

All in all, I think it's quite clear that at peak, no man is a firm favorite over Tyson. He has too much talent AND power for that to be the case.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

I/Douglas/Holyfield.

I fancy a prime Lewis over Tyson as well, but by less of a margin than Ali. Tyson was tailor-made for Lewis. Lewis would dominate him with that long jab, and murder him with uppercuts as happened in the real fight. The only difference is I think tyson catches Lewis early a couple of times, but Lewis has one of boxing's most underrated chins, and he pulls through! Lewis KO 9.

I know Lewis was KO'd by McCall and Rahman, both of whom Tyson ahd more power than, but those 2 KOs were freakishly clean shots, and I think Lewis is wise enough to keep his guard up early on!

IMO, prime Tyson destroys prime Liston within 3!

Lewis had an ok chin, but not ok enough. He was clean KO'd by two shots that Mike could better. Faster, heavier and more power. No Lewis goes 12 rds without tasting some flush shots, flush shots that his chin will not withstand.

Kess73

CorkMan wrote: »

IMO an '85-'88 Tyson could struggle against Liston. Liston had the same amount of power, if not a small bit more, and outreached Tyson by 13 inches. (84 inches Liston, 71 inches Mike) There would be no intimidation factor here, matter of fact, I think Liston could intimidate Tyson.

Plus Liston was very strong with both hands, so if Tyson could sometimes dodge the mammoth left jab Liston would still hit him hard with the right. I think Liston takes all that Tyson gives. Liston beat Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams 2 times. Williams went into the 1st fight with a record of 43-2 with 35 KO's, 12 in the 1st round. I think Williams could hit as hard as Mike, and he had around the same hand speed as Mike. But Liston beat him in the 3rd round the 1st rime, the 2nd round the second time.

IMO Tyson-Liston wouldn't make it to the 6th round. Both were devastating punchers and they definitely would not go 12 rounds.

Now for Foreman-Tyson, this fight wouldn't go the 12 rounds either, both out and out brawlers. Foreman is the hardest hitter of all time, so every punch he throws would hurt Tyson. Meanwhile Tyson was the hardest hitter of his generation and had combos. The intimidation factor wouldn't apply here IMO.

BTW, this is the Liston stare, one of the meanest staredowns i've seen.

Don't know about that. Earnie Shavers defo deserves a mention in terms of being the hardest hitter.:D

CorkMan

Kess73 wrote: »

Don't know about that. Earnie Shavers defo deserves a mention in terms of being the hardest hitter.:D

I would rate them almost about the same, just Foreman gets the nod.

This is another factor with Tyson against Ali, Ali took Listons best shots, Foremans best shots and Shavers best shots and survived them all. He stopped Liston within 7 and Foreman within 8.

That's why I can't ever see Tyson knocking out Ali, he took punches from men who hit harder than Tyson and knocked out 2 of them. I suspect both Liston and Foreman were suprised when Ali took their very best and he kept firing back, pure determination in his eyes. I reckon the same would have happened with Tyson.

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

Lewis had an ok chin, but not ok enough. He was clean KO'd by two shots that Mike could better. Faster, heavier and more power. No Lewis goes 12 rds without tasting some flush shots, flush shots that his chin will not withstand.

Lewis had an ok chin? He had an unbelievable chin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

He took massive shots without going down from Vitali Klitschko, Tua, Mercer, Grant, Holyfield, Bruno, and from Shannon Briggs, and all these guys are big hitters. How can you say his chin is just ok? Its iron.

If you watch the Tyson-Lewis fight as well, Tyson landed massive shots and didn't even buzz Lewis, I know he wasn't prime, but he still wasn't even buzzing him.

Also, those 2 KOs he has were flash KOs, huge shots that would have dropped every boxer in history, except maybe George Chuvalo. To base his chin on those 2 shots is ridiculous.

JacksonHeightsOwn

didnt Lewis admit in his autobiography that tyson used to give him a terrible time when they trained once as young amateurs??? im nearly sure of it

id take a prime tyson over Lewis any day of the week

but i believe a prime Holyfield would definetly beat a prime Tyson

Holyfield was a better, smarter boxer, better chin, and had legitimate knockout power for a heavyweight of Tysons size ,he may not have been able to KO the likes Bowe or some other man mountains, but i reckon Tysons size wouldnt have been any problem for him

gene_tunney

chrisbonnie wrote: »

didnt Lewis admit in his autobiography that tyson used to give him a terrible time when they trained once as young amateurs??? im nearly sure of it

id take a prime tyson over Lewis any day of the week

but i believe a prime Holyfield would definetly beat a prime Tyson

Holyfield was a better, smarter boxer, better chin, and had legitimate knockout power for a heavyweight of Tysons size ,he may not have been able to KO the likes Bowe or some other man mountains, but i reckon Tysons size wouldnt have been any problem for him

Over the course of one week in April 1984, two future heavyweight champions went at each other in a series of amateur sparring sessions in Catskill, N.Y., that were tempered by a friendly relationship outside the ring.

Eighteen years later that fleeting friendship is gone, replaced by sound bites of Mike Tyson threatening to kill Lennox Lewis, vivid images of their Jan. 22 news conference brawl — and doubts their heavyweight title bout in Memphis will really take place Saturday.

Lewis was 18 and Tyson 17 when they first met half a life ago, but Lewis remembers.

"He gave me a fat lip, and I gave him a bloody mouth," Lewis says of their sparring as he sits on the ring apron at his Pocono Mountains training camp, only an hour or so drive from where those sessions played out. "One time he smiled at me and there was pure blood in his mouth."

Lewis had won the 1983 junior world championships a few months earlier in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, and would go on to further amateur glory.

Representing Canada, after moving from England at 11, Lewis boxed in two Olympics and won a gold medal in 1988 before launching a pro career and winning the heavyweight crown three times.

Tyson, also a promising amateur, was training in 1984 under the guidance of mentor Cus D'Amato in the Catskill Mountains. A little more than two years later Tyson would be crowned the youngest heavyweight champion in history after demolishing Trevor Berbick in two rounds.

Tyson was supposed to represent the USA in Santo Domingo in 1983. But with the country in the midst of occupying nearby Grenada, combined with D'Amato's fear of flying, Tyson stayed home.

Still, D'Amato wondered how Tyson would have fared against Lewis and invited him and Arnie Boehm, his amateur coach, to the Catskills so the young fighters could spar.

Lewis and Boehm flew from Ontario to Albany, N.Y., where D'Amato, then-assistant trainer Kevin Rooney and Tyson picked them up for the drive back to Catskill.

The story goes that the 5-11 Tyson took the back seat, but only because the 6-4 Lewis was taller and needed the legroom.

Although they got along well, Lewis got a glimpse of Tyson's rage in the opening moments of their first sparring session, when Tyson gave him a bloody nose.

"The bell rang and all of a sudden, Tyson just turned into an animal," Boehm told the paper.

"Mike came charging across the ring like a raging tiger, like a man possessed."

When that first session was over, Lewis and Tyson were back hanging out together.

But as they boxed more rounds, Lewis began to assert himself.

And, as Boehm recalled, "By the end of the fourth or fifth session, Lennox was taunting Mike. Lennox was laughing at him, playing with him.

"Mike said, 'Come on, come on, hit me you son of a bitch.' And Cus said, 'That's enough, Mike,' and it stopped right there."

Rooney, who still lives in Catskill, has a more hazy recollection of that week but he does remember the sessions at the Catskill Boxing Club, above the local police station.

"Mike more than held his own with Lennox," Rooney says.

"Mike did good with him, and Lewis didn't dominate. We brought him up because we were having a hard time getting sparring for Mike and we'd heard about Lewis."

Source: http://www.boxing-memorabilia.com/lennox_lewis_tyson.htm

Conflicting reports there.

I agree, Prime Holyfield beats prime Tyson BTW.

makl

some first class posts in this thread.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Lewis had an ok chin? He had an unbelievable chin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

He took massive shots without going down from Vitali Klitschko, Tua, Mercer, Grant, Holyfield, Bruno, and from Shannon Briggs, and all these guys are big hitters. How can you say his chin is just ok? Its iron.

If you watch the Tyson-Lewis fight as well, Tyson landed massive shots and didn't even buzz Lewis, I know he wasn't prime, but he still wasn't even buzzing him.

Also, those 2 KOs he has were flash KOs, huge shots that would have dropped every boxer in history, except maybe George Chuvalo. To base his chin on those 2 shots is ridiculous.

Hey, he had a good chin, unbelievable? Maybe when he got older and was a massive weight, his chin improved, in the sense that the shot was absorbed that bit better. But, I would leave the word "unbelievable" for the likes of Ray
Mercer, Oliver McCall, Chuvalo, Ali, and even Mike Tyson.

I reckon each of these men would have taken those KO shots that Lewsi DID
not take

walshb

CorkMan wrote: »

I would rate them almost about the same, just Foreman gets the nod.

This is another factor with Tyson against Ali, Ali took Listons best shots, Foremans best shots and Shavers best shots and survived them all. He stopped Liston within 7 and Foreman within 8.

That's why I can't ever see Tyson knocking out Ali, he took punches from men who hit harder than Tyson and knocked out 2 of them. I suspect both Liston and Foreman were suprised when Ali took their very best and he kept firing back, pure determination in his eyes. I reckon the same would have happened with Tyson.

Watch the Liston-Clay fight. Clay rode a lot of the shots. I don't believe any were really really FLUSH and clean. Remember, it was when Clay/Ali was at his best, reflexes, foot speed and movement. I think the Foreman example is a beter example of how great Ali's chin was.

His chin improved with maturity. A young 1960s Clay would not have taken
Foreman's shots, or Shavers. His maturity and weight gain helped him.

Also, a lot of George's landed shots were rode too, out of range, and Ali saw them before they really hit him. With Tyson at peak, the shots wre more varied, faster and out of the blue. There is a difference, and I would argue that Mike's shots are deadlier in that particular sense.

Ali would need to be so so alert with Mike's punching. Foreman was wider and wilder, Ali spoke of this, and it is why Ali knew he'd win.

Punching isn't JUST about power and force. It has a hell of a lot to do with delivery, speed, surprise, variation
and the "out of the blue" factor. Julian Jackson is one that would better vexplain this.

I just don't think it's entirely accurate to argue that just because Ali survived
Shavers and Foreman, that he survives Mike.