Choked out

Dave Joyce

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could let me know if there is any medically recommended lay off from competing/training if someone has been choked out (unconscious) in an event?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could let me know if there is any medically recommended lay off from competing/training if someone has been choked out (unconscious) in an event?

Well in Judo there's not, as unlike a strike to the head, a choke or strangle doesn't leave you concussed.

EnjoyChoke

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could let me know if there is any medically recommended lay off from competing/training if someone has been choked out (unconscious) in an event?

Happened recently at Barry's comp. The dude took a minute, continued competing, won silver.





I'm not a doctor though, maybe he died afterwards?

mark.leonard

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could let me know if there is any medically recommended lay off from competing/training if someone has been choked out (unconscious) in an event?

There isn't and by my understanding one is not required. I would defer to anyone trained in the medicinal arts of course.

DrPhilG

I was about to say I'd never seen anyone suspended after a UFC event following a choke, but then I found this from UFC 117...

Ricardo Almeida is suspended for 45 days with 30 days of no contact due to loss of consciousness.

However that was from this site...
http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2010/0810/530751/ufc-117-silva-vs-sonnen/

However 4 other sites list medical suspensions and don't mention Almeida;
http://www.mmamania.com/2010/8/17/1627174/ufc-117-medical-suspensions-and
http://mmafrenzy.com/15600/ufc-117-medical-suspensions-and-injuries-anderson-silva-out-up-to-six-months/
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=mmajunkie-UFC_117_medical_suspensions

So essentially we're none the wiser!

DrPhilG

Had a further look, after UFC 100, CB Dolloway was suspended until August 11th (1 month) after being choked unconscious by Tom Lawler. The fight only lasted 55 seconds and Dolloway took no other damage besides the choke as far as I recall so it's likely safe to say that (in the UFC anyway) there is a standard 30 day suspension after being choked out.

Although to keep things confusing, Matt Grice also lost by being choked out (as opposed to tapping) during that event, this time in 2:36 of the first round, yet he got a 2 month suspension!

arybvtcw0eolkf

DrPhilG wrote: »

Had a further look, after UFC 100, CB Dolloway was suspended until August 11th (1 month) after being choked unconscious by Tom Lawler. The fight only lasted 55 seconds and Dolloway took no other damage besides the choke as far as I recall so it's likely safe to say that (in the UFC anyway) there is a standard 30 day suspension after being choked out.

Although to keep things confusing, Matt Grice also lost by being choked out (as opposed to tapping) during that event, this time in 2:36 of the first round, yet he got a 2 month suspension!

Could it be the case that the fighter's presented with medical problems after the event?.

DrPhilG

Muhammad Unimportant Videotape wrote: »

Could it be the case that the fighter's presented with medical problems after the event?.

Suppose so, trying to remember more recent examples of fighters beng choked out completely but not having much other damage done, like Dolloway.

DrPhilG

http://mmafrenzy.com/10953/ufc-100-medical-suspensions-and-injuries-mir-st-pierre-alves-and-bisping-among-13-suspended-fighters/

Note: If no injury is specified, the medical suspension is generally for precautionary reasons following a knockout or submission loss.

dunkamania

Medical suspensions are issued by the athletic comission that has jurisdiction over the event, so its not a UFC rule issue. This also explains a the inconsistencies between the length of indivdual medical suspensions for getting choked out.

adamski8

Can someone give me more information about choking people out in MMA?
Whats the differences between choking someone unconsious and actually killing them?
Is it just time?
Sometimes watching fight it seems like a fighter could be out for a good few seconds.
Is there a difference between using your arm to choke someone compared to your hands? (safer??)

DrPhilG

dunkamania wrote: »

This also explains a the inconsistencies between the length of indivdual medical suspensions for getting choked out.

Not really, the Dolloway and Grice suspensions were on the same night so issued by the same commission.

Shazbot

adamski8 wrote: »

Can someone give me more information about choking people out in MMA?
Whats the differences between choking someone unconsious and actually killing them?Is it just time?
Sometimes watching fight it seems like a fighter could be out for a good few seconds.

Choking someone until they go limp is only a temporary loss of conciousness due to lack of oxygen to the brain. Holding the choke for alot longer after they've gone limp would be dangerous.

a difference between using your arm to choke someone compared to your hands? (safer??)

To understand it i'll give a little background about chokes.
There are 2 types of chokes, tracheal chokes (closing the windpipe) such as guillotines and carotid chokes eg. triangles, rear naked chokes. Closing the windpipe will obviously stop people breathing and force them to tap. A carotid choke puts pressure on the carotid arteries which supply blood to the brain. This decreases blood flow and therefore decreases oxygen supply to the brain. As a defence mechanism, your brain decreases activity and you "go to sleep".

So grabbing someones neck with just your hands (strangling) would be a poor mixture of the 2, the hands on the carotids and thumbs crushing the trachea but it's a poor mixture of the 2 techniques. The reason people don't just use there hands (like strangling) is that it's far too easy to defend. Simply break his grip. When he has his biceps crushing your carotid or forearm on your trachea it's much harder.

adamski8

cheers that seems to filled me in pretty good on my choke ignorance

Jason McCabe

Shazbot wrote: »

Choking someone until they go limp is only a temporary loss of conciousness due to lack of oxygen to the brain. Holding the choke for alot longer after they've gone limp would be dangerous.




So grabbing someones neck with just your hands (strangling) would be a poor mixture of the 2, the hands on the carotids and thumbs crushing the trachea but it's a poor mixture of the 2 techniques. The reason people don't just use there hands (like strangling) is that it's far too easy to defend. Simply break his grip. When he has his biceps crushing your carotid or forearm on your trachea it's much harder.

It's an illegal tecnique. Thats why it is not used. And let me tell you if someone has you pinned and grabs your trachea properly it is not a weak technique.

MarkFairman

From guard they would be very open to armbars. In mount if they have two hands on your neck its quite possible to put two hands on one and sweep/roll them over.

Jason McCabe

MarkFairman wrote: »

From guard they would be very open to armbars. In mount if they have two hands on your neck its quite possible to put two hands on one and sweep/roll them over.

If I am in mount and I grab your trachea with one hand a squeeze as hard as I can its a vicious move and I would have one hand to base out. If you did roll to guard I can keep the free hand round the back of ur neck and finish you.

Get someone to do it to you with proper attacking force and come back to me

Its illegal for a reason.

EnjoyChoke

Jason McCabe wrote: »

If I am in mount and I grab your trachea with one hand a squeeze as hard as I can its a vicious move and I would have one hand to base out. If you did roll to guard I can keep the free hand round the back of ur neck and finish you.

Get someone to do it to you with proper attacking force and come back to me

Its illegal for a reason.

Nah. Easy to escape from.

dunkamania

Easy or not to escape from depends on the relative skill levels of the two people in question.

The technique is illegal, due to the potential crushing of the trachea due to excessive force.

EnjoyChoke

dunkamania wrote: »

Easy or not to escape from depends on the relative skill levels of the two people in question.

For arguments sake, two people of relatively the same skill. It's easy to escape from compared to say a RNC, which is difficult to escape from.

dunkamania wrote: »

The technique is illegal, due to the potential crushing of the trachea due to excessive force.

True, that's why it's banned. Don't think it's that easy to crush someone trachea though and even if it was legalised I can't see anyone being submitted by it.

RearNakedJim

Jason McCabe wrote: »

If I am in mount and I grab your trachea with one hand a squeeze as hard as I can its a vicious move and I would have one hand to base out. If you did roll to guard I can keep the free hand round the back of ur neck and finish you.

Your forgetting that while your basing with one hand and trying to crush cartilage with the other, your "opponent" for want of a better word has 2 hands to remove your hand, even in mount.