Dublin Animal Emergency Clinic at UCD

mosi

On Sunday night a friend rang to say that his dog had been hit by a car. We got over to his place and he had been told to take the dog to the DEAC at UCD. We all drove down there with the dog who was badly shaken, breathing heavily and in a lot of pain, with a number of very bad lacerations.

The attitude that we faced at the clinic was absolutely disgusting. The staff were more interested in filling out forms and demanding payment immediately than in seeing to the dog. Nobody came out to help bring the dog in, and it was a good hour before she was even looked at, and longer still before she received any treatment.

My friend did not have cash on him - who does in an emergency? - and they refused to do anything with the dog until we managed to put together some cash between us all. Even then, they kept looking for more until we were counting coins out of our pockets.

Anyway, we eventually left, having been told to be back between 6 and 7am as the clinic was closing. This meant that the dog had to wait for two hours before her own vet was open. During this time she was crying continuously in agony. Surely she should have been given pain medication for this period?

In all the visit cost €300. Now, I accept that vet fees are expensive but my friend just didn't have access to money that night, but would have been able to get it to them the following day. I dread to think what would have happened if we didn't manage to pull a deposit together on arrival - would they have really turned the dog away?

Anyway, I am interested to hear what other people's experiences are of this "service"?

Luckily it seems that the dog will be fine. Interestingly, her regular vet was livid when he heard what had happened and said that he has had complaints about this place before.

boxerly

Thats terrible.My vet told me not to ring ucd in an emergency but to ring him,anytime.He is great. x

sambuka41

Ah thats awful, I rang them when i thought my cat had been hit by a car,or kicked (he wasn't cut but he was really sore on one side and was very vicious with me ) They told me that before they done anything i would have to give them a €200 deposit,i explained that i didnt have that and asked what could they do and they said nothing :mad:

So i sat with him all night and brought him to my vet in the morning. Would never go to them,but my friend went with her guinea pig and she said they were brilliant. Guess it depends.

morganafay

I think that's really bad.

When my dog got hit by a car, our vet let us bring her round to his house even though it was really late and treated her and didn't expect any payment right away.

convert

That's awful to hear, OP, but I'm glad to hear that the dog is ok now.

I can't believe that an emergency service at the vet hospital, which has fantastic facilities, and should provide excellent treatment, would have such a bad attitude.

A few years ago I had a horse that was very ill and when she didn't improve after three days our vet referred us to an equine veterinary clinic about an hour away from us. The treatment there was absolutely fantastic. They brought her in, did a quick examination, took blood samples for testing (which began the testing process within about 20 minutes of us arriving), treated her and put her on a drip, all within about 30 or 40 minutes of us driving into the place. Before we left we were informed of the preliminary results of the blood samples.

The only paperwork taken on the day was taken after the initial treatment had been done (not before), and just included her breeding, DOB and any treatments she may have received previously.

She had to stay there for a few days, and we were told we could come over and visit after morning rounds. However, before we left to go over, I received a phone call informing me of her progress and what treatment they were going to do for the rest of the day.

There was no mention of paying before treatment, and they furnish a bill until we were leaving. And even then there was no requirement to pay before we left.

I don't know how I would have reacted had they asked me for payment up front. I'm pretty sure none of us actually had any cash with us that day, as we were so worried about the mare I think we just drove out of the yard without giving any consideration to the fact that they might ask us for cash up front!

In fact, I'd never heard of any vet asking for payment before treating the animal, emergency or regular treatment/vaccs, etc. I normally receive a bill in the post and so always pay after the treatment or visit. In my opinion, any such requirement for payment in advance doesn't say much for the vet, in my opinion.

/end rant. Sorry!

mosi

The DEAC, though based in UCD, is not run by the veterinary hospital there, it is a private company that runs the emergency service for most of south Dublin and parts of west Dublin and Wicklow as well.
My friend contacted a well known animal welfare organisation about what happened, and they told him that, off the record, they are aware that the DEAC's priority is making money

convert

mosi wrote: »

The DEAC, though based in UCD, is not run by the veterinary hospital there, it is a private company that runs the emergency service for most of south Dublin and parts of west Dublin and Wicklow as well.

You can tell I'm not from Dublin!

sionnaic

OP your experience sounds awful, I'm so sorry.

Have to say my experience with the DEAC was very good. Our vet told us to bring our Basset there a while ago when he tried to eat himself to death one night around midnight and then had suspected gastric tortion.
They did warn us of the minimum and possible other costs on the phone before we went in alright, but he was examined immediately on arrival and then diagnosed and brought off to the observation room before they looked for payment off us. We just stuck it on my OH's credit card. I thought the nurse and vet who we dealt with were both very nice and very understanding, and obviously liked animals.
They explained that they had to pack up and be out of the place by 7am because of the normal UCD hospital so we'd have to pick him up again at 6:30. To be honest if it had been something more serious like your situation I don't know what we would have done in that case. I supposed we just assumed in exceptional circumstances the animal could stay there?
Anyway in general our experience was good, but it sounds like yours was a much more extreme set of scenarios and maybe it was a different vet or nurse on duty.

anniehoo

mosi wrote: »

The DEAC, though based in UCD, is not run by the veterinary hospital there, it is a private company that runs the emergency service

+1

OP im sorry to hear about the treatment of your friends dog. Why doesnt he make a complaint? <snip>

Its important that people know the DAEC just uses UCDs facilities and are in no other way associated with the brilliant staff that are there in normal working hours.Definitely make a complaint OP.

Chris_Heilong

Yeah, I heard only badd things about that place, just in it for the money.

The Paws

A letter might straight them out - and send it to UCD too so they are aware of this kind of situation - It is good to hear that the dog is ok now.

Zapperzy

It really upsets me to hear of vets who are only in it for the money. Veterinary is (or should be) more of a vocation than a job. In my opinion the problem is because of the stupidly high points to get into veterinary medicine in the first place, and the traditional view that it is good money. I think there should be some sort of an interview carried out to judge your dedication to animals before being allowed to enter the course. There are loads of people who would make wonderful vets but are unable to achieve the high points needed, you can get in a backdoor but it costs a minimum of €20,000 a year for 4 years and that doesn't include living costs.

Wisco

I agree that your treatment was rather disgraceful. However, I do know that the DAEC is often not paid by clients who are seen without a deposit, and that's why they are so insistent on getting deposits. Also, as for not being seen for an hour, perhaps it was a busy night and there were more urgent cases in front of you in the queue?
Your other option is to find a vet who doesn't use DAEC as their emergency out of hours cover (all vets must provide this cover, either themselves or via another organization- eg, DAEC).
I'd complain to the organizers of the DAEC (as other posters said, it's NOTHING to do with UCD) and express your concerns.

mosi

Sorry to report that the dog died of a heart attack today. Have just got the news, her owner is devastated

Feargal as Luimneach

Wisco wrote: »

I agree that your treatment was rather disgraceful. However, I do know that the DAEC is often not paid by clients who are seen without a deposit, and that's why they are so insistent on getting deposits. Also, as for not being seen for an hour, perhaps it was a busy night and there were more urgent cases in front of you in the queue?
Your other option is to find a vet who doesn't use DAEC as their emergency out of hours cover (all vets must provide this cover, either themselves or via another organization- eg, DAEC).
I'd complain to the organizers of the DAEC (as other posters said, it's NOTHING to do with UCD) and express your concerns.

There are "chancers" out there who are trying to get out of paying that is why they are asking for a deposit (I'm not saying the OP is one of them for one second if anybody is getting the wrong idea).

In a normal practice the vet knows most of his clients so he knows the good pays from the bad pays. The client knows that if they don't pay, the vet will probably refuse treatment in the future.

The situation with the DAEC is people will probably rarely use the clinic and will mostly use their own vet. Thus the "chancers" availing of the services in the DAEC they think they will get away with not paying because they will probably never use the clinic again.

If everbody paid honestly then there would be no need for the DAEC to ask for a deposit.

sambuka41

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

If everbody paid honestly then there would be no need for the DAEC to ask for a deposit.

And thats fair enough but what if you dont have hundreds of euro available in the middle of the night. The refused to see my cat cause i wouldn't have had the minimum €200. Thats not right.

OP so sorry to hear that the dog passed on very sad.

Zapperzy

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

There are "chancers" out there who are trying to get out of paying that is why they are asking for a deposit (I'm not saying the OP is one of them for one second if anybody is getting the wrong idea).

In a normal practice the vet knows most of his clients so he knows the good pays from the bad pays. The client knows that if they don't pay, the vet will probably refuse treatment in the future.

The situation with the DAEC is people will probably rarely use the clinic and will mostly use their own vet. Thus the "chancers" availing of the services in the DAEC they think they will get away with not paying because they will probably never use the clinic again.

If everbody paid honestly then there would be no need for the DAEC to ask for a deposit.

It's unfortunate that the actions of a few could cause the suffering of someone's pet.
Most people (myself included) wouldn't think to stop at an atm on the way to the vets if their pet was in a bad way, and I know I don't carry around large sums of money with me on a daily basis. So unless you remember to bring your credit/laser card with you your pretty much screwed.

mosi

There is no justification in letting any animal suffer because of a few 'chancers'.

Surely they can administer some pain relief/sedative immediately, which doesn't cost all that much (I know, as I have had a recent itemised vet bill myself), and then discuss payment?

Why can't they have a credit system similar to that of many businesses, whereby a direct debit or similar is set up?

They wasted valuable time in there looking for money, while the poor dog lay terrified and in agony. When the four of us that were there managed to put €125 together as a deposit, they said that we needed to give €150. At this stage we had to resort to counting out coins to reach that amount.

Over the last couple of days, I have heard a number of accounts from friends who have dealt with DAEC. One found a cat that had been hit by a car, and had to pay a couple of hundred quid before the cat was seen to - and this wasn't even their cat, they were just doing what any right thinking person would do in seeking help for this injured animal.

Anyone in the veterinary profession should place the animal's welfare first. The fact that DAEC will not treat an animal unless somebody happens to have large amounts of money available to them in an emergency situation is nothing short of disgusting and inhumane.

Furthermore, they should not have a system whereby animals are thrown out at least two hours before veterinary clinics open. If this is because UCD need the facilities, then they should use a different premises so as to avoid this problem. If this is not feasible, then they could at least give adequate medication before discharging the patient. The poor dog was in a terrible state leaving that place, and I don't see why they couldn't have even left the IV drip on her (I know from experience that vets can send a dog home with a drip on).

We also know, from calling DAEC, that it was at least another hour and a half after we left, before they stitched up her very deep wounds.

There is absolutely no excuse for the way they handled our situation. I have never experienced anything like this at a vet, and hope that I never will again

sophie1234

i think your best bet is to put some thing similar to your above post in writing to complain because you have some very valid points!

mosi

sophie1234 wrote: »

i think your best bet is to put some thing similar to your above post in writing to complain because you have some very valid points!

Don't worry, I will

convert

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

In a normal practice the vet knows most of his clients so he knows the good pays from the bad pays. The client knows that if they don't pay, the vet will probably refuse treatment in the future.

I've attended a number of different veterinary practices and hospitals/specialist centres over the years for various treatments for horses, and never once have I been asked for payment up front. And these were not 'normal' practices who knew me before I turned up with the horse, whether in emergency or by appointment. In fact, I wasn't furnished with a bill until I was leaving the practices, and then was given the option of paying at a later date.

If some places, who don't necessarily know their clients, I don't see why other places shouldn't be able to do the same, regardless of where they're located or the animals involved. I certainly would never attend a practice where such a policy existed unless it was a last resort.

Wisco

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

If everbody paid honestly then there would be no need for the DAEC to ask for a deposit.

Exactly! I know it sucks because it's those dishonest people who ruin it for everyone else, but such is life- we all pay for the screwups of other members of society.

@Zapperzy- I really don't think most vets, especially one who work in out of hours services in Ireland- are in it for the money. They often provide more services (especially in rural areas) than you'd ever get from a doctor, and earn far less than any doctor, even as they get older and gain more qualifications/specializations.

Feargal as Luimneach

Wisco wrote: »

Exactly! I know it sucks because it's those dishonest people who ruin it for everyone else, but such is life- we all pay for the screwups of other members of society.

@Zapperzy- I really don't think most vets, especially one who work in out of hours services in Ireland- are in it for the money. They often provide more services (especially in rural areas) than you'd ever get from a doctor, and earn far less than any doctor, even as they get older and gain more qualifications/specializations.

X2
I know a couple of vets that work in the DAEC and they are all honest, hard working and caring to animals.

Zapperzy

Wisco wrote: »

Exactly! I know it sucks because it's those dishonest people who ruin it for everyone else, but such is life- we all pay for the screwups of other members of society.

@Zapperzy- I really don't think most vets, especially one who work in out of hours services in Ireland- are in it for the money. They often provide more services (especially in rural areas) than you'd ever get from a doctor, and earn far less than any doctor, even as they get older and gain more qualifications/specializations.

I wasn't saying all vets are, but as with any job there are a few who are. I agree with you about providing more services than doctors, in my own town it's much easier to get a vet out to you than a doctor, the doctor's surgery is only open a few days a week and only for short opening hours but if you needed a vet in the middle of the night you'l get one!

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

X2
I know a couple of vets that work in the DAEC and they are all honest, hard working and caring to animals.

Again Im not saying all vets are in it for the money, as with any job there will be a few. Im sure the vets who work out of hours shifts are all honest, hard working and caring to animals but it could be that managment is making up the rules about getting a deposit before allowing any treatment.

Bullseye1

Sorry to read of your bad experiance. I had nothing but a wonderful experiance with UCD. But I was referred to them by my vet. I thought you had to be referred to them by your own vet?

mosi

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Sorry to read of your bad experiance. I had nothing but a wonderful experiance with UCD. But I was referred to them by my vet. I thought you had to be referred to them by your own vet?

As I said earlier, this "service" is not a part of the UCD veterinary hospital, it just uses their premises. You are right that you must be referred to the hospital. I had that experience years ago with a dog who had cancer and I found the staff to be very compassionate.

However, DAEC is funded by the veterinary clinics that use it as their out of hours service. As I said earlier, many of these are excellent clinics. I know this from personal experience, and I wonder if they are fully aware of how dreadful the DAEC can be.

The way that poor dog was allowed to suffer was absolutely disgusting. She was barely acknowledged until a large amount of money was handed over. Furthermore, I will never forget sitting with the poor little girl crying in agony as we waited over two hours for her own vet to open.

She was a rescue dog who had had a tough start in life and it is heartbreaking that, despite the best efforts of those who knew her, she had such a traumatic time near her end. RIP little lady.

Bullseye1

mosi wrote: »

As I said earlier, this "service" is not a part of the UCD veterinary hospital, it just uses their premises. You are right that you must be referred to the hospital. I had that experience years ago with a dog who had cancer and I found the staff to be very compassionate.

However, DAEC is funded by the veterinary clinics that use it as their out of hours service. As I said earlier, many of these are excellent clinics. I know this from personal experience, and I wonder if they are fully aware of how dreadful the DAEC can be.

The way that poor dog was allowed to suffer was absolutely disgusting. She was barely acknowledged until a large amount of money was handed over. Furthermore, I will never forget sitting with the poor little girl crying in agony as we waited over two hours for her own vet to open.

She was a rescue dog who had had a tough start in life and it is heartbreaking that, despite the best efforts of those who knew her, she had such a traumatic time near her end. RIP little lady.

Ah thanks for the clarification. It was disgraceful that the dog suffered. The episode reminds me of the US Health system where they ask for your health insurance before they offer care.

IvySlayer

When I went there 3 years ago I thought they were good.

I found my dog lying on the floor having a stroke, and as it was a Sunday morning, no vet was available. Rang them and they were helpful. Brought her in, they were waiting for us. They gave her a quick look over and ask us to wait.

In the waiting room, whilst giving my dog a drink, she collapsed again and then I called for help straight away and nurses/vet ran straight in to help. They got her on a drip, and told us she'd have to stay the night. It was very expensive as expected.

She didn't make it, they allowed us to say goodbye the next morning.

oppenheimer1

mosi wrote: »

On Sunday night a friend rang to say that his dog had been hit by a car. We got over to his place and he had been told to take the dog to the DEAC at UCD. We all drove down there with the dog who was badly shaken, breathing heavily and in a lot of pain, with a number of very bad lacerations.

The attitude that we faced at the clinic was absolutely disgusting. The staff were more interested in filling out forms and demanding payment immediately than in seeing to the dog. Nobody came out to help bring the dog in, and it was a good hour before she was even looked at, and longer still before she received any treatment.

My friend did not have cash on him - who does in an emergency? - and they refused to do anything with the dog until we managed to put together some cash between us all. Even then, they kept looking for more until we were counting coins out of our pockets.

Anyway, we eventually left, having been told to be back between 6 and 7am as the clinic was closing. This meant that the dog had to wait for two hours before her own vet was open. During this time she was crying continuously in agony. Surely she should have been given pain medication for this period?

In all the visit cost €300. Now, I accept that vet fees are expensive but my friend just didn't have access to money that night, but would have been able to get it to them the following day. I dread to think what would have happened if we didn't manage to pull a deposit together on arrival - would they have really turned the dog away?

Anyway, I am interested to hear what other people's experiences are of this "service"?

Luckily it seems that the dog will be fine. Interestingly, her regular vet was livid when he heard what had happened and said that he has had complaints about this place before.

What did you expect? Veterinary fees and treatments are expensive. There is nothing they can do if they carry out expensive emergency treatment and then find the owner doesn't want the animal back. You can be sure this has happened plenty of times too. Its a business, not a charity. The deposit is required to protect the practice, and they would have been well within their rights to turn you away.

mosi

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What did you expect? Veterinary fees and treatments are expensive. There is nothing they can do if they carry out expensive emergency treatment and then find the owner doesn't want the animal back. You can be sure this has happened plenty of times too. Its a business, not a charity. The deposit is required to protect the practice, and they would have been well within their rights to turn you away.

You have obviously not read the posts that I have made throughout this thread.

I know only too well how expensive veterinary bills are, having shed out €700 on my own dog for treatment recently. Although I am not well off, I, like the owner of the dog in question here and many pet owners, care very much about my dog and will pull money together if required.

Many people do not have access to large amounts of cash late on a Sunday night.

We did not arrive in there on Sunday night expecting charity. The dog's owner genuinely could not pay that night but would have been able to the next day. He paid us back the money we put up on the Monday! I'm sure that, as with any business, they could have a credit system in place.

Furthermore, they could have at least try to stabilise the dog with painkillers etc, instead of leaving her in agony for such a length of time. Such primary treatment is not so expensive. The primary purpose of the veterinary profession is to ensure the welfare of animals.

And as the profession's own code of conduct states, vets

"Must not unreasonably refuse to provide emergency first aid and pain
relief to animals where no immediate payment is forthcoming."

The Sweeper

There's a really, really simple way around this: you bring the animal in for emergency treatment and the vet gets you to sign a declaration saying 'I agree to pay at least for exploratory tests and initial treatment including but not limited to analgesia' and they treat your animal and you're sucked in for the bill. They treat your animal and you worry about remortgaging your house. Job done.

I personally find refusing initial treatment to an animal in pain due to a lack of cashmoneyfunds, to be unethical veterinary medicine.

oppenheimer1

mosi wrote: »

You have obviously not read the posts that I have made throughout this thread.

I know only too well how expensive veterinary bills are, having shed out €700 on my own dog for treatment recently. Although I am not well off, I, like the owner of the dog in question here and many pet owners, care very much about my dog and will pull money together if required.

Many people do not have access to large amounts of cash late on a Sunday night.

We did not arrive in there on Sunday night expecting charity. The dog's owner genuinely could not pay that night but would have been able to the next day. He paid us back the money we put up on the Monday! I'm sure that, as with any business, they could have a credit system in place.

Furthermore, they could have at least try to stabilise the dog with painkillers etc, instead of leaving her in agony for such a length of time. Such primary treatment is not so expensive. The primary purpose of the veterinary profession is to ensure the welfare of animals.

And as the profession's own code of conduct states, vets

"Must not unreasonably refuse to provide emergency first aid and pain
relief to animals where no immediate payment is forthcoming."

I'm glad you know how expensive vet bills can be. The fact that you spent €700 on your animal is off topic btw. Looking at the situation from the point of the practice, owner turns up with animal and expects it to be treated before payment. Bearing in mind that the cost of treatment can easily rocket what protection do the practice have against the animal being abandoned and the bill left unpaid? Thats why its necessary and I'm sure they've gotten the sob story before and been worse off for it. Sure they could go to the courts to get the bill enforced, but this is time consuming, costly, and an unnecesary risk. No matter what day of the week or what time of day, it is always possible to get €200 if you have it. Has the owner in question never heard of an ATM? I believe they have them out in Belfield.

If you can't abide by the practice conditions for treatment, take your animals elsewhere.