Employers taking the proverbial

LegacyUser

Ok I'm aware this post is going to make myself look like a right idiot, but I think I may have sleepwalked my way into a big mess and I really need some advice on what to do. I know my employers are d*cking me about, the question is the extent to which they have been.

So here's the story. For the last year I have been working on a temp/part-time basis for a branch of a national company. In the office there is myself and the office/area manager, then there is a head office for all the branches which is located in another county and deals with payment etc. I have essentially been working for the area manager on an on-call basis, covering while she is in meetings, off sick, needs extra help etc. On average about 4 hours a week, and about 2/3 times during the year I have covered holidays for a week.

About three months ago I got paid for a 40 hour week despite only having worked about 6. When I told my manager about this she said that the head office had made a mistake but I could keep the money anyway because it was a once off and their own fault. Head office were made aware that a mistake was made, or she gave the impression they were anyway.

However for some reason I continued to get overpaid, every single week since then. Everytime it happened the manager asked me to give the excess money back to her in cash which I did, (stupidly I know!) The first few times manager brushed the whole thing off, saying head office are stupid, always making mistakes like this etc But come on, I'm not that naive, no company could continually make such costly and stupid mistakes, week after week, without heads rolling, and I have said as much to my manager.

I suspected something was up, but stupidly continued to be over paid and pay the excess back to my manager without leaving a paper trail. I voiced my concerns weeks ago about the fact that my bank account and my payslips were saying I was getting paid x amount, while in reality I was getting paid far far less. Obviously I am concerned how this will effect my tax in years to come, social welfare eligability etc.

She said not too worry, that head office will 'sort' it out so that my tax will reflect what I was actually paid. Also that they would draw up new payslips to reflect my actual earnings too. So far haven't seen sight of these payslips despite having asked over a month ago. Anyway I don't even know if it's possible to do such a thing.

Last week I got a call from my manager to say I had been paid for a weeks work despite having not worked in more than two weeks. Bank balance confirmed this. She asked for the money backed but I was p*ssed off at that stage and essentially told her I wouldn't, in a very roundabout way. She hasn't asked me about the money again - now that has me very worried.

I know I have been extremely stupid and naive to let this scenario go on for over three months. I'm an intellegent person, it's just all this tax/welfare/wages thing has always confused me and it appears that I have been royally bulls***ed to by either my manager, or the company itself, I don't even know right now. I haven't a clue where I stand now, how is all this been affecting me? How will it affect me in the long run? And most importantly, what steps should I be taking now?

Any advice would be hugely appreciated. I have been keeping a diary of all the hours and dates I worked over the year as well as all my payslips.

krd

I'd say your manager has been putting that extra money in her pocket and not sending it back to head office.

There's nothing you can do. I think either way you're in trouble. Payroll may think you're on a full week.

Call the payroll people - see if they have any record of receiving the money back from your manager.

It's your word against hers. Worst comes to the worst it's unlikely they'll look for the money back from you. The manager responsible will cover their tracks.

Jim2007

bigtrouble? wrote: »

Obviously I am concerned how this will effect my tax in years to come, social welfare eligability etc.

The taxes are the least of your worries! I would be far more worried about being charged with fraud if I was you!

I would suggest that you seek the advice of a solicitor as to how to proceed, so that in the worst case you will be able to say that you got legal advice as soon as you realized what was happening and that you acted on that advice. I expect that the solicitor will advise you to inform a senior office of the company, such as the company secretary of what has happened and will do it in writing on your behalf.

Good luck with that,

Jim.

looksee

Get legal advice.

Write out your situation just as you have done here. Make photocopies of your bank statements showing that you took out a specific sum each week. It doesn't prove you gave it to your manager but it does back up your story.

Can you show that you have not been in the office all day every day - is there anyone associated with the office (security, for example) that would have known you were not there? It would also show that you were not there, while your manager was saying you were. Are there any security cameras that could establish you did not enter and leave the building at normal times, most days. She has said you were there, can you prove you were not?

Can you establish that you were somewhere else at the times she said you were working?

In due course try and establish what reason your manager gave for saying you were suddenly working a 40 hour week. Would she be able to show what you were doing in that time? Do you have a desk and the facilities a full time worker would expect to have - a computer for example.

Make a note as far as you can remember, of exactly when and in what circumstances you discussed this with your manager. Did you mention it to anyone else?

Remember you could not have claimed you were doing 40 hours without her co-operation, she has a lot of explaining to do, but you need to move pretty fast, the first to complain has a psychological advantage, and she could be telling head office her own version of events, though its a bit difficult to see how she can get round the fact that she has been approving full time claims.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the helpful replies. I had considered the idea that my manager was/is lying to myself and the company and embezzling the money. However, I have doubts for a number of reasons. Firstly while most of the time she has dealt with wages, on many occasions I personally faxed or emailed my timesheet to head office. I would still get overpaid on weeks where I sent up the timesheet myself. I don't have copys of these (signed) timesheets, but I think I know where I can get a hold of them.

Secondly I have access to the computer in the office with a record of all the dates and hours I worked, head office (should) have identical records.

In answer to looksee's question; my parents, siblings, boyfriend and friends could all vouch for the hours that I work. I have also done temp work for other employers, all on the books. If I was really clutching at straws I have a diary with all dates/time/appointments in my life. So any claims that I have been working full time hours can be swiftly and easily refuted.

The reasons I gave above seem to point to the people in head office moreso than my manager. For some reason they are continuously overpaying me despite having full knoweldge of my actual hours. My dad is thinking some sort of tax scam? Otherwise, as my manager is claiming, that they actually are that stupid. I know this comes across as a very bizaare and unbelieveable situation.

I still have the money for 40 hours in my bank account, my manager has been texting this morning looking for it back. I haven't replied and am threading very carefully before I make any moves.

Slasher

Don't waste your time and money going to a solicitor.

First of all, you have to assume you will not be working for that company again.

Be totally honest and up front with the payroll department about what happened. So long as you are honest, you have nothing to worry about. The manager for whom you were working is in deep trouble if she did not hand over the excess to the payroll department. If she did hand over the money, then no real harm done.

LegacyUser

Em I wrote out a big reply earlier today, I don't know if it is still waiting to be approved or if something went wrong with it. If it doesn't show up soon I will reply again.

dan_d

Think you need to have a chat with your payroll dept. Preferably in person.

If the manager hasn't paid the money back in there is a problem, as it will be your word against hers. Bring your bank account statements to show you withdrew a certain amount of money every time, and if possible, any proof you might have to show you were in the office.

If she has paid the money back, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Either way it's a can of worms though. The only small thing in your favour is that it will hopefully be you raising it, ie as the person who was being overpaid and claiming you gave it back (ie you're not looking for more money) vs her raising it and essentially accusing you of being overpaid and keeping the money. If that makes sense...Be totally honest about the situation.

3DataModem

Call payroll right now.

Tell then brief synopsis, follow up in writing, ask for meeting.

Ensure meeting is minuted.

dudara

bigtrouble? wrote: »

Em I wrote out a big reply earlier today, I don't know if it is still waiting to be approved or if something went wrong with it. If it doesn't show up soon I will reply again.

Hi, sometimes it can take a while for a moderator to get around to approving all the unregistered posts in the forum. Please bear with us.

dudara

looksee

Maybe it is not some 'people' in head office, just some person. Who knows your manager.

I don't think you should talk to payroll, that is where the problems seems to be, and they are either too thick or too corrupt to deal with it. Go to someone senior.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replys. I think I know who I will talk to in head office, I am going to give her a call tomorrow.

Supposing she did hand all the money back and it was all a genuine cock up, does anyone know if it is possible to go back and make out payslips accurate to what I have been working this last few months? She says they can and that my tax would be 'sorted' but I'm not so sure. How does all this effect my tax for the next year?

tenchi-fan

bigtrouble? wrote: »

Thank you for the replys. I think I know who I will talk to in head office, I am going to give her a call tomorrow.

Supposing she did hand all the money back and it was all a genuine cock up, does anyone know if it is possible to go back and make out payslips accurate to what I have been working this last few months? She says they can and that my tax would be 'sorted' but I'm not so sure. How does all this effect my tax for the next year?

It doesn't affect your stamp or tax in future years so stop worrying about it.
As for your current year.. you probably know your hourly rate. If you got paid €10 an hour and worked 6 hours, and you kept €60 and gave back the balance, it really will have little or no affect on your tax this year.

Tax/stamps are not the issue here.

Agent_99

The OP has not committed fraud, as when over paid they notified management and returned the over payment and has according to info supplied has never knowingly claimed for extra hours not worked.

They are under no obligation to return to over payment after management have been informed and not addressed the issue.

i.e. several years ago a payroll mistake created an over payment for everyone and affectively paid them two months wages for the same month, They sent a letter requesting everyone to return the overpayment some did some did not, there was nothing the company could do to get back the money as they could not dock anyone's wages without written permission. They also could not hold it against the employee for promotions etc

tenchi-fan

Agent_99 wrote: »

They also could not hold it against the employee for promotions etc

Oh REALLY! I know an employee who did something which bordered on fraud .... Dishonesty might be a better word.

He got a new job, but when management at his new job found out about it "on the grapevine" he wasn't working there very long. He also couldn't get a reference. In the end he agreed a repayment schedule.

dan_d

Agent_99 wrote: »

The OP has not committed fraud, as when over paid they notified management and returned the over payment and has according to info supplied has never knowingly claimed for extra hours not worked.

They are under no obligation to return to over payment after management have been informed and not addressed the issue.

i.e. several years ago a payroll mistake created an over payment for everyone and affectively paid them two months wages for the same month, They sent a letter requesting everyone to return the overpayment some did some did not, there was nothing the company could do to get back the money as they could not dock anyone's wages without written permission. They also could not hold it against the employee for promotions etc

In theory maybe, but in practice it might be a bit different.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the helpful advice. I am not really worried about being accused of fraud as I have been signing and faxing in all my own timesheets, so they can easily see that I (personally) haven't been claiming for hours not worked. I agree that since they made the mistake I am under no obligation to give the money back, but until now I have been giving it to the manager in cash.

I can't think of any reason why they would continue to over pay me dispite being made aware of the problem. That is what makes me think someone is up to something dodgy - but so blatantly??

My manager told me today that I would get the rectified payslips tomorrow, if I don't I will be contacting the head office directly. In fact I will probably get in touch with them for a chat anyway. The only reason I haven't done it sooner is I have been away.

looksee

Let us know how it works out, I think you are right to talk to the finance department, at the very least someone is continuing error somewhere along the line. Good luck.