The future of golf in Ireland

couerdelion

i recently read that the number of glf clubs in Ireland grew from 272 to 430 in 18 years (as of 2008) and there has been little growth since.

Given that golf is a luxury for most people and even in my short time on this board I've noticed that there seems to be a problem for a lot of clubs attracting and retaining members, what do you think the future for golf in Ireland is?

Are we going to be left with a smaller number of quality courses or is it just a case that the clubs who are struggling are badly run?

I think in the main a lot of clubs seem to be badly run as businesses and that those in charge aren't the best people for the jobs. I've heard stories of golf clubs where those in charge don't believe in creating a budget for the club as they 'don't believe in budgets'. Clubs going to banks without a business plan and asking for loans, and clubs going cap in hand to members year after year for additional payments to assist through difficulties.

I actually expect the bigger private golf courses to start competing with the private members clubs and beating them with value for money and an ability to attract the new comers to golf. Whilst some of them were foolish follies built around a business model for hotels and property that will now take years, if ever, to come to fruition I don't believe it is in the banks interest to let these clubs fail. Entrance Fee money is becoming a thing of the past for a lot of clubs and when waying up the benefits of joining a club for many the barrier to entry will be a deciding factor.

Anyway, I'm just waffling. So I guess I'm asking if Ireland can sustain +400 clubs? and are we going to see a lot ogf clubs returned to fields?

DH2K9

couerdelion wrote: »

i recently read that the number of glf clubs in Ireland grew from 272 to 430 in 18 years (as of 2008) and there has been little growth since.

Given that golf is a luxury for most people and even in my short time on this board I've noticed that there seems to be a problem for a lot of clubs attracting and retaining members, what do you think the future for golf in Ireland is?

Are we going to be left with a smaller number of quality courses or is it just a case that the clubs who are struggling are badly run?

I think in the main a lot of clubs seem to be badly run as businesses and that those in charge aren't the best people for the jobs. I've heard stories of golf clubs where those in charge don't believe in creating a budget for the club as they 'don't believe in budgets'. Clubs going to banks without a business plan and asking for loans, and clubs going cap in hand to members year after year for additional payments to assist through difficulties.

I actually expect the bigger private golf courses to start competing with the private members clubs and beating them with value for money and an ability to attract the new comers to golf. Whilst some of them were foolish follies built around a business model for hotels and property that will now take years, if ever, to come to fruition I don't believe it is in the banks interest to let these clubs fail. Entrance Fee money is becoming a thing of the past for a lot of clubs and when waying up the benefits of joining a club for many the barrier to entry will be a deciding factor.

Anyway, I'm just waffling. So I guess I'm asking if Ireland can sustain +400 clubs? and are we going to see a lot ogf clubs returned to fields?

Completely disagree. Compared to most sporting activities or hobbies golf has done unbelievable in this recession in retaining its members and numbers. Golf is one of the most popular sports in the country and with 2 major winners, a steady growth will continue. Not long before you see two Irish guys fight a playoff in a major championship.

Golf has weathered the worst part of the recession so there is no reason why the gui cant sustain 400 clubs. Anyway junior numbers are rising and membership for juniors is very good value.

Sandwlch

I think the future of golf in Ireland is good. But we will see some courses return to fields.

Over the last 15 years, as with houses, hotel rooms, jobs, and cars, etc. we built more than we really needed for the population interested in playing the game, and than we can now afford now that incomes are returning to real ones rather than borrowings/boom inflated mirage ones.

We will see some clubs, particularly the commercial and leisure industry ones close. Member owned clubs will adapt to the change by a reduction in services, maintenance standards, staffing levels, and new developpements that is more in line with their real incomes.

The_Architect

We built too many so-so courses that tried to compete at the high end of the market when the quality wasn't there. And are now left with unsustainable maintenance regimes.

Wrong business model.

The best thing that can happen is that a good number of the high-end hotel courses close and then we rebuild with cheaper, quality golf courses with long-term targets.

Ulick McGee

There are many options for struggling golf clubs. Make it affordable to golfers, money is tight so have more special rates with a sandwich. I work in a golf club in the US and courses are dropping like flies. The days of the private country club are over, bar the elite clubs. To survive in any business, a business needs customers. Open up the doors to the local community, events, spend some money on marketing.
Three years ago a lot of people were making plenty of money in the industry, now we will see who the real money makers are in these tough times.
Oh and going to the bank manager for a loan without a business plan is ridiculous.

Oliver1985

We will see after this budget does it effect how people spend!!!:eek:

Only one Keano

Good thread.

Personally think the game is in good health here. There are issues but success breeds more success and golf is slowly establishing itself at the top 4/5 sports in the country.

With the likes of McDowell, McIlroy, Lowry and hopefully many others challenging for titles, it will ensure the game is kept at the forefront of the media's attention.

Ironically the over-supply of golf courses could be of benefit to the game here. The one area that needs to be addressed is how expensive the game/hobby is and how eletist it has been in the past. With money issues for many courses, joining fees and green fees will continue to decline making the game more accessible to more people, which in the long term can only be of benefit.

I do believe though that the likes of the GUI are behind the times and as an organisation is in need of a shake-up. There are too many alikados who don't have the vision to cement the game's growing success. I just hope we don't regret their lack of innovation to grow the game to kids without access to golf membership in years to come.

LostPassword

The huge number of courses allied to the decline in prices and the associated decline in snobbishness could end up turning Ireland into a real world power in golf in 10 years or so. In almost all other countries (bar scotland) golf careers are really only available to the offspring of the richest 10-20% of the population (with a few outliers thrown in) who typically have lots of other attractive career options. If lots of oiks play the game as kids (as is happening more and more now) the pool of top level players will grow hugely.

Ulick McGee

Only one Keano wrote: »

Good thread.

Personally think the game is in good health here. There are issues but success breeds more success and golf is slowly establishing itself at the top 4/5 sports in the country.

With the likes of McDowell, McIlroy, Lowry and hopefully many others challenging for titles, it will ensure the game is kept at the forefront of the media's attention.

Ironically the over-supply of golf courses could be of benefit to the game here. The one area that needs to be addressed is how expensive the game/hobby is and how eletist it has been in the past. With money issues for many courses, joining fees and green fees will continue to decline making the game more accessible to more people, which in the long term can only be of benefit.

I do believe though that the likes of the GUI are behind the times and as an organisation is in need of a shake-up. There are too many alikados who don't have the vision to cement the game's growing success. I just hope we don't regret their lack of innovation to grow the game to kids without access to golf membership in years to come.

Very well said Only One Keano (there is two lol) and you stated a very big issue the GUI. They are a bunch of old farts who need to be replaced with some young blood. Bang on the doors of the private clubs to start free programs for local kids, which will benefit Irish golf down the road. I know the members will have plenty to say, but the way Ireland is going everyone needs to help out the less fortunate in anyway possible.

Oliver1985

I played earlyier today and the course was packed with people 20-30 years old !
Seems there are less and less snobs around now, after from the driving ranges :pac:

Only one Keano

Oliver1985 wrote: »

I played earlyier today and the course was packed with people 20-30 years old !
Seems there are less and less snobs around now, after from the driving ranges :pac:

How true.

Possibly the greatest legacy of Tiger Woods will be to make the game deemed more cool to be involved in. I also think with McIlroy one of our current stars, you are now seeing more kids/young adults looking to play as they can relate to someone like him.

Don't forget the Maguire twins. If they are successful in the pro ranks as they've been in the amateur scene, you could see the growth in the game in girls, which is an area where interest is low.

Oliver1985

Only one Keano wrote: »

How true.

Possibly the greatest legacy of Tiger Woods will be to make the game deemed more cool to be involved in. I also think with McIlroy one of our current stars, you are now seeing more kids/young adults looking to play as they can relate to someone like him.

Don't forget the Maguire twins. If they are successful in the pro ranks as they've been in the amateur scene, you could see the growth in the game in girls, which is an area where interest is low.

Dont forget G-MAC he makes everything seem cool

couerdelion

Only one Keano wrote: »

How true.

Possibly the greatest legacy of Tiger Woods will be to make the game deemed more cool to be involved in. I also think with McIlroy one of our current stars, you are now seeing more kids/young adults looking to play as they can relate to someone like him.

Don't forget the Maguire twins. If they are successful in the pro ranks as they've been in the amateur scene, you could see the growth in the game in girls, which is an area where interest is low.

Womens golf is prety innaccessible for many. I know girls at work in their twenties who really want to have a go at the game, perhaps have a few lessons, practice up the range and then play a round. The problem is finding, for want of a better word, mentors. If any of the lads want to try it then there is planty of blokes ready to lend a set of sticks to them and go up the range and hit a few balls with them to help them to get into it.
Most of the lads who are members will then take the lads out for their first round and help them round.

It's not quite the same for women unless they have more mentors/role models. they could just turn up and take group lessons but women in general don't play sport and find turning up and being part of a group quite daunting. It realy needs an active push by someone to get more women into golf.

curly from cork

The ILGU have very active plans to encourage junior girls and ladies to take up golf, with junior golf Ireland going into schools to recruit.
Just my personal opinion and Im sure a lot of ladies wont agree but I think the equality ruling in golf did a big disservice to the recruiting of lady members. Once the equality came in , golf club subs effectively doubled from the associate fee to the full members fee for ladies. I know its a sweeping statement but I think a lot ( and of course not all ) of ladies were happy to play their competitions on a week day, and maybe get out for a few holes on the weekend after the mens comps. This was all done for roughly half the price of the mens fees. In a house where both husband and wife play , joining fees and annual subs are a major factor to be budgeted for, and it appears that the trend is for the ladies not to pay the big money that is required in alot of clubs now.
Ladies golf is a major part of a clubs income . They tend to coffee and scone first , followed by lunch. Men are usually on a tight time schedule and are nt afforded the luxury of golf followed by lunch. Ladies also hold at least 4 open days every year which also generate much needed revenue for clubs.
A lot of generalisation there I realise but just my imput.

Jaysoose

Hey why are people hailing mcdowell and mcilroy as the saviours of 'irish Golf' they are northies you cant have them..

Your stuck with Harrington and Lowry..deal with it.

Oh alright you can have Clarke...(just to make lowry look in reasonable shape).

VikingG

Went out for 9 holes yesterday morning early (at 8) and the course was full of 12 - 17 year olds on mid term break.... there are plenty of golfers out there and to be honest I do not see very many courses failing. I believe it is only going to be worst courses that will fail.

AGC

Good article here

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/oversupply-of-clubs-a-real-concern-2405080.html

couerdelion

AGC wrote: »

Good article here

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/oversupply-of-clubs-a-real-concern-2405080.html

I can see the argument that Hollystown have but they have got to look at what they are offering the market. We paid €35 each for a three ball on a Saturday morning and it was packed. We queued to get on the course and it was one of the slowest rounds I've ever played due to how rammed it was. If there are fewer courses then it will get worse.

You've also got to factor in that not many people can afford to regularly play Mon-Fri as they have to work. So although there is over capacity each day and each round cannot be taken as an equal (ie. Saturday morning cannot be compared to Tuesday twilight).

jimjo

Hollystown is a simple pay and play course. You shouldnt have to pay €35 to play that course any day of the week. If you did or do pay that amount, you need your head examined IMO.

I have no pitty for Barry and co, do they not realise that their course in comparsion to others is well below par (no pun intended!). Their real issue is other clubs are offering cheaper green fees and Hollystown have more competiton in the sector of cheap places to play golf in the Dublin area.

For the record I wouldnt pay between €10-15 to play there. Got it free this year and played the whole 27 holes in the one day. The place is a swamp in the winter.

Your man Barry seems to pop up in the Indo so often, annoying at this stage as theres numerous better courses in the Dublin area then Hollystown.

couerdelion

jimjo wrote: »

Hollystown is a simple pay and play course. You shouldnt have to pay €35 to play that course any day of the week. If you did or do pay that amount, you need your head examined IMO.

I have no pitty for Barry and co, do they not realise that their course in comparsion to others is well below par (no pun intended!). Their real issue is other clubs are offering cheaper green fees and Hollystown have more competiton in the sector of cheap places to play golf in the Dublin area.

For the record I wouldnt pay between €10-15 to play there. Got it free this year and played the whole 27 holes in the one day. The place is a swamp in the winter.

Your man Barry seems to pop up in the Indo so often, annoying at this stage as theres numerous better courses in the Dublin area then Hollystown.

It's my local course and it was my first ever game in Ireland and I didn't know any better suffice to say I haven't been back.

AGC

Think people are missing the point of the article here. No matter what the level of Hollystown (and for what it's worth I have played up there quite a few times including a Leinster youths and the greens were top notch) the problem is clubs in massive debt are taking it's business.

Oliver Barry has, from the putside looking in ran a successful club and a debt free club. Then when you see the likes of Luttrelstown and St Margarets in the area which has problems up to it's eyeballs being allowed to continue you can see his point.

He is a business man at the end of the day and if the competition are squandering cash left right and center and nothing is happening about it I can see his point.

downthemiddle

Does anyone know how long a club can remain in receivership before having to pay their debts?

Trampas

The future of golf in Ireland is good and bad.

Good that it will never die but bad where people will have less cash and could me giving up membership cause they can't afford €1,000+ a year but will play more green fee rounds.

Club membership needs to move with the times if some want to survive instead of going to the wall. Even if it means going against your morals

McGuirks and the likes could be in a bad state cause less people will be buying clubs since they can't justify paying 100's on clubs

Dilbert75

curly from cork wrote: »

Just my personal opinion and Im sure a lot of ladies wont agree but I think the equality ruling in golf did a big disservice to the recruiting of lady members. Once the equality came in , golf club subs effectively doubled from the associate fee to the full members fee for ladies. I know its a sweeping statement but I think a lot ( and of course not all ) of ladies were happy to play their competitions on a week day, and maybe get out for a few holes on the weekend after the mens comps. This was all done for roughly half the price of the mens fees. In a house where both husband and wife play , joining fees and annual subs are a major factor to be budgeted for, and it appears that the trend is for the ladies not to pay the big money that is required in alot of clubs now.

I for one could never understand why clubs didn't offer associate and full memberships to both men and women - so if you want the perks of full membership, you pay. If you don't, you take associate. Irrespective of gender. Seems simple to me.

harpsman

DH2K9 wrote: »

Completely disagree. Compared to most sporting activities or hobbies golf has done unbelievable in this recession in retaining its members and numbers. Golf is one of the most popular sports in the country and with 2 major winners, a steady growth will continue. Not long before you see two Irish guys fight a playoff in a major championship.

Golf has weathered the worst part of the recession so there is no reason why the gui cant sustain 400 clubs. Anyway junior numbers are rising and membership for juniors is very good value.

Comical DH2K9-we are driving the infidels into the sea.
lots and lots of clubs struggling-see luttrelstown

couerdelion

harpsman wrote: »

Comical DH2K9-we are driving the infidels into the sea.
lots and lots of clubs struggling-see luttrelstown

I think Luttrelstown is a slightly different case. Didn't they decide to close to redevelop the land into luxury housing and lost a lot of members to Killeen Castle? with the recession they've not been able to redevelop and are keeping the course open on a year by year basis.

But yes, lots of clubs are struggling.

Mister Sifter

couerdelion wrote: »

I think Luttrelstown is a slightly different case. Didn't they decide to close to redevelop the land into luxury housing and lost a lot of members to Killeen Castle? with the recession they've not been able to redevelop and are keeping the course open on a year by year basis.

But yes, lots of clubs are struggling.

Luttrelstown closed because the owners said the golf operation, as it was, was losing too much money. It wasn't viable in its former state. There were never any concrete plans announced as to what they intended to do with the land, just lots of rumours.

In it's current pay and play form, the place seems to now be doing ok.

The members all dispersed to nearby clubs after it 'closed' - Castleknock also did fairly well i believe, although many did indeed move to Killeen Castle.

AGC

couerdelion wrote: »

I think Luttrelstown is a slightly different case. Didn't they decide to close to redevelop the land into luxury housing and lost a lot of members to Killeen Castle? with the recession they've not been able to redevelop and are keeping the course open on a year by year basis.

But yes, lots of clubs are struggling.

No they decided to close because it was a toss up between there and Sandy Lane....Wonder why he chose to shut Luttrlestown:rolleyes:

Mister Sifter

Trampas wrote: »

McGuirks and the likes could be in a bad state cause less people will be buying clubs since they can't justify paying 100's on clubs

Take a look at their company accounts - they'll be fine for a while yet.

imeeGolf

Ireland has world class golf courses, i really believe that we can develop the country into a world leader in golf innovation. We have very narrow perimeters when we think of the future of golf in the country. For a small country with world class golf courses and world class golfers, I think we ignore the market for golf equipment and technology. Everybody knows that indigenous Irish companies are the future for the economy, why not link our innovation with a sport that we are world leaders in.

imeeGolf

I have been thinking about this topic since I last posted in here. Inspired by the thread and influenced by the IMF related announcements today and this past week I wrote a piece on our blog, wondering can golf help us out of this economic mess.

Article is here http://www.imeegolf.com/blog/?p=107, any thoughts or feedback on it would be much appreciated.

AldilaMan

Advertising !

stockdam

AldilaMan wrote: »

Advertising !

I think they want us to come up with a new innovation (product or service) that will help the golf industry. Me, I'm working on a cheap golf simulator that can be used in the home and thus help winter practice.......err when I get my arse into gear.

imeeGolf

Sorry, don't mean to seem like we're pitching a product or making a hard sale. It's just that after reading the thread I had been struck by the fact that as a country we are measuring a successful future for Irish golf on a narrow definition and ignoring other strengths we have i.e. ingenuity, entrepreneurial flair etc.

stockdam

imeeGolf wrote: »

Sorry, don't mean to seem like we're pitching a product or making a hard sale. It's just that after reading the thread I had been struck by the fact that as a country we are measuring a successful future for Irish golf on a narrow definition and ignoring other strengths we have i.e. ingenuity, entrepreneurial flair etc.

So what is your answer?

imeeGolf

I'm not claiming to have the answer, I was merely making an observation that when we talk about the future of golf we tend to speak about it within traditional perimeters ie getting people to play the courses. I believe that there is more potential.

It would be good to see new, innovative products from Irish companies in the Golf market. I am not aware of many Irish companies doing this. We are an exporting nation, and in economic terms, surely it is easier to export Irish made and developed products rather than being reliant solely on a dwindling tourist sector to play our courses. I don't mean it to dismiss the traditional aspects of our golf sector, but with the amount of players in Ireland, the amount of courses etc surely people with an entrepreneurial spirit are playing there is potential for new ideas to develop and progress into scalable companies. These companies would increase exports, create employment, highlight Ireland as a hub for golf on yet another level etc etc.

stockdam

imeeGolf wrote: »

I'm not claiming to have the answer, I was merely making an observation that when we talk about the future of golf we tend to speak about it within traditional perimeters ie getting people to play the courses. I believe that there is more potential.

It would be good to see new, innovative products from Irish companies in the Golf market. I am not aware of many Irish companies doing this. We are an exporting nation, and in economic terms, surely it is easier to export Irish made and developed products rather than being reliant solely on a dwindling tourist sector to play our courses. I don't mean it to dismiss the traditional aspects of our golf sector, but with the amount of players in Ireland, the amount of courses etc surely people with an entrepreneurial spirit are playing there is potential for new ideas to develop and progress into scalable companies. These companies would increase exports, create employment, highlight Ireland as a hub for golf on yet another level etc etc.

Well I agree. I would suggest that the expectation was that more people would pay more money for golf and that more tourists would play. However that hasn't happened. I agree with creating more jobs by creating new products/services that can be exported. However that is risky and those who are in work are not likely to take the risk; getting the money is also difficult.

I'll go back to designing my "indoor practice range".

golfwallah

However about the macro economics, with fewer golfers and less money around, it's good to see that some clubs are stepping up to the plate and competing. Prices for membership and green fees had gone mad up to about 18 months ago - but now look at the great offers that are around in North Dublin - Malahide & St. Annes have reduced their "entrance fees" and clubs like Balcarrick have done away with entrance fees altogether and are offering a variety of membership types at very reasonable prices.

Dempo1

Golf has weathered the worst part of the recession so there is no reason why the gui cant sustain 400 clubs. Anyway junior numbers are rising and membership for juniors is very good value.[/QUOTE]

I am amazed at such a statement? sure enough golf as a sport has grown but it could hardly be accused as weathering the worst part of the recession. I have lost count of the amount of clubs that have either closed, gone into liquidation or are currently being managed "badly" under receivership. There is good value out there but i suspect this had more to do with the recession and membership numbers declining.

I don't think we have seen the last of troubles for golf courses and i suspect more receiverships in 2011. The GUI don't sustain clubs they accredit them.

The_Architect

Unfortunately Dempo is correct here.

The number of golfers has been declining in Britain and Ireland since 2005. Expect more receiverships. Then start to see the actual closures, of which there will be quite a few.

Dempo1

The_Architect wrote: »

Unfortunately Dempo is correct here.

The number of golfers has been declining in Britain and Ireland since 2005. Expect more receiverships. Then start to see the actual closures, of which there will be quite a few.

There is another thread re the merits of Joining Moyvalley golf club, Jesus the contributors were blinkered, instead of worrying about investing in membership of a club and the enormous discounts being offered by the receivers none of the posters seem to grasp that not only is the golf club in receivership, their are various companies in control of different aspects of the club (all in receivership), there are well documented various attempts to have it wound up by numerous creditors and the fact that a fraction of the facilities remain open "namely the restaurant & bar facilities have been closed". All these enthusiasts were concerned about was the quality of the 14th green. I am just amazed anyone would consider forking out money for membership of a club in receivership let alone the receivers actually encouraging it.

In the Kildare/Laois region alone there is a large number of resorts/clubs in receivership and i suspect the list is going to rise. These courses were built on the bizarre notion that membership would cover their costs, absolute madness and no amount of Interest in the game is going to rescue a vast number of these clubs. The final Irony is the fact that when standards were intended to rise, some courses are now being run on a shoe string by Receiver/Managers who would not know the arse end of a GAA pitch let alone golf course.

golfwallah

Dempo1 wrote: »

There is another thread re the merits of Joining Moyvalley golf club, Jesus the contributors were blinkered, instead of worrying about investing in membership of a club and the enormous discounts being offered by the receivers none of the posters seem to grasp that not only is the golf club in receivership, their are various companies in control of different aspects of the club (all in receivership), there are well documented various attempts to have it wound up by numerous creditors and the fact that a fraction of the facilities remain open "namely the restaurant & bar facilities have been closed". All these enthusiasts were concerned about was the quality of the 14th green. I am just amazed anyone would consider forking out money for membership of a club in receivership let alone the receivers actually encouraging it.

In the Kildare/Laois region alone there is a large number of resorts/clubs in receivership and i suspect the list is going to rise. These courses were built on the bizarre notion that membership would cover their costs, absolute madness and no amount of Interest in the game is going to rescue a vast number of these clubs. The final Irony is the fact that when standards were intended to rise, some courses are now being run on a shoe string by Receiver/Managers who would not know the arse end of a GAA pitch let alone golf course.

An independent study by KPMG on golfing in Europe about 3 years ago benchmarked golf clubs across Europe and showed that the worst managed clubs were in Spain, followed closely by Ireland. This report is available online (www.golfbenchmark.com). Taken that about 6% of the population of Ireland are registered golfers, compared to only 1.8% in UK and 0.7% in USA, this shows that the Irish market is saturated. All points to 420 clubs in the country being far too many (about 200 new ones built in last 15 years). With excess capacity and a declining number of members, it's time to look around for value for money in the clubs that have the most healthy finances!

vedwards

Lots of interesting points raised in this thread...though some went off the subject. Good point on the GUI - really only there to accredit golf courses...ILGU did make a token effort with a pamphlet publication on How to gain and retain members. I see bad management structure in ailing clubs. Archaic three-tier committees that to make a decision takes three months.
It's time to think outside the box and where I once believed that a good web presence was a giant leap forward I now realise it will take good old fashioned door-to-door sale tactics and convincing all members that each one of them is responsible for securing the future of their club.
The base line is 'bums on seats' so how do you gets the numbers onto the course. I believe that affiliation is an obstacle to promoting golf. If you're not a member of another club and have a current handicap you can't play 98% of courses. So how do you get started, put ones toes in the water so to speak? How many clubs have good induction plans for would-be new members? How many clubs would stand the scrutiny of an ISO audit as an industry standard? Out of the 400+ clubs, how many ran with the Failte Ireland initiative to attain accreditation? What will the impact of weeks of course closure due climate change and loss of revenue? How will caterers, bar managers survive with no visitors or members frequenting the clubhouse?
The future of golf in Ireland?....very bleak unless every club member realises that this is an emergency and plays the role of marketing.

Dempo1

vedwards wrote: »

Lots of interesting points raised in this thread...though some went off the subject. Good point on the GUI - really only there to accredit golf courses...ILGU did make a token effort with a pamphlet publication on How to gain and retain members. I see bad management structure in ailing clubs. Archaic three-tier committees that to make a decision takes three months.
It's time to think outside the box and where I once believed that a good web presence was a giant leap forward I now realise it will take good old fashioned door-to-door sale tactics and convincing all members that each one of them is responsible for securing the future of their club.
The base line is 'bums on seats' so how do you gets the numbers onto the course. I believe that affiliation is an obstacle to promoting golf. If you're not a member of another club and have a current handicap you can't play 98% of courses. So how do you get started, put ones toes in the water so to speak? How many clubs have good induction plans for would-be new members? How many clubs would stand the scrutiny of an ISO audit as an industry standard? Out of the 400+ clubs, how many ran with the Failte Ireland initiative to attain accreditation? What will the impact of weeks of course closure due climate change and loss of revenue? How will caterers, bar managers survive with no visitors or members frequenting the clubhouse?
The future of golf in Ireland?....very bleak unless every club member realises that this is an emergency and plays the role of marketing.

Excellent observations

I have had various involvement in clubs over the years from a Club house perspective and have been amazed at the same problems prevalent in every club i encountered "decision making or lack of same". Vested interests seem to rule the roost with what i call a cosy cartel mentality. Very few clubs seem to have Managers who understand business and more importantly ways of generating income so as to attain self sufficiency. Of course the maintenance of the course is critical but rarely does membership or green fees cover these costs. Club houses and their facilities are of critical importance to driving revenues but all to often individual members/committees object or hinder business development. I recall the Bord failte initiative which was about as useful as a three legged hamster. I come from a hotel background and can testify failte Ireland have done little to promote this industry let alone come up with any solutions during what has and continues to be a dreadful period.

I do appreciate the nature of "Membership" and indeed the need for Committee's but all to often the clash, are full of indecision and all too many times tackle problems head first ultimately leading to further problems and expense. I recall one of many examples, a committee taking 6 months to approve a new industrial microwave for its busy kitchen.

The future of Golf will require a fundamental review on how the Club as and entity is run, more accountability and an approach that encourages revenues not stifle same. In a sense, the sooner some clubs get their heads out of the sand and start looking at their business model, the better. The Gentleman's club approach is i am afraid long proven to be a recipe for disaster!

golfwallah

Dempo1 wrote: »

Excellent observations

I have had various involvement in clubs over the years from a Club house perspective and have been amazed at the same problems prevalent in every club i encountered "decision making or lack of same". Vested interests seem to rule the roost with what i call a cosy cartel mentality. Very few clubs seem to have Managers who understand business and more importantly ways of generating income so as to attain self sufficiency. Of course the maintenance of the course is critical but rarely does membership or green fees cover these costs. Club houses and their facilities are of critical importance to driving revenues but all to often individual members/committees object or hinder business development. I recall the Bord failte initiative which was about as useful as a three legged hamster. I come from a hotel background and can testify failte Ireland have done little to promote this industry let alone come up with any solutions during what has and continues to be a dreadful period.

I do appreciate the nature of "Membership" and indeed the need for Committee's but all to often the clash, are full of indecision and all too many times tackle problems head first ultimately leading to further problems and expense. I recall one of many examples, a committee taking 6 months to approve a new industrial microwave for its busy kitchen.

The future of Golf will require a fundamental review on how the Club as and entity is run, more accountability and an approach that encourages revenues not stifle same. In a sense, the sooner some clubs get their heads out of the sand and start looking at their business model, the better. The Gentleman's club approach is i am afraid long proven to be a recipe for disaster!

Couldn't agree more! I too have been involved at committee level, where you will find a huge inertia against change and for maintaining the status quo. After that, you have to contend with the vested interest / pressure groups and ex-officios, who want things to stay the way they are (or were in their day). These people tend to dominate at AGMs, etc. This makes it easier to survive for clubs who are prepared to adapt to the changed economic circumstances. As per the KPMG Benchmark report for Western Europe, the best way to find these clubs is by reference to the prices they are charging for membership and green fees. Also note if they are removing barriers to doing business and targeting new membership packages at defined market segments. You will find these clubs by googling "membership deals, Dublin", "membership deals north dublin", etc., depending on where you live.

Dempo1

golfwallah wrote: »

Couldn't agree more! I too have been involved at committee level, where you will find a huge inertia against change and for maintaining the status quo. After that, you have to contend with the vested interest / pressure groups and ex-officios, who want things to stay the way they are (or were in their day). These people tend to dominate at AGMs, etc. This makes it easier to survive for clubs who are prepared to adapt to the changed economic circumstances. As per the KPMG Benchmark report for Western Europe, the best way to find these clubs is by reference to the prices they are charging for membership and green fees. Also note if they are removing barriers to doing business and targeting new membership packages at defined market segments. You will find these clubs by googling "membership deals, Dublin", "membership deals north dublin", etc., depending on where you live.

Yep the above sums it up in a nut shell. Thankfully i was never at committee level but had to report to them (usually up to three and when getting a decision on single matter). I made further observations at management level i forgot to mention which was introducing Membership forums and websites. Just looking back and checking some sites yesterday it amazed me how bad some sites are, particularly in promoting their clubs. Forums where supposed to offer membership some input but sadly they are rarely used apart from obscure points a particular member wants to make about a particular rule. One forum i looked at last night has been up for almost two years and it has no more than 19 posts. This particular club has over a 1,000 members and has and continues to face enormous financial hurdles and day to day issues that need to be resolved. I am not sure whether lack of interest from general membership is endemic or not.

golfwallah

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yep the above sums it up in a nut shell. Thankfully i was never at committee level but had to report to them (usually up to three and when getting a decision on single matter). I made further observations at management level i forgot to mention which was introducing Membership forums and websites. Just looking back and checking some sites yesterday it amazed me how bad some sites are, particularly in promoting their clubs. Forums where supposed to offer membership some input but sadly they are rarely used apart from obscure points a particular member wants to make about a particular rule. One forum i looked at last night has been up for almost two years and it has no more than 19 posts. This particular club has over a 1,000 members and has and continues to face enormous financial hurdles and day to day issues that need to be resolved. I am not sure whether lack of interest from general membership is endemic or not.

Looks like my experience is not unique. The only way change will happen is for members to vote with their feet - like happened in the airline industry when Ryanair came along. Thanks to the economy, more and more customers are looking for value for money and are fed up with ever rising subs, levies and green fees. Google "great value golf membership dublin", etc. and help re-vitalise the golf industry in Ireland by forcing it to become more responsive to what the customer wants.