Flower essences for pets

sionnaic

I was just wondering if anyone's ever used these for dogs?

Bioforce (now A. Vogel) brand Animal Health Flower Essence.
"Highly Strung" for over active, excitable and unpredictable animals.
"Emergency" for crises, upsets and distress.
http://www.avogel.co.uk/company/ProductListings.php#8
I saw them in my local health shop.

My mum is a herbalist and swears by flower essences for humans but I don't know of anyone who's used them for dogs. Though I've heard Dog Training Ireland uses them.

My little collie x was a rescue pup, he was about 4 months old when we got him from the local SPCA - he'd been picked up as a stray and put into the pound when only about 3 months old or so. He's about 9 months old now. So not a great start in life but we're trying to make up for it!

Anyway he's a dote most of the time, but when he's out on a walk he tends to panic and display fear aggresssion towards other dogs, even though he and our other pup get on great, and he gets on great with my sisters dogs. He's not a fan of older men either.

Now we're looking into training classes for him as well but I was just wondering if these might be worth a go in the meantime?

Cheers

sionnaic

anyone?

kylith

I assume that you're talking about something like Bach essences. There is no evidence that they work beyond a placebo effect. I believe that homeopathy, essences, crystals and that whole shebang are one of the biggest cons going. Hearing that DTI uses them has turned me off DTI, to be honest.

I think you'd be better off bringing your dog to proper training classes and socialising him rather than looking for a quick fix in a bottle of, very very expensive, water.

sionnaic

kylith wrote: »

I assume that you're talking about something like Bach essences. There is no evidence that they work beyond a placebo effect. I believe that homeopathy, essences, crystals and that whole shebang are one of the biggest cons going. Hearing that DTI uses them has turned me off DTI, to be honest.

I think you'd be better off bringing your dog to proper training classes and socialising him rather than looking for a quick fix in a bottle of, very very expensive, water.

Well as I said we do intend to bring him to proper training classes aswell and I'm not looking for a quick fix - I'm just open to any positive methods that could help him.

Can I ask (and I'm assuming from your post that you haven't) used these on a pet yourself? I was looking for people who have actually tried them and what their experiences were.

And by-the-by the bottle is only about €4 so not that expensive

kylith

sionnaic wrote: »

Well as I said we do intend to bring him to proper training classes aswell and I'm not looking for a quick fix - I'm just open to any positive methods that could help him.

Can I ask (and I'm assuming from your post that you haven't) used these on a pet yourself? I was looking for people who have actually tried them and what their experiences were.

And by-the-by the bottle is only about €4 so not that expensive

I have not used them myself. If I want to give my dogs water I get it from the tap. You have to admit that €4 is very steep for, what, a couple of hundred mls of water.

You can google for studies and trials, just stay away from any that are on alternetive sites as these would be biased.

pokertalk

Originally Posted by kylith
I assume that you're talking about something like Bach essences. There is no evidence that they work beyond a placebo effect. I believe that homeopathy, essences, crystals and that whole shebang are one of the biggest cons going. Hearing that DTI uses them has turned me off DTI, to be honest.

on the contrary kylith homeopathy was used on moy mother to beat cancer on its own it is quite expensive but worked on her .

Sev

pokertalk wrote: »

Originally Posted by kylith
on the contrary kylith homeopathy was used on moy mother to beat cancer on its own it is quite expensive but worked on her .

You cant refute the bulk of mainstream science, with a single observation.

To the original poster, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Medical_and_scientific_analysis it references flower remedies.

But, I should warn you that the only section of this article worth reading, is the section on "Medical and scientific analysis".

In any case, I guarantee you that such crackpot remedies will not have any effect on your dog. I really doubt the placebo effect works on animals. People who make this stuff thrive on people's ignorance of science. A properly qualified vet will no doubt tell you the same.

Sev

Also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_flower_remedies#Effectiveness

However, I now understand that the product you cite is neither homeopathy nor a bach's flower remedy, but more along the lines of a herbal tincture.

In any case, scientific evidence to support the efficacy of such herbal remedies seems dubious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbal_remedies#Effectiveness

I still stand by my assertion that theyre unlikely to have any effect on your dog!

kylith

pokertalk wrote: »

on the contrary kylith homeopathy was used on moy mother to beat cancer on its own it is quite expensive but worked on her .

On the contrary it's likely that your mother beat cancer all by herself. It's called spontaneous remission.

Also, read here for a list of people who, imo, have effectively been killed by homeopaths.

The Sweeper

They are quite effective.

Usually because the carrier liquid, used as a preservative, is brandy.

So the next time your dog or cat is up the walls and cracking it, you can either buy a 20ml bottle of star of bethlehem, essence of moonflower, and so on, and administer a couple of drops by eye-dropper to the back of each ear...


...or you can break out the finest XO, pour a dram in a glass, fill an eye dropper, administer a couple of drops to the back of each ear, and drink the remainder yourself.

sionnaic

Wow!! ok a lot of sceptics here today. That's fine you're entitled to your opinions and your choice of healthcare, as I am to mine.

Not to split hairs but that €4 gets you a months supply of drops you put in their food or water. And my dogs also get water from the tap to drink! There is alcohol content but give the amount of liquid you actually consume with tinctures (3-4 drops) it should be very little alcohol really.

I have, for the most part, had very good experiences with alternative or complementary medicine. I think it is important to do your research and check the qualifications of any professional. I'm not saying there aren't "quacks" out there. It's important to use some common sense also, especially if there's a serious illness or someone with a compromised immune system involved (i.e. the very young or the very old). No practitioners I know will tell you to ignore your doctor in these cases.

Nutritional therapy, herbs and cranio-sacral therapy is the only thing (after years of dermatologists and GPs) which helped and dramatically improved my own chronic eczema. And herbs and reflexology, in tandem with conventional drugs, have greatly helped my dad cope with Parkinsons and delay its progression.

I understand that a lot of people refuse to accept these things as valid treatments and that's their perogative but I don't think it's very balanced to just dismiss it out of hand without having tried any of it - terms like crackpots should not be applied to people who spend years studying and training to become qualified practitioners.
I'm in no way dismissing conventional medicine and it definitely has its place but so do other complementary treatments.
Medical science is constantly evolving so who's to know that in years to come some of these will become to be considered accepted practice.

Anyway back to my original post - has anyone actually tried these flower essences on their dog?

goat2

sionnaic wrote: »

Well as I said we do intend to bring him to proper training classes aswell and I'm not looking for a quick fix - I'm just open to any positive methods that could help him.

Can I ask (and I'm assuming from your post that you haven't) used these on a pet yourself? I was looking for people who have actually tried them and what their experiences were.

And by-the-by the bottle is only about €4 so not that expensive

i have used and still sometimes do especially in the evening to give them a restful nights sleep if they are still hyperactivei use bach flower essence in their drinking water last thing in evening sometimesi did not know there was such a thing as essence for dogsi do know there is that little bit of alcohol in the human varietyit does help, i do know thati grow camomile in garden for their drinking bowl i have heard st johns worth is goodi am glad someone has come on here about this subject

The Sweeper

sionnaic - don't confuse my attitude specifically to flower essences with general scepticism of alternative therapies.

I am a firm believer in acupuncture. I believe massage is highly therapeutic. Arnica is the sole reason I could wear my halter neck wedding dress after a paintballing hen party went badly wrong.

But flower essences for pets - honest to God, I have a bottle, I use it occasionally, when the top comes off it'd make your eyes water, I got it from a qualified professional, and I honestly think it's the alcohol. So much so that I'll only use it in case of emergency - e.g. extreme agitation in a multi-animal household that's leading up to a fight. A few drops of Bachs on the backs of the ears, and all they want to do is sleep it off.

...you know, almost like they're a bit pissed.

mymo

I have tried a couple of herbal remedies for cats and dogs, none had any noticeable effect.
The rescue remedy may have made some difference, but I'm not convinced.

I honestly think training and socialization is the best way to solve your problem. Maybe contact a trainer to come to your home. It takes time and constant training to solve issues like this. If you think it may help calm the dog while you train and socialize it, by all means try it, but don't expect it to solve the issues.

Sev

sionnaic wrote: »

Wow!! ok a lot of sceptics here today. That's fine you're entitled to your opinions and your choice of healthcare, as I am to mine.

Not to split hairs but that €4 gets you a months supply of drops you put in their food or water. And my dogs also get water from the tap to drink! There is alcohol content but give the amount of liquid you actually consume with tinctures (3-4 drops) it should be very little alcohol really.

I have, for the most part, had very good experiences with alternative or complementary medicine. I think it is important to do your research and check the qualifications of any professional. I'm not saying there aren't "quacks" out there. It's important to use some common sense also, especially if there's a serious illness or someone with a compromised immune system involved (i.e. the very young or the very old). No practitioners I know will tell you to ignore your doctor in these cases.

Nutritional therapy, herbs and cranio-sacral therapy is the only thing (after years of dermatologists and GPs) which helped and dramatically improved my own chronic eczema. And herbs and reflexology, in tandem with conventional drugs, have greatly helped my dad cope with Parkinsons and delay its progression.

I understand that a lot of people refuse to accept these things as valid treatments and that's their perogative but I don't think it's very balanced to just dismiss it out of hand without having tried any of it - terms like crackpots should not be applied to people who spend years studying and training to become qualified practitioners.
I'm in no way dismissing conventional medicine and it definitely has its place but so do other complementary treatments.
Medical science is constantly evolving so who's to know that in years to come some of these will become to be considered accepted practice.

Anyway back to my original post - has anyone actually tried these flower essences on their dog?

Well, you seem well researched and have formed your own opinions, so thats good. My reply wasn't that helpful to you then.

My post was for the more naive forum reader, without a scientific training and susceptible to the influence of rhetoric and advertising. It is important that they know the difference between products that are supported by peer-reviewed medical science and those that are not. After they are fully informed, I'm happy if they choose to indulge their whims with unsupported remedies and practices at their own risk.