Asking a tenant to move out

cheesey1

As the title states, I want to ask the tenant who rents a room in my house to move out. I have a few issues with him, but the problem being if I ask him to move out do I have to return the deposit to him. I ask this because I know the en-suite in his room in is in a dreadful state, it would take an awful lot of bleach to clean it, I had to go in there one day as he was having a problem with the shower and asked me to get it seen too. Its not that I have been going into his room spying. He also never cleans the rest of the house, ie. the stairs and landing need to be hoovered and the kitchen cleaned and floors washed and this is all left to me, now I don't mind cleaning but surely he should also do some, this is the not the first time he has rented somewhere.

Really what I am wondering is do I have to return the deposit?

Tell him the deposit will be returened providing the room/ensuite is cleaned to the standard it was in when he moved in, if he doesn't do so the deposit will cover the cost of a professional clean. Also be sure to have the bills sorted so you get what's owed off them. Just give him a months notice, you don't even have to tell him why.

hobochris

cheesey1 wrote: »

As the title states, I want to ask the tenant who rents a room in my house to move out. I have a few issues with him, but the problem being if I ask him to move out do I have to return the deposit to him. I ask this because I know the en-suite in his room in is in a dreadful state, it would take an awful lot of bleach to clean it, I had to go in there one day as he was having a problem with the shower and asked me to get it seen too. Its not that I have been going into his room spying. He also never cleans the rest of the house, ie. the stairs and landing need to be hoovered and the kitchen cleaned and floors washed and this is all left to me, now I don't mind cleaning but surely he should also do some, this is the not the first time he has rented somewhere.

Really what I am wondering is do I have to return the deposit?

Yes! you do.

Jaysoose

RoverJames wrote: »

Tell him the deposit will be returened providing the room/ensuite is cleaned to the standard it was in when he moved in, if he doesn't do so the deposit will cover the cost of a professional clean. Also be sure to have the bills sorted so you get what's owed off them. Just give him a months notice, you don't even have to tell him why.

Ignore this.

Give him his deposit and clean the place.

cheesey1

RoverJames wrote: »

Tell him the deposit will be returened providing the room/ensuite is cleaned to the standard it was in when he moved in, if he doesn't do so the deposit will cover the cost of a professional clean. Also be sure to have the bills sorted so you get what's owed off them. Just give him a months notice, you don't even have to tell him why.

I rather not have to give the month but I guess its the right thing to do - and just re-advertise the room after that.

hobochris - the reason I asked about returning the deposit was cause of the state of the room/ensuite and even if I were to clean it myself it would take hours and I when I rented the room out it was in perfect condition as my previous tenant had left it spotless and I also gave it a once over before he moved in.

cheesey1

RoverJames wrote: »

Tell him the deposit will be returened providing the room/ensuite is cleaned to the standard it was in when he moved in, if he doesn't do so the deposit will cover the cost of a professional clean. Also be sure to have the bills sorted so you get what's owed off them. Just give him a months notice, you don't even have to tell him why.

Jaysoose wrote: »

Ignore this.

Give him his deposit and clean the place.

But why should I have to go to the time and trouble of cleaning it and he still gets his deposit returned?

Darlughda

Jayzus. When renting a room in a shared house this is a common problem.

Even with housemates who are good fun and become friends.

Some people are just scummy. Thats it.

It bugs me but sometimes you just have to accept life.
You can ask and plead and draw up rotas to no avail.

Just because you are a landlord, it does not give you the right to withhold a deposit, unless damage has been done to a property.

Jaysoose

cheesey1 wrote: »

But why should I have to go to the time and trouble of cleaning it and he still gets his deposit returned?

Because the place is dirty and surely you will be cleaning it anyway if another tenant moves in.

Isnt general wear and tear acceptable or has it got to the stage were landlords will keep deposits over what amounts to the price of a bottle of bleach and a bit of a scrub?

You have no right to just retain his deposit in my opinion.

Smcgie

cheesey1 wrote: »

But why should I have to go to the time and trouble of cleaning it and he still gets his deposit returned?

Because its YOUR house. I can't believe you have even posted this thread. Just give him a fortnights notice and give him his deposit back. With regards to hovering the hall etc I really think you are nit picking.

shoes34

cheesey1 wrote: »

the en-suite in his room in is in a dreadful state, it would take an awful lot of bleach to clean it,

Is this not considered damage if there is grim stained into the tiles etc.?

variety

cheesey1 wrote: »

I want to ask the tenant who rents a room in my house to move out.

Absolutely agree with other posters - Landlords can under NO circumstances retain money from a Tenant's deposit for cleaning.

However, the OP is not a Landlord. Rent-a-room tenants (ie lodgers) generally have very few legal rights conferred on them as in a normal LL-tenant relationship.

OP, tell him the deposit will be withheld if he does not clean to the room to the standard it was when he moved in (and also give it to him in writing). If he doesn't clean it (or cleans it only a little) you have three options:
1. Keep all of the deposit
2. Keep some of the deposit
3. Keep none of the deposit.
It's up to you - as a Lodger, he has no Tenant rights so you can really do whatever you want.

And there's no need to "give him a month" as you say - he is a lodger, you can give him as little as 48 hours if you want to.

Now, I don't agree with the above, but that's the drawback of being a Lodger and not a Tenant in Ireland.

variety

shoes34 wrote: »

Is this not considered damage if there is grim stained into the tiles etc.?

That would be considered wear and tear. Damage would be if the tiles were broken and falling off the walls.

cheesey1

variety wrote: »

Absolutely agree with other posters - Landlords can under NO circumstances retain money from a Tenant's deposit for cleaning.

However, the OP is not a Landlord. Rent-a-room tenants (ie lodgers) generally have very few legal rights conferred on them as in a normal LL-tenant relationship.

OP, tell him the deposit will be withheld if he does not clean to the room to the standard it was when he moved in (and also give it to him in writing). If he doesn't clean it (or cleans it only a little) you have three options:
1. Keep all of the deposit
2. Keep some of the deposit
3. Keep none of the deposit.
It's up to you - as a Lodger, he has no Tenant rights so you can really do whatever you want.

And there's no need to "give him a month" as you say - he is a lodger, you can give him as little as 48 hours if you want to.

Now, I don't agree with the above, but that's the drawback of being a Lodger and not a Tenant in Ireland.

Thanks, - I will keep this all in mind.

doolox

Most tenancy agreements specify cleaning as a legitimate expense when managing the return of security deposits.

Most specify that the property be returned in the state in which it was received fair wear and tear excepted. It would appear that if grime and dirt are present in the private bathroom area of the bedroom assigned to the tenant then there can be no question of who is responsible for keepiing it clean.
The stairs and other common areas of the house, accessable to all residents and guests of residents in the house is a more grey area. Without a formal written agreement about who is responsible and when it is difficult to decide on who should clean it.

It should be noted that the tax authorities do not allow you to write off your own labour in cleaning between tenancies and expect you to recover costs for such cleaning from the previous tenant, usually from their security deposit.

All too often landlords have to clean up and remove tons of rubbish from tenants in order to make their property presentable to the next tenant but you can be lucky.....my last two were no trouble at all in that regard but the first 2 were not so good.
Turn-arounds can be done in as little as a week or two if arranged properly and viewing possible before the end of previous tenancy.

Obviously if the previous tenants are untidy this is more difficult.

MysticalSoul

The only legal way you could hold onto the deposit for cleaning, is if you hired a professional cleaner, and kept the receipts. Other than that, the deposit has to be returned in full.

cheesey1

Smcgie wrote: »

Because its YOUR house. I can't believe you have even posted this thread. Just give him a fortnights notice and give him his deposit back. With regards to hovering the hall etc I really think you are nit picking.

The reason I asked the above is because this is only my 2nd time renting the room out, the first tenant I never had any problems with. I don't mind cleaning in all honesty I just would like to see the other person do it from time to time.

Would it be wrong of me to advertise the room before asking him to move out - and please don't anyone jump down my throat I am only asking a question.

The_Morrigan

cheesey1 wrote: »

The reason I asked the above is because this is only my 2nd time renting the room out, the first tenant I never had any problems with. I don't mind cleaning in all honesty I just would like to see the other person do it from time to time.

Would it be wrong of me to advertise the room before asking him to move out - and please don't anyone jump down my throat I am only asking a question.

Out of pure courtesy, no I don't that that would be acceptable.
Give the tenant notice first - then advertise the room.

It wouldn't be very nice if he/she was browsing daft and found their room up for rent before you had spoken to them - and it might make matters worse.

cheesey1

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Out of pure courtesy, no I don't that that would be acceptable.
Give the tenant notice first - then advertise the room.

It wouldn't be very nice if he/she was browsing daft and found their room up for rent before you had spoken to them - and it might make matters worse.

Thanks - won't advertise till I have spoken to them.

Jaysoose

MysticalSoul wrote: »

The only legal way you could hold onto the deposit for cleaning, is if you hired a professional cleaner, and kept the receipts. Other than that, the deposit has to be returned in full.

PLease ignore this OP...

How in fcuks name does getting receipts make it legal to keep deposits?

Some of the advice being given out in this thread is mental.

Stop being nitpicky about this stuff, the bathroom is dirty..this is all.

Osgoodisgood

variety wrote: »

Absolutely agree with other posters - Landlords can under NO circumstances retain money from a Tenant's deposit for cleaning.

However, the OP is not a Landlord. Rent-a-room tenants (ie lodgers) generally have very few legal rights conferred on them as in a normal LL-tenant relationship.

OP, tell him the deposit will be withheld if he does not clean to the room to the standard it was when he moved in (and also give it to him in writing). If he doesn't clean it (or cleans it only a little) you have three options:
1. Keep all of the deposit
2. Keep some of the deposit
3. Keep none of the deposit.
It's up to you - as a Lodger, he has no Tenant rights so you can really do whatever you want.

And there's no need to "give him a month" as you say - he is a lodger, you can give him as little as 48 hours if you want to.

Now, I don't agree with the above, but that's the drawback of being a Lodger and not a Tenant in Ireland.

Good summary. My only change to your post is that I do agree with it.
The lodger should return the room in the condition it was in when he/she moved in. Failing to do that should definitely result in the deposit being reduced.

The bleating that goes on about deposits is just unbelievable. Why do tenants and lodgers suddenly turn into Perry Mason when they want their deposit back? Clean up after yourselves and the process will be pain free. If something breaks or wears out the landlord/owner is responsible, if it's dirty and you dirtied it, it's your problem.

variety

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Good summary. My only change to your post is that I do agree with it.

That had me confused! Had to re-read my post a couple of times to get what you meant - got it now.:D

When I said I don't agree with the situation, all I meant was that I believe Lodgers ought to have some rights conferred on them in law (not a very fair system, in my opinion).

But simply because they have very few rights, it's entirely up to the OP to withhold any monies they see fit. And I DO agree with that (ie I agree to do what the law allows, but I think the law should be amended to include Lodgers in Tenant's rights).
Sorry, I'm rambling - does that even make sense??

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

The lodger should return the room in the condition it was in when he/she moved in. Failing to do that should definitely result in the deposit being reduced.

+1

D3PO

people need to stop posting their opinion here and stick to the facts. Opinion is a waste of time in this scenario and unhelpful.

FACT you cannot keep deposit or part of a deposit for cleaning END FACT

ztoical

D3PO wrote: »

people need to stop posting their opinion here and stick to the facts. Opinion is a waste of time in this scenario and unhelpful.

FACT you cannot keep deposit or part of a deposit for cleaning END FACT

Even if it's a rent a room scheme? Just curious as it's been pointed out on several threads that rent a room is a totally different kettle of fish to renting a whole apartment and if a LL in a rent a room situation kept the deposit the tenant can't go to the likes of threashold/PRTB or the other channels that other tenants can.

tHE vAGGABOND

I would tell the guy that you want the room returned to you in the same state you gave it to him, thats fair?

If you want it cleaner than that, its up to you [or the next tennant] tbh

I would advise against letting him randomly select someone to move in, instead of him - some of the worst places I lived in were with people who left getting a mate or whatever to move in like that

variety

D3PO wrote: »

people need to stop posting their opinion here and stick to the facts. Opinion is a waste of time in this scenario and unhelpful.

I did stick to the facts in my first answer.

D3PO wrote: »

FACT you cannot keep deposit or part of a deposit for cleaning END FACT

Generally true. A LANDLORD cannot keep any part of a deposit from a TENANT for cleaning.

False in this case, though: the OP is not a Landlord (they are simply a resident property owner) and the LODGER in question is not a Tenant so does not accrue Tenant's rights under the Law.

ztoical wrote: »

Even if it's a rent a room scheme? Just curious as it's been pointed out on several threads that rent a room is a totally different kettle of fish to renting a whole apartment and if a LL in a rent a room situation kept the deposit the tenant can't go to the likes of threashold/PRTB or the other channels that other tenants can.

In a rent-a-room scheme such as the OP has, there is NO Landlord and NO Tenant. There is simply a Resident Owner and a Lodger - no laws apply, only general common sense and courtesy.

When a non-resident Landlord rents an entire property on a room-by-room basis (ie each person rents a room and has shared access to all other areas such as living room, kitchen..) it is deemed a Tenancy as per the Residential Tenancies Act (2004) and is therefore subject to abide by the rules of the RTA.

00112984

In the grand scheme of thing, it's an annoyance alright but isn't a day's worth of scrubbing worth the up-to-€10k a year tax free that the rental generates?

cheesey1

00112984 wrote: »

In the grand scheme of thing, it's an annoyance alright but isn't a day's worth of scrubbing worth the up-to-€10k a year tax free that the rental generates?

wow I wish I was getting close to €10K a year for renting the room, don't even get half that amount.

shu

True a lodger under the rent-a-room scheme is not covered under the PRTB. However, if you keep his deposit you will be liable for a small claims court claim. Unless there is any damage to the room, I would get your marigolds out!

gavney1

D3PO wrote: »

people need to stop posting their opinion here and stick to the facts. Opinion is a waste of time in this scenario and unhelpful.

FACT you cannot keep deposit or part of a deposit for cleaning END FACT

OP, this is totally true from what I've read

You don't have the right to hold his deposit for cleaning.

Best option IMO is to ask him to clean the place, if he doesn't well so be it, but you still need to return deposit (that's the law from what I know)
If he does the cleaning then happy days!

Jo King

variety wrote: »

In a rent-a-room scheme such as the OP has, there is NO Landlord and NO Tenant. There is simply a Resident Owner and a Lodger - no laws apply, only general common sense and courtesy.

There are laws. The law of contract applies. Same as if you booked into a hotel or holiday home. Many self catering holiday lettings charge for cleaning.
The lodger has to sue in court as opposed to going to the PRTB.

variety wrote: »

When a non-resident Landlord rents an entire property on a room-by-room basis (ie each person rents a room and has shared access to all other areas such as living room, kitchen..) it is deemed a Tenancy as per the Residential Tenancies Act (2004) and is therefore subject to abide by the rules of the RTA.

That is not the case. Each person is not the tenant of a dwelling which is a pre-condition to be comprehended by the residential tenancies act. This was so decided by the PRTB in a case in 2006. Tribunal Reference Number TR10/DR532&589/2006.
Reasons for Decision of the Tribunal

On the facts agreed by the Parties the Tenant was not entitled to occupation of a “self-contained residential unit”.

Under the agreement entered into in December 2003 the Tenant is merely entitled to exclusive occupation of one bedroom and he shares other facilities including the kitchen, bathroom facilities and reception area facilities with other occupants.

The Landlord was of the view that the Tenant was not entitled to put a new lock onto the bedroom door. The Tenant contested this.

It is clear from the evidence that the letting does not come within the definition of “dwelling” as set out in section 4 of the Act of 2004. The shared facilities afforded to the Tenant could not be considered to be a “bed-sit” or any other form of “self-contained residential unit”.

It follows that the relationship between Landlord and Tenant is outside the scope of application of the Act of 2004 and the Tribunal does not have jurisdiction to determine the dispute.

Merch

variety wrote: »

Absolutely agree with other posters - Landlords can under NO circumstances retain money from a Tenant's deposit for cleaning.

However, the OP is not a Landlord. Rent-a-room tenants (ie lodgers) generally have very few legal rights conferred on them as in a normal LL-tenant relationship.

OP, tell him the deposit will be withheld if he does not clean to the room to the standard it was when he moved in (and also give it to him in writing). If he doesn't clean it (or cleans it only a little) you have three options:
1. Keep all of the deposit
2. Keep some of the deposit
3. Keep none of the deposit.
It's up to you - as a Lodger, he has no Tenant rights so you can really do whatever you want.

And there's no need to "give him a month" as you say - he is a lodger, you can give him as little as 48 hours if you want to.

Now, I don't agree with the above, but that's the drawback of being a Lodger and not a Tenant in Ireland.

I thought it was 24 hours notice, it used to be 24hrs.
Tell him to clean the room and to the standard it was when he got it or you will deduct some money from the deposit (if its really bad) got a pic?
If its you have high standards (which I am fine with) then at least he will hopefully have done some cleaning and save you some effort, if he makes no effort, tell him you are getting a cleaner in, if he makes some but is the sort that isnt that arsed then be shot of him and finish the job yourself, its your house, advertise it in advance if you want but I would consider leaving it till you have given him notice, if he asks why just be honest and say you cant have the place being in a mess/ not happy.

Rented a room to a person that never opened the windows in their room and turned the rads down all over the house without permission except their room(and other rooms they didnt have access to) presumably in an effort to cut bills (was tight **** in other ways too) wouldnt mind they were on a fulltime well paid job.
Cleaning the mould in their room from lack of ventilation took me two days.
If they cant keep it clean let them live somewhere else.

D3PO wrote: »

people need to stop posting their opinion here and stick to the facts. Opinion is a waste of time in this scenario and unhelpful.

FACT you cannot keep deposit or part of a deposit for cleaning END FACT

Sorry, can you back that fact up? how is that fact
few people I let a room to in the past wouldnt clean up near leaving, I'd tell them to sort or I'd deduct, soon moved their arses.
If they were generally decent I wouldn't bother but if they were a manky sh$t then NO

Jo King

Merch wrote: »

I thought it was 24 hours notice, it used to be 24hrs.

It is entirely a matter of contract. There is no 24 hours or 48 hours specified anywhere, nor ever was. A guest can be thrown out of a hotel on the spot. The remedy for an aggrieved person is to sue in contract. Charges for cleaning are entirely a matter of contract.

Merch

Jo King wrote: »

It is entirely a matter of contract. There is no 24 hours or 48 hours specified anywhere, nor ever was. A guest can be thrown out of a hotel on the spot. The remedy for an aggrieved person is to sue in contract. Charges for cleaning are entirely a matter of contract.

ok I will try find what I have, sure I saw something about 24 hours, I have a book somewhere, will see if I can dig it out.