Civil servants' college fees paid

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http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/sep/05/civil-servants-college-fees-paid/

Staff at the Houses of the Oireachtas received €85,000 towards their third-level fees in the first eight months of 2010. Thirty-three members of staff applied to be reimbursed for costs incurred in studying, under a scheme operated by the Department of Finance for all civil-service departments.


A spokesman for the Oireachtas said the scheme was an investment in its employees. "Expenditure on post-entry education is an investment to enhance the public service to meet the challenges facing it. The scheme aims to assist the development of new management and operational skills, foster new ways of working and to im*prove work performance."


According to information obtained by the Sunday Tribune, courses taken by staff this year included public administration, public procurement, legal studies, European languages and human resources. On average, the cost of a part-time course is €6,000.


Staff have also been told they must do the courses primarily in their own time and not let it take up working hours.


"All courses must lead to a second- or third-level educational, professional or vocational qualification directly relevant to the requirements of the office or a qualification in a language other than English. They must also be provided by a recognised educational institute or professional body and be pursued primarily in employees' own time," said the spokesman.


Staff of all seven universities in Ireland are also entitled to have the cost of a course refunded under the scheme. Each year, a 'mini fair' is held in the Dáil inviting colleges to create stands to showcase their courses to members of staff.


President of the Union of Students in Ireland (USI) Gary Redmond said: "We would welcome any initiative that encourages this kind of development – we should be upskilling and aspiring towards lifelong learning."


The Houses of the Oireachtas is, meanwhile, attempting to cut back on operational costs, and has cut its budget by €33m.


"The budget allocation for the three-year period to end 2012 covered in the plan is €360m. This expenditure consists of salaries, wages and expenses of Houses of Oireachtas employees, salaries and expenses of TDs and senators and other standard operational costs associated with running the Houses of Oireachtas," said the spokesman.

Whilst the rest of the country has to practically cheat the system to get them paid or rob a bank to pay for fees,and we told we must tighten our belts,then this sort of cheek happens :mad:

PCPhoto

havent you heard ...theres one rule for the PAYE worker ...and a different rule for Civil Servants !!

(ok...all jokes aside - I would prefer if the government offered to pay half of actual college fees and the person interested would pay the other half...a quick way to see who actually wants to upskill...and who just wants to get an extra qualification and do a course....'cos its free !!)

there are many companies who offer a similar service (pay for college courses) - but these generally tie you into a contract for a number of years of work following your qualification...so they can get the benefits of the qualification.

EDIT: I'd like to see what courses were actually covered - and if they were relevant to the civil servants career/position. (its pretty pointless someone doing a photography course if they have no use for it (or potential use for it) in their job..... how many people did the underwater basket weaving course !! - yes people there is an underwater basket weaving course...or at least there was a few years ago.

Brussels Sprout

Meh, I'm normally all for a good public sector rant but I've got no beef with them getting more education. It might mean that we have less incompetents running the departments of state in the future.

RichardAnd

Guys before this starts off on the usual trend let me just say that private companies spend money to send staff to college too. A cousin of mine is doing a masters at the moment and it is entirely funded by the accountancy firm he works for who are 100% private.

PCPhoto

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Meh, I'm normally all for a good public sector rant but I've got no beef with them getting more education. It might mean that we have less incompetents running the departments of state in the future.

I spotted this after I edited my previous post .... and its a similar agreement.... if the qualification is relevant to their job or is potentially relevant.... no point in an offer worker doing a car mechanics course - if he intends staying in his civil servants job and if he wants to change careers....we shouldn't be paying for it.

PCPhoto

RichardAnd wrote: »

Guys before this starts off on the usual trend let me just say that private companies spend money to send staff to college too. A cousin of mine is doing a masters at the moment and it is entirely funded by the accountancy firm he works for who are 100% private.

I already mentioned that companies offer this (or at least they used to) ... but tend to tie the "employee" into a contract so they can get the benefits of his/her qualification.

mikemac

This goes in the private sector too of course.

The employee pays the fees and if HR approves you get 50% back and the other 50% if you pass the test.
Exam leave and study leave too.

Sure accountancy firms send staff on masters courses.
And there are courses I know of that cost €1,700 for six weeks

Realy OP, you may be fuming but this is standard terms and conditions for lots of people in professional jobs.

Staff at the Houses of the Oireachtas received €85,000 towards their third-level fees in the first eight months of 2010. Thirty-three members of staff applied to be reimbursed for costs incurred in studying, under a scheme operated by the Department of Finance for all civil-service departments.

Well from my reading of this, these civil servants paid out their money up front and then applied to be reimbursed.
So they're pretty committed to the courses if they will spend their own money on it first

ParkRunner

I'm doing one of these courses at the moment and you only get the fees paid IF the course is directly relevant to the job. The better qualified the policy makers and decision takers are in the civil service, the more value for money you get in the long term. I have signed a document too tying me into the job for a number of years so I can't run off as soon as I qualify...there are fully funded people in the private sector too doing the course. It's a great resource and motivator for staff in my opinion

Head The Wall

feelingstressed wrote: »

And there are courses I know of that cost €1,700 for six weeks

A Microsoft course would cost you that for 1 week.

I have no problem them doing relevant training but the crux is will it be used or is it more ego massaging. I have come across it in IT sections in a few councils around the country. Staff get loads of Microsoft training and still get in Contractors to do work that they should be doing.

Again I would have no belief that they get vetted properly in relation to this scheme because of the way the whole PS operates. They shouldn't do the course unless they have to have a qualification or unless it improves their ability to do their job.

Most people will have no faith in how the PS administer things like this, there are too many stories of abuse and wastage

changes

This is very common in the private sector also, their employer has an interest in the upskilling of their staff.

Public servants need approval for this sort of support are very unlikely to get it if its for something completely unrelated to their work or the work carried out by their employer. They prob wouldn't get approval to study art history if they work in the engineering dept etc.

matrim

I'd have no problem with something like this once it's a relevant course to their job and they only get paid on successful completion.

Cookie_Monster

I'm private sector and my company pays for college fees (once relevant and minimum working time or refund due)
Not a big deal IMO

sock puppet

PCPhoto wrote: »

I already mentioned that companies offer this (or at least they used to) ... but tend to tie the "employee" into a contract so they can get the benefits of his/her qualification.

The Civil Service do it as well.

ardmacha

This thread is precisely what is wrong with this forum, a shock horror thread about something that is normal enough in employment and is generally desirable. If more went to economics or management courses things might not be the way they are.

ParkRunner

ardmacha wrote: »

This thread is precisely what is wrong with this forum, a shock horror thread about something that is normal enough in employment and is generally desirable. If more went to economics or management courses things might not be the way they are.

Another day, another use by the media of an FOI request to make a headline, which the civil service had to waste time and resources answering

Head The Wall

They charge a fee for the service.

kippy

Head The Wall wrote: »

A Microsoft course would cost you that for 1 week.

I have no problem them doing relevant training but the crux is will it be used or is it more ego massaging. I have come across it in IT sections in a few councils around the country. Staff get loads of Microsoft training and still get in Contractors to do work that they should be doing.

Again I would have no belief that they get vetted properly in relation to this scheme because of the way the whole PS operates. They shouldn't do the course unless they have to have a qualification or unless it improves their ability to do their job.

Most people will have no faith in how the PS administer things like this, there are too many stories of abuse and wastage

I dont think paying for staff to get further education is a waste of money especially in this "knowledge economy" we hear so much about and and especially in the public service where you would hope that extra knowledge will eventually lead to cost savings down the road and increased efficiencies.

I've worked for both private and public sectors (in I.T) and have had extensive further education paid for by both sectors which has benefited both sectors.
This is not just a public sector "perk" and employees should be encouraged and assisted as much as possible in both sectors to further their education.

There is an issue regarding IT in the public sector (that you've mentioned) whereby consultants are regularly employed to do any major setups and this is something that concerns me however for certain areas getting a guy in who is a consultant with viable practical experience in many fields in to assist with a major setup is actually a good option (not always but it can be).
The courses have to be related to your role generally in either sector before they will be paid for.

This is one headline about the public/civil sector that is a none story in my opinion unless the OP is advocating employers not supporting their staff with further education.

fif

I think it's a great to see staff motivated to better themselves and not get stuck in the one role, bitter and not caring. In my place of employment we had similar - certain amount of fees repaid on passing the exam if relevant to work and on condition employee stays with employer for number of years. Unfortunately downturn has meant the scheme has been disbanded but hopefully it will eventually return. It can only benefit the employer, who in this case is us...I'm sick of sensational media stories about the civil service and the semi-state.

Welease

Maybe if journalists in this country took some courses the quality of the media might not be so piss poor.

Pete_Cavan

RichardAnd wrote: »

Guys before this starts off on the usual trend let me just say that private companies spend money to send staff to college too. A cousin of mine is doing a masters at the moment and it is entirely funded by the accountancy firm he works for who are 100% private.

There is no problem with a private company spending their own nomey no employees education, however, I do have a problem with the Department of Finance spending €120 million a year of taxpayer's money on their employees education.

kippy

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There is no problem with a private company spending their own nomey no employees education, however, I do have a problem with the Department of Finance spending €120 million a year of taxpayer's money on their employees education.

Why do you have a problem with this?

(BTW most private companies use the education fees for their staff as a tax break) I've no issues with this either by the way but you may have seeing as technically the taxpayer is also paying for it.....
Taxpayers also pay for student grants as well by the way, do you have issues with this?

katkin

I know of a local authority employee who got a primary degree paid for by the council. Hello? Why the eff didn't they hire someone who had one done already? Oh ya, that would make too much sense. They don't work there anymore either.

Gumbo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There is no problem with a private company spending their own nomey no employees education, however, I do have a problem with the Department of Finance spending €120 million a year of taxpayer's money on their employees education.

private companies use the college fees as a cost and can right all/most of it off as an expence against their tax liability IIRC

whats the problem with it?

katkin wrote: »

I know of a local authority employee who got a primary degree paid for by the council. Hello? Why the eff didn't they hire someone who had one done already? Oh ya, that would make too much sense. They don't work there anymore either.

i got my degree paid for by my old company, im not there anymore either. just becasue you go to college with one company doesnt mean your stuck with them for life.

RichardAnd

ardmacha wrote: »

This thread is precisely what is wrong with this forum, a shock horror thread about something that is normal enough in employment and is generally desirable. If more went to economics or management courses things might not be the way they are.

I agree. A head line like that is Journalism ala RTE. That is to say, ambiguous headlines that are true enough hold water yet misleading in that they tell only a part of a larger story. I'd say this generated a few days of tripe for Joe Duffy to justify his existence with.