The strange death of MI6 agent Gareth Williams.

Oracle

Gareth Williams was working for MI6 when his body was found in the bath of his London flat, inside a padlocked sports holdall. He was working at MI6, previously he had been working for GCHQ, the UK’s top-secret listening post in Cheltenham. The area he working in was code breaking and cipher,

According to an article in the Daily Mail, Mr Williams informed his employer MI6, that he believed he was being followed, in the months before his death. The article also claims, that police detectives say, the investigation into his death is being obstructed, by both MI6 and GCHQ.

There remains unanswered questions about his death; the flat had no signs of forced entry, his brain showed no bruising (consistent with being drugged before hand), his personal laptop is missing and an unknown white powder was found in his flat.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1308900/Gareth-Williams-A-secret-stalker-Witnesses-wont-talk--But-whos-got-missing-laptop.html#ixzz0ygzZes00

Oracle

Update, tests are being carried out for poisoning by a rare drug, poison or radiation. Also CCTV images are released. He appears to me to be very thin: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1309610/Was-poison-Two-weeks-murdered-spy-bath-baffled-police-release-CCTV-victim-probe-radiation-theory.html

demonspawn

In all fairness the guy was a spy. Spies get killed all the time, it's the nature of the game. No CT here I'm afraid, or at least not a very interesting one. I don't really care about an MI6 agent, he works for the scumbags we're trying to uncover. They killed him, mystery solved.

Oracle

Interesting comment Demonspawn, if you think MI6 killed him, then why did they kill him? I'm not sure I agree with your analysis that there's no conspiracy here. Even accepting your theory, that his employer killed him, then at the very least, there's a conspiracy to cover up the facts.

demonspawn

Oracle wrote: »

Interesting comment Demonspawn, if you think MI6 killed him, then why did they kill him? I'm not sure I agree with your analysis that there's no conspiracy here. Even accepting your theory, that his employer killed him, then at the very least, there's a conspiracy to cover up the facts.

No, MI6 didn't kill him. The folks that MI6 works for killed him. He probably stumbled onto something he shouldn't have and payed the ultimate price.

Either that or another spy agency like the C.I.A. or the Russians killed him. Who knows? The spy game is a dangerous business and not really worth wasting time thinking about.

meglome

I have to admit my initial reaction was a sexual motive. Single and possibly gay MI5 guy found dead in a carry-all. Would international agents or British ones for that matter kill him and leave him in a carry-all in the bath? Unless they were pretty poor at their jobs I'd have to guess not.

Oracle

Another bizarre spin on the Gareth Williams story in The Sun. Someone somewhere is very busy spinning all these stories to the press. Notice how each story is tailored for its particular audience; the thoughtful, "intelligent", "spooks" style treatment for The Daily Mail, and the trashy, titillation, with a hint of begrudgery for The Sun. For example, his employer owned "safe house" becomes "his £400,000 top-floor flat". Its the classic sign of planted, pre-prepared stories. All this spinning means there must be a lot to hide.

alastair

Oracle wrote: »

Another bizarre spin on the Gareth Williams story in The Sun. Someone somewhere is very busy spinning all these stories to the press. Notice how each story is tailored for its particular audience; the thoughtful, "intelligent", "spooks" style treatment for The Daily Mail, and the trashy, titillation, with a hint of begrudgery for The Sun. For example, his employer owned "safe house" becomes "his £400,000 top-floor flat". Its the classic sign of planted, pre-prepared stories. All this spinning means there must be a lot to hide.

Umm - salacious tabloid paper provides tabloid spin, broadsheet (oh, okay the Mail) takes a different slant - and how is this different to every other story across the papers day after day? It's the constant nature of the media, not the ('planted' or otherwise) story.

demonspawn

The maths genius, loner and cycling fanatic had not turned up for work as a cipher and codes expert at the headquarters of MI6, half a mile from Alderney Street, on the banks of the Thames at Vauxhall.

Yet, in a worrying twist, the Mail understands that a turf war has
broken out between the police and MI6, with some police officers *complaining that the spooks are *hindering their investigation into the spy’s death.

He had information that would damage some people very high up. He was killed because of that information, the murder was made to look like the government wasn't responsible, and we will never know what he knew. Case closed.

He probably thought he was above his station, demanded money to keep quiet, and was murdered instead. This happens every day.

Yitzhak Rabin

demonspawn wrote: »

Case closed.

What are you going to solve next Sherlock?

demonspawn

yekahs wrote: »

What are you going to solve next Sherlock?

I'm gonna trace your ip and see if you're really a Freemason or just put that in your sig to antagonize us poor CTers.

Edit: And I think trying to guess the identity of a poster is against the charter. The fact that I may or may not be Sherlock Holmes is of no concern to you. :rolleyes:

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

I have to admit my initial reaction was a sexual motive. Single and possibly gay MI5 guy found dead in a carry-all. Would international agents or British ones for that matter kill him and leave him in a carry-all in the bath? Unless they were pretty poor at their jobs I'd have to guess not.

Possibly gay? :D

WTF does that mean?

As for the James Bond illusion your under of "international agents" take a look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ9FVKsdTvg

meglome

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Possibly gay? :D

WTF does that mean?

He may have scored a randomer and got more then he bargained for. Depends of course if any of the newspaper gossip is correct.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

As for the James Bond illusion your under of "international agents" take a look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ9FVKsdTvg

Yeah but the guy was dead and in a carry-all, in an otherwise empty flat, for two weeks. I would have thought that some trained spies could dispose of the carry-all easy enough. All speculation for now though.

namloc1980

Oracle wrote: »

...the thoughtful, "intelligent", "spooks" style treatment for The Daily Mail...

demonspawn

meglome wrote: »

He may have scored a randomer and got more then he bargained for. Depends of course if any of the newspaper gossip is correct.



Yeah but the guy was dead and in a carry-all, in an otherwise empty flat, for two weeks. I would have thought that some trained spies could dispose of the carry-all easy enough. All speculation for now though.

He was a spy working for MI6 just down the road and he was missing for two weeks. Does that not strike you as odd? Wouldn't MI6 send someone down to the house after a couple of days to see it the guy was ok? Not if they killed him. Maybe they just couldn't be arsed taking him out of the bag. What difference would it make? They're probably sending a very clear message to any other spies that might think about blabbing.

meglome

demonspawn wrote: »

He was a spy working for MI6 just down the road and he was missing for two weeks. Does that not strike you as odd? Wouldn't MI6 send someone down to the house after a couple of days to see it the guy was ok? Not if they killed him. Maybe they just couldn't be arsed taking him out of the bag. What difference would it make? They're probably sending a very clear message to any other spies that might think about blabbing.

Why haven't they killed the other spies that blabbed in the past? And why kill this guy in such a way suspicious way?

joebucks

demonspawn wrote: »

He was a spy working for MI6 just down the road and he was missing for two weeks. Does that not strike you as odd? Wouldn't MI6 send someone down to the house after a couple of days to see it the guy was ok? Not if they killed him. Maybe they just couldn't be arsed taking him out of the bag. What difference would it make? They're probably sending a very clear message to any other spies that might think about blabbing.

What is odd is that MI6 say he was missing for 2 weeks yet his sister claims to have spoken to him on the phone the previous weds.

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-news/featured-stories/2010/09/02/chester-based-sister-of-dead-mi6-spy-helping-scotland-yard-investigation-59067-27182455/

Oracle

A few more inconsistencies and unlikely "facts" in the Daily Mail article:

1) According to the Daily Mail, the MI6 "safe house" is ".... one of many owned by MI6 dotted around Pimlico, which have been swept for listening devices and kept under surveillance." This house was kept under surveillance, yet they don't know where Gareth Williams was for 8 days, can't trace any of the people who came and went from the house or how Gareth Williams died. Sounds like a very "unsafe house" to me.

2) The white powder they said was found at the flat, "... is being tested in case it is cocaine .... " I think most people know the Met police have drug test kits that give instant results for cocaine. Maybe there was no white powder, and the point of mentioning it is to suggest there was drug taking going on.

demonspawn

Yup, its all complete bullsh*t to be honest. This guy cracked codes for a living. I'll bet a week's wages he cracked a code that he wasn't supposed to see, or that was to important for anyone else to know about, and he was killed to make sure it stayed a secret.

meglome

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/naked-spy-found-dead-in-a-bag-was-probably-playing-sex-game-2344346.html

Naked spy found dead in a bag 'was probably playing sex game'

Gareth WIlliams, believed to have died in a sex game

By Duncan Gardham in London

Monday September 20 2010

THE spy whose naked body was found in a sports bag in an empty bath was probably involved in an unusual sex game, police now believe.

Officers have ruled out almost every other possibility. They have come to the view that Gareth Williams probably died after climbing into the bag which was then locked by another person. It is unclear whether he did so on instructions from the other person or was locked in at his own request.

However, detectives believe that he was probably indulging in a sadomasochistic game in which he got a thrill from being helpless. ...

joebucks

meglome wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/naked-spy-found-dead-in-a-bag-was-probably-playing-sex-game-2344346.html

That is one nasty smear.

meglome

joebucks wrote: »

That is one nasty smear.

Or maybe he died the way that is being suggested. It does happen, the only difference in this case is he worked for MI5. You only have to spend five minutes on the internet to see what goes on out there in suburbia.

joebucks

meglome wrote: »

Or maybe he died the way that is being suggested. It does happen, the only difference in this case is he worked for MI5. You only have to spend five minutes on the internet to see what goes on out there in suburbia.

Yeah maybe so. However if MI5 wanted this story quashed, I think they could have kept it out of the press. I find it strange that the case got so much coverage and suspect a smear campaign against Williams.

WakeUp

This guy, imo, has stumbled upon something so sensitive that he needed to be silenced by the powers that be. I reckon his own people took him out, they have already muddied the water and sown the seeds of doubt with all the storie's flying around about his personal life and stuff. They seem to be hindering the Police investigation aswell.

He was obviously competent at his job as one agency borrowed him from the other. Maybe he was the best of the best. MI6 is responsible predominantly as far as I know for keeping tabs on foreign intelligence with MI5 looking after domestic. M16 might have come across something they couldn't crack, they got this guy involved, he cracked it then they realised it was so serious or sensitive that he had now become a threat and had to be taken out.

In the report it quotes a source claiming he had told M16 he was being followed but they never reported it to the police and took no action. That isn't really unusual I dont think it was probably M16 that were tailing him or if he was being followed by someone else, M16 were probably tailing the tailer's and by getting the police involved it would have only got in the way of either of those two situation's. All in all I think he came across something really sensitive, I don't see any point in a foreign intelligence agency taking him out as once the code is cracked or whatever it is cracked the knowledge is out in the open. I think it was an inside job.

humanji

joebucks wrote: »

Yeah maybe so. However if MI5 wanted this story quashed, I think they could have kept it out of the press. I find it strange that the case got so much coverage and suspect a smear campaign against Williams.

Many think MI5 are behind David Kelly's death, yet they couldn't keep that out of the paper. And in fairness, a smear campaign is a little messy to set up. A car crash would be more efficient. Accidents happen all the time, and it's only the peculiar details of this case that make it newsworthy.

I'm not sure if him coming across something sensitive (keep it clean, people! ) fits this case. He was on loan, so it's unlikely he would have been trusted to work on his own without someone watching over him. The chances of him being put in a position that he'd recieve information that would require his termination seems a little too coincidental.

Unless, maybe the reason he was hired was because waht ever work he was doing would require a low level technician, and they would generally not be privy to such info. So once the job was done, the technician would have to be gotten rid of. There's no point getting rid of your own people, so they hired someone else in. Just a though.

Also, if he stumbled upon something top secret, this story is incredibly similar to the fiml "The Whistleblower" (except the means of death, but in both cases it'd be a case of murder made up to look like something else).

enno99

meglome wrote: »

Why haven't they killed the other spies that blabbed in the past? And why kill this guy in such a way suspicious way?

The circumstances of Mr Rusbridger's death are as bizarre and mysterious as the recent fate of the Tory MP Stephen Milligan. The latter's colleagues angrily denounced disclosures about his corpse (naked but for women's stockings, bag on head, orange in mouth, flex around throat). They seem unexercised by the equally prompt - and weird - disclosures concerning Mr Rusbridger's (the oilskins, the gasmask - and a rope connecting neck and ankles to a series of pulleys). Why did the man-in-a- mask in Bodmin rate a less anxious response than the man-in- a-bag in Hammersmith

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/death-of-an-iconoclast-cal-mccrystal-considers-the-life-of-james-rusbridger-whom-he-met-in-1992-1395357.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rusbridger

Brown Bomber

meglome wrote: »

Or maybe he died the way that is being suggested. It does happen, the only difference in this case is he worked for MI5. You only have to spend five minutes on the internet to see what goes on out there in suburbia.

Do you honestly believe that it's more likely he got his rocks off to volunatarily being locked naked in a bag that he somehow locked from the inside, that air couldn't pass through, without a phone or pen knife or some emergency escape route?

Well at least we all know how to stump the combined services of the UK police and intelligence agencies if you ever want to murder someone. Force them into a locked bag at gunpoint and leave them to die, and then get a few of your hack friends to plant fake and conflicting news stories in the press on the victim.

Police could never conclude foul play after that. Genius.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that it's more likely he got his rocks off to volunatarily being locked naked in a bag that he somehow locked from the inside, that air couldn't pass through, without a phone or pen knife or some emergency escape route?

Well at least we all know how to stump the combined services of the UK police and intelligence agencies if you ever want to murder someone. Force them into a locked bag at gunpoint and leave them to die, and then get a few of your hack friends to plant fake and conflicting news stories in the press on the victim.

Police could never conclude foul play after that. Genius.

I don't think the cops have ruled out foul play

Officers have ruled out almost every other possibility. They have come to the view that Gareth Williams probably died after climbing into the bag which was then locked by another person. It is unclear whether he did so on instructions from the other person or was locked in at his own request.

However, detectives believe that he was probably indulging in a sadomasochistic game in which he got a thrill from being helpless. ...

I presume they are still looking for the other person.

Concluding that he was obviously murdered by MI6 is just as ridiculous as dismissing foul play, imo.

Scram

is this the guy who they said on the news died of the oul "erotic exfixiation"..but yet they found him in a suitbag or something??

Brown Bomber

Scram wrote: »

is this the guy who they said on the news died of the oul "erotic exfixiation"..but yet they found him in a suitbag or something??

Yeah but instead of putting a noose round his kneck he locks himself ina hold all from the inside with the lock on the outside with no way out.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yeah but instead of putting a noose round his kneck he locks himself ina hold all from the inside with the lock on the outside with no way out.

Where are you getting this from. The police have said someone else closed the bag.