Common questions on Graduated Driving Licence rollout

MascotDec85

From the RSA http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Graduated-Driver-Licensing/Common-questions-on-GDL-rollout/

I already hold a learner permit for a car how do the changes affect me?

The compulsory lessons as announced will not apply to you as you already hold a learner permit in the licence category. The lessons will apply to those taking out a first time learner permit after the dates for introducing the lessons.

Why are compulsory lessons needed by learner drivers?

We learn skills in many different ways, the research about learning to drive tells us that a combination of formal lessons from a driving instructor covering the basic skills and many hours putting the skills in practice under supportive supervision is the best way to learn to drive.

Many learners already take lessons with the focus largely on how to pass the driving test and this is important. However, the aim of the programme of lessons now being developed is to build long term skills that will benefit the learner for life.

What will be involved in the compulsory Motorcycle lessons?

An initial basic training programme covering on road and off-road lessons has been developed calling on best practice. The lessons will cover rules of the road, motorcycle controls, technical checks, managing the vehicle and motorcycle riding skills. View the Compulsory Basic Training Course Syllabus for Motorcycling (PDF)

The off-road element will be delivered by the driving instructor in a secure compound while the instructor will also oversee the on-road lessons. Completing all the lessons will take a minimum of 16 hours.

Whilst there is no formal examination at the completion of the lessons, continuous assessment will be used by the trainer to satisfy him/herself that the learner has completed the modules satisfactorily as they progress through the programme.

What will be involved in the compulsory Car lessons?

Presently, the training programme is being developed and the lessons will cover the key skills needed by a learner driver. Among the aspects the programme will cover include - knowledge of rules of the road, understanding your vehicle, vehicle manoeuvring, developing hazard perception skills and responsibilities of the driver to other road users.

The learner will be able to take the lessons at any point during the learning process and can practice with an accompanying driver during the time while taking lessons. Completing these lessons will take a minimum of 12 hours. Evidence of completing the lessons will be signed off in a learner’s logbook by the Approved Driving Instructor. There will not have a formal examination at the completion of the lessons; however, continuous assessment will ensure that the learner has satisfactorily progressed through the programme.

A number of countries already require mandatory lessons, in the Czech Republic there is a minimum of 34 hours, in Poland 30 hours, while a minimum of 13 hours is required in Austria.

How will the lessons be enforced?

You will get a certificate when you finish your course of lessons and this must be kept with your learner permit.

For both Car and Motorcycle lessons you will have to present evidence of having taken the lessons before taking a driving test. Motorcycle riders must complete the programme before driving unsupervised on the road while a learner.

Will the RSA set the price for compulsory lessons?

No - there are presently some 1,800 ADI’s in Ireland and this allows for a strong element of competition in the market. These ADI’s have met set standards relating to their own knowledge of rules of the road, their driving skills and the ability to deliver tuition.

What changes are planned for the driving test?

It is proposed to introduce changes to the test in late 2011. Research shows that with specific changes to the test the learning experience can be improved. As an example both Holland and the UK have introduced aspects of independent driving to the test and this is being considered for introduction here.

Generally, this involves asking the learner to drive to a set point (which is usually a local landmark) without direction from the driver tester, this requires decision making by the learner that has been shown to be a good indicator of driving ability. It is planned to carry out a pilot phase of any changes with first time learner permit holders to assess its effectiveness.

The driving test service will be subject to external accreditation.

How will the role of the accompanied driver be strengthened?

The best way to learn is to practice the skills you have learned. A rounded driver needs to have driven many thousands of kilometres to experience the many different kinds of traffic, weather and road conditions that demand a reaction from a driver.

It is now well established that learning under the guidance of a knowledgeable supervisor is an effective way to build up driver competence. Too often the experience in Ireland is that the accompanying driver acts in a passive role. Suitable support and guidance material is now being developed to help the accompanying driver better understand the role he or she can play in the learning process- driver reference manuals will be published shortly.

Following the passing of legislation the role of the accompanying driver will be formalised to include signing off on aspects of the practice sessions undertaken with the learner, and must present a signed log book before taking a driving test.

What is the significance of introducing R Plates?

This recognises that the learning process continues after the driving test is passed- for that reason some restrictions should continue to apply to drivers for two years after taking out a full licence.

New legislation is needed to introduce the R Plate. A restriction will apply to full licences after September 2011 when the lower alcohol levels are applied to drivers for a period of two years after taking out a full licence.

It is also planned to apply a higher level of penalty points to learner and novice drivers for specific high risk offences when the legislation is in place. The R Plate also indicates to other road users that you are a novice driver.

What changes will happen to the driver theory test?

The driver theory test was updated in 2006 and it will be further enhanced in late 2011.

Jaafa

Im getting my permit on September 7 or a little afterwards.....I wont need to get compulsory lessons for my full license will I?

MascotDec85

Jaafa wrote: »

Im getting my permit on September 7 or a little afterwards.....I wont need to get compulsory lessons for my full license will I?

No, you won't. Any First Learner Permit gained after 4th April 2011 will be subject to the mandatory lessons

Jaafa

Thank you.

**Timbuk2**

I currently hold a full licence which is dated the 28th of May, 2010. Will the rules about the R-Plates affect me after April, as I have a full licence that is less than 2 years old?

BTW thanks for the FAQ - it is extremely helpful and concise!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jumpy

This does not seem logical. I would assume that only those on the new scheme would have a requirement to display Rs.
If they mimic other countries with this in place then the R plates are an entirely different license category than a full licence driver. With a specific printed license.
This would not be workable if full licence holders already have their printed license.

LookBehindYou

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I currently hold a full licence which is dated the 28th of May, 2010. Will the rules about the R-Plates affect me after April, as I have a full licence that is less than 2 years old.

Ans = You are ok,no restriction.

MascotDec85

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I currently hold a full licence which is dated the 28th of May, 2010. Will the rules about the R-Plates affect me after April, as I have a full licence that is less than 2 years old?

BTW thanks for the FAQ - it is extremely helpful and concise!

What is the significance of introducing R Plates?

This recognises that the learning process continues after the driving test is passed- for that reason some restrictions should continue to apply to drivers for two years after taking out a full licence.

New legislation is needed to introduce the R Plate. A restriction will apply to full licences after September 2011 when the lower alcohol levels are applied to drivers for a period of two years after taking out a full licence.

It is also planned to apply a higher level of penalty points to learner and novice drivers for specific high risk offences when the legislation is in place. The R Plate also indicates to other road users that you are a novice driver.

This

**Timbuk2**

Thanks for the answers!

MascotDec85 wrote: »

This

I read that but I wasn't sure if it asnwered my question. By September 2011, I still won't have my full licence for two years. It just says for 'full licences after September 2011' - this could still mean that after September 2011 I will have to display R Plates up until May 2012. No?

MascotDec85

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Thanks for the answers!


I read that but I wasn't sure if it asnwered my question. By September 2011, I still won't have my full licence for two years. It just says for 'full licences after September 2011' - this could still mean that after September 2011 I will have to display R Plates up until May 2012. No?

I take your point

It does say "full licences after September 2011'

To me, this would be any full licence issued on or after a specific date in Sept 2011.

eg. For talking sake you passed your test in August 2009. Will they make you display R plates for a month, a few weeks or a matter of days?

I'd doubt it tbh


See where I'm coming from?

**Timbuk2**

Thank you! I see where you're coming from - I doubt they would apply the new rules retrospectively. At least I hope they don't anyway.

Treora

Wow the flaws are endless with this one. I can see insurers raising their rates on R drivers that they would not have done in the past for similarly qulaified people. So when you have passed your test you really haven't passed your test.

This will be a massive expense to new drivers, which will reduce the number of qualified drivers. People will think that this is a good thing, but you want everyone to be a master driver. You do not want people that cannot get a job because they had to take out €4000 from the local credit union to get the lessons, on top of paying for the exam/licence/car/petrol/tax/parking/insurance...

It looks like a case of trying to get more instructors off the dole by moving the consumer economy back to the survival service economy rather than forward to the useful products economy.

What about people who don't have parents and no one is willing to sit in with them for their "thousands of practice kilometers".

Just have regional centres paid by the tax payer where people can go for two weeks and drive, attend lectures and lessons non-stop 24/7. This would be a catch all for new, refresher and penalised drivers. A nation of efficient and effective master drivers using less fuel, with fewer accidents & deaths and lower insurance costs.

This new system was a sad and bad (though much needed) attempt to fix the old ways. It smacks of a business analyst being glued to a grenade and having the pin removed. Then told that he can have the pin back when he has written a full brief on the reform of the driver testing system. All in all it will drop 1-2% off the economy in the first 4 years of being introduced.:eek:

Permabear

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challengemaster

Seems absolutely stupid to me to start restricting people who already have full licenses and would have been driving to the full extent of it...

I've done well over 15-20k miles since I started driving 2 years ago, and I'm more than likely a much safer driver than some older people on the roads. I know I'm far from the only one who's done this either, and I think it'd be insane to class me/others doing high milage in all conditions with people who have just passed a test, especially because of the date when the test was passed.

This whole 2 years thing is probably the worst idea ever. People can drive 50k miles in 2 years, or never drive at all. To say either would be equally "qualified" to sit in a car with a learner is insane. When my girlfriend was learning, I couldn't be the qualified driver due to a date, yet, every time she went for practice, I was the one sitting in the passenger seat because the "qualified" driver wouldn't be able to react/handle things if something happened.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

challengemaster

Being completely honest, I'd assume you're probably more safe for the year or so after your test. If anything, it'd be where people aren't used to conditions they could come across and would take it more cautiously... and what little driver training we have, is still fresh in their minds..

spurious

Apart from anything else, it is utterly laughable that ANY consumption of alcohol is tolerated for a driver, learner or other.

Permabear

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Max Power1

spurious wrote: »

Apart from anything else, it is utterly laughable that ANY consumption of alcohol is tolerated for a driver, learner or other.

+1

As soon as this notion (that having a pint or two and driving homw) is removed from the irish pschye, the roads will be a lot safer.

Incidentally, wrt **Timbuk2**, I am in the same situation having passed my test recently. My view of the policy would be that, similar to legislation, it cannot be introduced retrospectively, and it will not apply to me.

Surely a "restricted" license will be a different licence class, in between a learner permit and a "full" licence as it currently stands, and as such will require those driving as a "restricted" driver will need a different type of license?

Del2005

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

As soon as this notion (that having a pint or two and driving homw) is removed from the irish pschye, the roads will be a lot safer.

Incidentally, wrt **Timbuk2**, I am in the same situation having passed my test recently. My view of the policy would be that, similar to legislation, it cannot be introduced retrospectively, and it will not apply to me.

Surely a "restricted" license will be a different licence class, in between a learner permit and a "full" licence as it currently stands, and as such will require those driving as a "restricted" driver will need a different type of license?

It'll more then likely be like the current A licence. When you pass your test you get the licence but in two sections.

A<25kw from 06 Sep 2010 to 05 Sep 2012
A from 06 Sep 2012 to 05 Sep 2020

Max Power1

Del2005 wrote: »

It'll more then likely be like the current A licence. When you pass your test you get the licence but in two sections.

A<25kw from 06 Sep 2010 to 05 Sep 2012
A from 06 Sep 2012 to 05 Sep 2020

Exactly.

So it will need to be noted on your license. As I already have mine (and timbuk2 already has his) we cannot be subject to this change.