Loss of Culture: Good or Bad?

liah

This is kind of going to end up as a stirring thread, but I really don't mean it to be; it's borne of genuine curiousity and I figured AH would hit a more.. eh.. "diverse" audience than Humanities.

So, my question is this.

With the increase of global multiculturalism (i.e., the majority of first-world nations are rapidly becoming vastly multicultural), there's a definite hit to individual cultures in general.

I love diversity. I love different cultures, different people, different languages and heritages and histories. I love precisely all the things that make each nation and people and culture different. But it's fading. Everything's becoming fairly homogenized-- most of us all watch American TV, American movies, eat fast food, listen to the same sort of Western music. No matter where you are, so long as the country's "developed" enough.

While this is a good thing in the sense that racial/cultural divides can dissipate and hopefully people will become more educated about each other, it's a bad thing (to me, at least) in that we just lose so much.. individuality, I guess.

From travelling more and more and seeing just how much the world is alike itself (even with a language barrier), I find myself saddened at the thought of all that's lost. I love the idea that people are being logical and rational and thinking themselves out of outdated social constructs, beliefs, etc., but.. if everything's the same, it's so boring. I don't want to be a part of a generation that instead of respecting and appreciating different cultures and beliefs, simply expects them to become the same as everyone else. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we're trying to do?

I guess it looks like there's a no-win situation: either, "multiculturalism" means people slowly becoming a part of Western culture but at least becoming less racist/bigoted/whatever else, or people keeping their cultures and beliefs and things that make them individual but yet keeping the massive divides and hatred alive when displaced.

Can there be no balance? Or have we managed to evolve past the requirement for individual culture?

How long will it take before the world is completely homogenized?

starbelgrade

liah wrote: »

How long will it take before the world is completely homogenized?

This will never happen. Culture & identity are ever evolving things & whilst many things cross over & are absorbed and shared, there are too many different cultures, languages & countries for the whole world to become homoginised.

WindSock

There is no loss of culture, just a change or building atop another. There will never be a complete global homogenisation as there are too many people with different values and beliefs that will always keep the place diverse and interesting. Cultures always evolve, to be insular and deject / reject change and not learn to adapt is far more damaging in the long run. Take the Amish for example. If they don't embrace certain freedoms, their young are going to flee and their culture will die out quicker.

The Agogo

Cultural change is a good thing.

Probably won't homogenize, but rather just be aware of other cultures in greater detail.

Gone Drinking

liah wrote: »

I figured AH would hit a more.. eh.. "diverse" audience than Humanities.

I've seen your picture in the Know Your Nerds Thread Liah, and you'd get it.

KungPao

I don't think we'll all end up the same. For centuries we have sampled things from other cultures and absorbed them into our own, but ultimately retained our own identities.

For example, I'm sure Mcdonalds is all over India and the middle east, but then again we all eat curry and kebabs. And the most "Irish" of things, the potato, is from the Americas. Give and take.

And you probably won't hear Westlife on Radio Yemen 101.3FM

landsleaving

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I've seen your picture in the Know Your Nerds Thread Liah, and you'd get it.

I was just thinking, 3 reasonable and intelligent replies, this is not right, but then you restored my faith in after hours.

PeterIanStaker

KungPao wrote: »

And you probably won't hear Westlife on Radio Yemen 101.3FM

Hurray for Yemen!!

stovelid

The idea of pitting a supposedly static culture against 'multiculturalism' in a national context is a little bogus. Perhaps it's more accurate to view both as different stages of an constantly evolving culture.

Banned Account

Meh, culture is overrated - just another excuse to accuse people of eating swans - what the feck does it matter?

WindSock

landsleaving wrote: »

I was just thinking, 3 reasonable and intelligent replies, this is not right, but then you restored my faith in after hours.

And mine I totally contradicted in the first and last line. Hooray indeed :pac:

conorhal

In the 80's Thatcher pronounced that "There is no such thing as Society, there are men, women and families", and thus began an aggressive drive for an Anne Rand style deconstruction and the ultimate atomization of society down to the level of the individual.
This trend was advocated by both the ideological left that saw any collective identity a threat to individual liberty and resistant to ideological change thus blocking revolution, and the ideological right wing economic libertarians that that preferred people to be identified as economic units and by their patterns of consumption.
This has happened to an extent, you had Francis Fukuyama proclaim 'The End of History', assuming that the McDonaldization of society was complete and that we would all soon succumb to a globalized consumerist society. How wrong the events of 9/11 proved him to be. He simply forgot Santayana’s adage that 'those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it'

I predict I cultural comeback, these things tend to be cyclical and cultures are always in flux. As culture is generally based on collective needs, and when needs are few so are cultural ties, the death of the Celtic Tiger might well inspire a certain cultural re-awakening.

fontanalis

What irish culture is there to lose?

_feedback_

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I've seen your picture in the Know Your Nerds Thread Liah, and you'd get it.

Excellent

Anyway liah, back to your post . .

liah wrote: »

I love diversity.

They were grand, but I thought Susan Boyle should have won tbh.

Cookie_Monster

fontanalis wrote: »

What irish culture is there to lose?

skangers would be a good start

Latchy

fontanalis wrote: »

What irish culture is there to lose?

the one were strangers kill you with kindness and cups of tea . If and when that goes then all is lost .


will ya have a cuppa tea or are ya on the ol expresso now ? :pac:

WesternZulu

fontanalis wrote: »

What irish culture is there to lose?

Grown men in their man yo and liverpool tops :rolleyes:

Owwmykneecap

The idea of Irish culture; British culture; yakult culture etc is nonsense anyway.
A forced sense of shared identity, based on nothing more than the geographical randomness of your birth.


I like japanese video games, british rock music that stemmed from the black american blues, tea; a drink with origins in india, and french food and wine.

I have no love for the gaa or sean nós singing. someone else who isn't me, who likes them can keep them going and if no one bothers, if they die, they die. /Ivan Drago

Ultimately we all pick and choose what aspects of culture we support.

PeterIanStaker

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

skangers would be a good start

Skangers are not culture - unless you mean this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_medium

losthorizon

Ive travelled all over the world and only the Irish can make proper tea and proper crisps. The english with their "breakfast tea" ugh and walkers crisps are nothing like barrys and taytos. Thats our culture!

Oh, and Flann O'Brien - he should be worshipped abroad.

neil_hosey

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

The idea of Irish culture; British culture; yakult culture etc is nonsense anyway.
A forced sense of shared identity, based on nothing more than the geographical randomness of your birth.


I like japanese video games, british rock music that stemmed from the black american blues, tea; a drink with origins in india, and french food and wine.

I have no love for the gaa or sean nós singing. someone else who isn't me, who likes them can keep them going and if no one bothers, if they die, they die. /Ivan Drago

Ultimately we all pick and choose what aspects of culture we support.

If you love al these different parts of different cultures, surely you can see the benefits of varying cultures then... All the things you mentioned above wouldnt exist if there was no such thing as cultural diversity...

Rabble Rabble

neil_hosey wrote: »

If you love al these different parts of different cultures, surely you can see the benefits of varying cultures then... All the things you mentioned above wouldnt exist if there was no such thing as cultural diversity...

Yeah, the whole diversity he loves depends on the cultures being different in the first place. And the dislike of Sean-Nos, and GAA is a particular post-imperial hangup.

However, the question is rather moot. Ireland already has lost it's culture, pretty much did so under the Empire, and it is not going to get it back. And how diverse are the multi-culturalists anyway - most of the culture Owwmykneecap loves is Anglo, and video games are universal.

Rabble Rabble

losthorizon wrote: »

Ive travelled all over the world and only the Irish can make proper tea and proper crisps. The english with their "breakfast tea" ugh and walkers crisps are nothing like barrys and taytos. Thats our culture!

Oh, and Flann O'Brien - he should be worshipped abroad.

Funnier than PG WodeHouse - the second funniest man in the English language.

liah

I'm not just talking about Ireland btw. Talking in general.

Rabble Rabble

liah wrote: »

I'm not just talking about Ireland btw. Talking in general.

Ok, well the French and Germans won't lose their culture as completely as Ireland has. Nor will Britain. Smaller countries which have maintained their languages have a better chance too. Language and laws are intrinsic to culture.

losthorizon

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

And the dislike of Sean-Nos, and GAA is a particular post-imperial hangup.

I think thats untrue. You'll find that a lot of english people for instance are against the monarch or that most young people everywhere hate their own countrys traditional music.

I quite like folk music but Sean-nos drives me round the bend.

Rabble Rabble

losthorizon wrote: »

I think thats untrue. You'll find that a lot of english people for instance are against the monarch or that most young people everywhere hate their own countrys traditional music.

I quite like folk music but Sean-nos drives me round the bend.

You find very few countries where a national sport is hated with the fervent hatred some people have for the GAA. you will get some Americans who hate baseball, I suppose, but they are few and far between.

_feedback_

liah wrote: »

This is kind of going to end up as a stirring thread, but I really don't mean it to be; it's borne of genuine curiousity and I figured AH would hit a more.. eh.. "diverse" audience than Humanities.

So, my question is this.

With the increase of global multiculturalism (i.e., the majority of first-world nations are rapidly becoming vastly multicultural), there's a definite hit to individual cultures in general.

I love diversity. I love different cultures, different people, different languages and heritages and histories. I love precisely all the things that make each nation and people and culture different. But it's fading. Everything's becoming fairly homogenized-- most of us all watch American TV, American movies, eat fast food, listen to the same sort of Western music. No matter where you are, so long as the country's "developed" enough.

While this is a good thing in the sense that racial/cultural divides can dissipate and hopefully people will become more educated about each other, it's a bad thing (to me, at least) in that we just lose so much.. individuality, I guess.

From travelling more and more and seeing just how much the world is alike itself (even with a language barrier), I find myself saddened at the thought of all that's lost. I love the idea that people are being logical and rational and thinking themselves out of outdated social constructs, beliefs, etc., but.. if everything's the same, it's so boring. I don't want to be a part of a generation that instead of respecting and appreciating different cultures and beliefs, simply expects them to become the same as everyone else. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we're trying to do?

I guess it looks like there's a no-win situation: either, "multiculturalism" means people slowly becoming a part of Western culture but at least becoming less racist/bigoted/whatever else, or people keeping their cultures and beliefs and things that make them individual but yet keeping the massive divides and hatred alive when displaced.

Can there be no balance? Or have we managed to evolve past the requirement for individual culture?

How long will it take before the world is completely homogenized?

Agh, sure isn't it grand the way it is.

liah

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

You find very few countries where a national sport is hated with the fervent hatred some people have for the GAA. you will get some Americans who hate baseball, I suppose, but they are few and far between.

You can find an awful lot of Americans who loathe American football, an awful lot of Europeans who despise soccer, an awful lot of Canadians who despise hockey, etc.

That's pretty standard anywhere you go.

Rabble Rabble

liah wrote: »

You can find an awful lot of Americans who loathe American football, an awful lot of Europeans who despise soccer, an awful lot of Canadians who despise hockey, etc.

That's pretty standard anywhere you go.

These people tend to hate all sports. If you can find a sport loving american hating BaseBall ( which is considered the national sport) online, good luck.

However even finding one would not be the same as finding many.

ScumLord

Culture is also dictated by environment so you'll never have everyone under the one culture banner because they won't have the same influences feeding into their culture.

I saw a documentary before that also said one of the main advantages humans had over Neanderthals was our ability to exchange culture. Neanderthals while pretty much just as smart as us didn't show any signs of cultural exchanges and seemed to stay within their own tribal or family groups not interacting with each other like we did. Some suspect this was the cause of their downfall, they couldn't compete with an entire species working together.

The gaa and trad music don't alone make Irish culture it a way of thinking acting and feeling that make a culture....its why a solution to a social problem will work in one culture and not in another .......

If someone was describing say a resident of the UK they might say they are very English and you would know exactly what they meant by that....that is culture in my opinion.

Something that always surprises me is the way some Irish woman identify with sex and the city? We are Irish and have a very different marriage and dating culture and we are very family orientated

southsiderosie

I think we need to back up and describe what exactly we mean by "culture", before claiming it is being destroyed. One of the better definitions I've seen is: a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code." I.e. culture isn't just music or food, it's knowing without anyone having to tell you how to behave in certain situations (or knowing how others will react or perceive a given situation).

If we use this broader idea of what culture actually is, then I think it is harder to claim that it is threatened by American hegemony or homogenization. For example, just because people in China like basketball and KFC doesn't mean that they don't have completely different belief systems and values from Americans.

I also think that culture is one of those things that you don't really recognize as such until you step out of it. I didn't realize how "American" I was until I moved to Europe. And from my view as an outsider, Irish people and Irish society seems very culturally distinct from English people/society. I'd say the same about, say, Dominicans and Spaniards, despite their shared linguistic, cultural, and political history.

Rabble Rabble

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think we need to back up and describe what exactly we mean by "culture", before claiming it is being destroyed. One of the better definitions I've seen is: a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code." I.e. culture isn't just music or food, it's knowing without anyone having to tell you how to behave in certain situations (or knowing how others will react or perceive a given situation).

If we use this broader idea of what culture actually is, then I think it is harder to claim that it is threatened by American hegemony or homogenization. For example, just because people in China like basketball and KFC doesn't mean that they don't have completely different belief systems and values from Americans.

I also think that culture is one of those things that you don't really recognize as such until you step out of it. I didn't realize how "American" I was until I moved to Europe. And from my view as an outsider, Irish people and Irish society seems very culturally distinct from English people/society. I'd say the same about, say, Dominicans and Spaniards, despite their shared linguistic, cultural, and political history.

Yeah, thats true. Although some people want to use culture to describe High Culture. A new word is needed for the general run of things.

Take something simple like the English queing system, the Irish and English apologetics ( saying sorry when people bump into you etc.), and the general way people walk, talk and interact.

That will remain diverse, worldwide, but it is culture?

ascanbe

Wait a minute, where's me culture?

Little My

Didn't Fukuyama change his mind?

losthorizon

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Take something simple like the English queing system, the Irish and English apologetics ( saying sorry when people bump into you etc.)

That will remain diverse, worldwide, but it is culture?

Bump..... sorry