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Minister Ahern uses bank robbery as excuse to promote a cashless society.

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  • 03-09-2010 12:09pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    All the time we are hearing from officials that by eliminate cash from society we will have "more convenience" better security and "less administration".

    The ultimate goal of the cashless society is to strip you of your civil liberties and let the authorities digitally track all your movements and transactions    .

    9zmzv7.jpg

    "As is not surprising to anyone who is aware of some of the laws Dermot Ahern has introduced since becoming Irish justice minister, he tries to hide these constantly tyrannical acts behind the cloak of protecting victims of terrible crimes, but all you have to do is scratch the surface of his reasons giving to justify each of these acts to find the true purpose and meaning behind them.

    The latest crusade by Ahern is that in order to stop bank raids / tiger raids in Ireland we must become a cashless society, there is nothing new in this only last December there were articles about National Irish moving to cashless banking and talking about the need for Ireland to become a cashless society.

    While back in September 2003 the Irish Government held a Crime Prevention in Financial Institutions: Presentation in a joint committee sitting where John Hickey, then general manager of retail banking at AIB outlined his banks desire for a cashless society under the guise of stopping bank raids"    .

    http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1691


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    Is it possible that the bank robbery was staged so that they could pass such legislation?


  • Options
    #3
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    joebucks wrote: »
    Is it possible that the bank robbery was staged so that they could pass such legislation?

    No doubt about it. :p


  • Options
    #4
    veritable
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭veritable


    Is there any limit to the taxes the citizens are having forced upon them? What is the point on working anymore?


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    #5
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    veritable wrote: »
    Is there any limit to the taxes the citizens are having forced upon them? What is the point on working anymore?

    The top tax rate in the 80s was around 65%, I think its around 42% now, so its nowhere near as bad as then.


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    #6
    veritable
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭veritable


    Jeboa Safari wrote: »
    The top tax rate in the 80s was around 65%, I think its around 42% now, so its nowhere near as bad as then.

    Income levy?
    21% VAT?
    Car tax?
    Carbon tax?
    Electricity levy?
    Inheritence tax?
    Capital gains tax?
    2nd home tax?
    DIRT tax?
    Stamp duty?
    etc......................


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    #7
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    So cash is to blame for the bank robbery. :rolleyes: Heres a thought, maybe they should try getting rid of criminals instead.


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    #8
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    veritable wrote: »
    Income levy?
    21% VAT?
    Car tax?
    Carbon tax?
    Electricity levy?
    Inheritence tax?
    Capital gains tax?
    2nd home tax?
    DIRT tax?
    Stamp duty?
    etc......................

    Many of which were there in the 80s too.


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    #9
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    profitius wrote: »
    So cash is to blame for the bank robbery. :rolleyes: Heres a thought, maybe they should try getting rid of criminals instead.
    Like those that effectivly ran this country into the ground and have so far have gotten away with it. :rolleyes:


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    #10
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Apart from the frankly ridiculous assertion (even by CT standards) that the robbery was staged so that Ahern could say this, I for one would love a move towards a more cashless society. :)

    And before anyone decides to claim the only reason I want this is because I've been indoctrinated by some malevolent body, here are some of the reasons:
    • I was standing in the queue for the deli at lunch today and realised I couldn't get a Fudge Doughnut with my sandwich because I didn't have enough cash on me.
    • When I lost my wallet I was able to cancel all my cards within a matter of minutes, I couldn't recover the lost cash though.
    • Every time I fly home I need to get Euro from the bank before I leave. It'd be great if I could just travel knowing I could use my card everywhere.
    • The other night I was out I wasn't near an ATM so couldn't get food in the local chipper as I wouldn't have been able to afford a taxi home.

    :(


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    #11
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    gizmo wrote: »
    Apart from the frankly ridiculous assertion (even by CT standards) that the robbery was staged so that Ahern could say this, I for one would love a move towards a more cashless society. :)

    And before anyone decides to claim the only reason I want this is because I've been indoctrinated by some malevolent body, here are some of the reasons:
    • I was standing in the queue for the deli at lunch today and realised I couldn't get a Fudge Doughnut with my sandwich because I didn't have enough cash on me.
    • When I lost my wallet I was able to cancel all my cards within a matter of minutes, I couldn't recover the lost cash though.
    • Every time I fly home I need to get Euro from the bank before I leave. It'd be great if I could just travel knowing I could use my card everywhere.
    • The other night I was out I wasn't near an ATM so couldn't get food in the local chipper as I wouldn't have been able to afford a taxi home.

    :(

    +1
    Although the good thing about cash is you can run out at the end of a night, nothing worse than waking up in the morning and realising you use your atm card to buy more drinks :(


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    #12
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    profitius wrote: »
    So cash is to blame for the bank robbery. :rolleyes: Heres a thought, maybe they should try getting rid of criminals instead.

    Maybe when enough cars are stolen they'll force us all to ride the ridiculously overpriced bus?


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    #13
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    gizmo wrote: »
    Apart from the frankly ridiculous assertion (even by CT standards) that the robbery was staged so that Ahern could say this, I for one would love a move towards a more cashless society. :)

    And before anyone decides to claim the only reason I want this is because I've been indoctrinated by some malevolent body, here are some of the reasons:
    • I was standing in the queue for the deli at lunch today and realised I couldn't get a Fudge Doughnut with my sandwich because I didn't have enough cash on me.
    • When I lost my wallet I was able to cancel all my cards within a matter of minutes, I couldn't recover the lost cash though.
    • Every time I fly home I need to get Euro from the bank before I leave. It'd be great if I could just travel knowing I could use my card everywhere.
    • The other night I was out I wasn't near an ATM so couldn't get food in the local chipper as I wouldn't have been able to afford a taxi home.

    :(

    I too want my government to hold my hand for my entire life because I'm unable to sort myself out. I hate thinking for myself, please let the government think for me. It will make my life so much easier. :rolleyes:

    Now if you'll excuse me, my brain hurts from using all these words and letters.


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    #14
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    demonspawn wrote: »
    I too want my government to hold my hand for my entire life because I'm unable to sort myself out. I hate thinking for myself, please let the government think for me. It will make my life so much easier. :rolleyes:

    Now if you'll excuse me, my brain hurts from using all these words and letters.
    Why are you using a computer? It's made life easier for you. You don't have to travel around the world to find people with similar interests. You don't need a library of reference books clogging up your house. Does that make it a bad thing? Should we go back to the old ways of banging rocks together?


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    #15
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    humanji wrote: »
    Why are you using a computer? It's made life easier for you. You don't have to travel around the world to find people with similar interests. You don't need a library of reference books clogging up your house. Does that make it a bad thing? Should we go back to the old ways of banging rocks together?

    Nobody is forcing me to use this computer. It's entirely my choice. Lots of people don't have computers and they get by just fine. Oh, and you can't find everything on the internet. In fact, there is tons of info you have to go track down in some library somewhere.

    Edit: Oh, and if given the choice between my laptop and a library of thousands of books, I'd choose the library. Moderators can't come into my home and just delete any books they deem as inappropriate, at least not if they wanna keep breathing. ;)


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    #16
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    The CIA make things disappear all the time. ;)

    The thing is, a cashless system isn't a bad thing. The problem lies with the people who may abuse it. You can't say for certain that people would or wouldn't abuse it. It's all just speculation.


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    #17
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    humanji wrote: »
    The CIA make things disappear all the time. ;)

    The thing is, a cashless system isn't a bad thing. The problem lies with the people who may abuse it. You can't say for certain that people would or wouldn't abuse it. It's all just speculation.

    Until certain things which are currently illegal on "moral" gounds are legalised it is a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.


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    #18
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    humanji wrote: »
    The thing is, a cashless system isn't a bad thing. The problem lies with the people who may abuse it. You can't say for certain that people would or wouldn't abuse it. It's all just speculation.
    That's just asinine.Actually never mind,your post makes zero sense.
    A cashless system can be abused!


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    #19
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    digme wrote: »
    That's just asinine.Actually never mind,your post makes zero sense.
    A cashless system can be abused!
    It makes perfect sense. The conspiracy is that it's being designed to take away our freedom. The system itself is not a problem. It's the people who abuse it that's the problem. But at the moment, it's just scaremongering to say that it is going to be abused and out freedom is being taken from us.


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    #20
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    amacachi wrote: »
    Until certain things which are currently illegal on "moral" gounds are legalised it is a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

    Exactly. How will lads pay for brassers and doobie?


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    #21
    bytey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭bytey


    cashless society is the death of freedom , whether good or bad freedom

    Dermot is only passing on what his Bilder buddies have told him to say .

    couldnt have been more obvious and badly timed if you tried .


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    #22
    Con1988
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Con1988


    joebucks wrote: »
    Is it possible that the bank robbery was staged so that they could pass such legislation?

    why would they stage it, there is been a huge increase in Tiger Kidnapping, now I wouldn't put it past them to "fudge" the numbers as an excuse to bring such legislation in. It would be like the Patroic act in America, for their "own" safety; my left foot. just another way to keep legal tab's on everyone.

    http://www.cso.ie/Quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=cja01c15.asp&TableName=Robbery+,+extortion+and+hijacking+offences&StatisticalProduct=DB_CJ


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    #23
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    humanji wrote: »
    It makes perfect sense. The conspiracy is that it's being designed to take away our freedom. The system itself is not a problem. It's the people who abuse it that's the problem. But at the moment, it's just scaremongering to say that it is going to be abused and out freedom is being taken from us.
    Of course the system is the problem,the people created it,it serves a purpose and can be abused by the powers that be and I think you know they're the people who invented and run the dam thing.


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    #24
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    demonspawn wrote: »
    I too want my government to hold my hand for my entire life because I'm unable to sort myself out. I hate thinking for myself, please let the government think for me. It will make my life so much easier. :rolleyes:

    Now if you'll excuse me, my brain hurts from using all these words and letters.
    What a pile of nonsense. What does my desire for more shops and services to offer a cashless option have to do with the government holding my hand?

    As humanji pointed out there are several things in life we use which are specifically designed to make our lives easier. Unlike may of these, cashless alternatives are not something we have a choice in using a lot of the time because the option simply isn't there.

    In the examples I gave, for instance, it would have been extremely handy to simply know I could hop into a taxi, swipe my card on some sort of machine and be brought to where I wanted to go. Of course there is a danger of some of these services being misused, and rightly so, however there is just as much danger with cash forgeries yet we have dealt with these over the years quite capably.


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    #25
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    As it stands i wouldnt trust the current governments to bring in a cashless society.
    Since that isnt looking to change very soon regarding the governments i think the idea of a cashless society is ridiculous.
    And yes i wouldnt be suprised if i heard that the IRA or something raided a bank or postoffice or two so this legislation can be brought in.

    The cushion they've left was possibly this,
    Mr Ahern said while the banks, bank workers and the gardaí had gone to considerable lengths to reduce such robberies, known as “tiger raids”, it was now time to examine if the amount of cash in circulation in Ireland should be reduced. Imposing higher fees for ATM transactions might discourage a dependence on cash and in turn reduce the amount of cash held by banks that could be targeted by organised crime gangs.
    http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1691


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    #26
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    Torakx wrote: »
    And yes i wouldnt be suprised if i heard that the IRA or something raided a bank or postoffice or two so this legislation can be brought in.

    What are the RA up to here?

    Since when did terrorists start giving newspaper exclusives??
    The terror group stressed in a series of written answers to the Guardian's questions that future attacks would alternate between the "military, political and economic targets". It is the first time the Real IRA has engaged in such open anti-capitalist rhetoric or focused on the role of the banking system.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/14/real-ira-targets-banks-bankers


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