Should new warm up DJ's be paid?

Is mise le key

Before posting on this Poll you should read why the reason this poll was posted first here & then you decide,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055961661

jtsuited

you forgot the poll!

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

you forgot the poll!

Jeeesus, you have to be quick around here - Done sir.

jtsuited

See I think that's too simplistic a question. Judge every case on it's merits imo. Here are two different scenarios.

Scenario A - New dj who got traktor 6 months ago, is a bit of a hustler, and is talking all sorts of ambitious sh1te about himself. Lands a support slot with say Carl Cox in tripod. Now the only people who are there to see him are on the guest list.

He's gonna be harping on about how he supported Carl Cox in every horrific dj bio he writes for the next 5 years. In fact he might even land a residency because of it and make money further down the road. Anywho, his presence at the gig is completely and utterly irrelevant to the revenue generated.

Scenario B - New DJ who has been making serious waves with some tunes he put on soundcloud. Everyone in Dublin has been raving about him since they were sent the link on facebook. Respected labels are knocking down his door. About 100 people come just to see him. He puts a handful of his mates on the guestlist.

Now in scenario A, there's no way in hell I'd pay the guy (excluding a token sum for expenses). He's gonna get far more from it than I am (as the promoter).

In Scenario B, I'll pay as much as I can, because it's a good investment. Even if the fee is over the revenue he's generated, in two years time I'll be able to get him to play for a discounted fee, because he knows we believed in him in the beginning when he was taking his first tentative steps.

Two very different situations, so I don't think it's a black and white situation (to quote your good self from the other thread).

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

Two very different situations, so I don't think it's a black and white situation (to quote your good self from the other thread).

Thats why i began by saying to read the thread already posted on it as most of, if not all the angles have been explored by the contributers including 515 in that as they already hit on what you are saying above.

Read the thread first & then decide.

SteoL

Have read through the other thread and have to say yes. As people have said, cleaners are paid for mopping the jacks, why not those who entertain the crowd.

I have never paid professionally, I'll admit that first and foremost. For me mixing was a hobby and something to do when the mates or (mates of mates of mates..........) were having a house party. Even got to play at the odd *cough* illegal venues around Dublin. Sometimes a few quid was thrown my way, others time it was beers, spliffs, pills and lines. Either way, I was reimbursed for my efforts even though I'd an amazing time and the feeling I got for creating a certain "euphoria" for the crowds were amazing (I realise other things created the euphoria and I simply enhanced it). TBH nothing could really compare to the feeling of a crowd of people screaming your name at your choice of tunes/mixing and it's f'n great to see the reaction of a crowd when you stick on a tune you love.:)

Quiggers

undoubtidly yes, if he/she doesnt get paid then why should the resident, and the promoter is doing **** all besides facebook messaging so he/she should be given a lollipop and told good boy/girl.

take the example given, €12 a ticket, capacity? wild guess 1000, if its a sell out thats 12 grand, 50/50 split with the venue, thats 6grand, upto 2 of which goes to the international headliner act, then another grand between posters, flyers, warm up dj and support act and a few cute girls to hand out said flyers, ryanair ticket for headliner and a hotel room, another €300, so the promoter should pocket about €2500, and the tw*t is too mean to throw the warm up act €50 quid an hour. DUE!

Jev/N

I said no.

Some guest list and/or beers and/or some taxi money would suffice for the first few times. After that, it should be re-thought.

My gripes with the other thread, which I expressed early on before 515 got involved, was the attitude that you had to bring a following down to be allowed to play.

For me, most of my friends are DJs, promoters, music-lovers with specific interests and other gigs to attend etc. so I can rarely muster up a crowd enough to satisfy such a demand, that's why it irks me. It's perfect for the 18 year-old who's friends are delighted to be going into Tripod or wherever, on a guest list.

RMD

Personally if I was the promoter I'd pay the warm-up DJ on his performance and I'd tell him / her that exactly before they even play.

I'd have no problem paying an unknown but talented DJ for warming up, but I'd certainly have a problem giving money to someone talentless and couldn't put a good set together for their life.

jonnny68

I got paid for playing a huge gaff party in Wicklow in the 90's but it wasn't money i got;) but yeah regardless of who you are you should be getting paid as someone says a cleaner gets paid for mopping the jacks so why not the warm upDJ.

SteveDon

Its a no from me aswell. Until they have proved themselves a few times there is no need to pay a warm up dj. Think about the basic supply and demand aspect here, plenty of good djs are willing to pay for free so why give the gig to someone thats expecting money.

Ive never played a gig and talked about cash before hand. Sometimes i get paid sometimes i dont, i dont really worry about it now, im trying to establish a name for myself and every gig is a blessing. If and when i do establish some kind of name for myself then of course i will be asking about cash up front. But for ****s sake like djing is loads of fun and its an amazing hobby so a new warm up dj should be grateful to get a slot.

Quiggers

do it once for free, do it forever free

brianc27

jtsuited wrote: »

Scenario A - New dj who got traktor 6 months ago, is a bit of a hustler, and is talking all sorts of ambitious sh1te about himself. Lands a support slot with say Carl Cox in tripod. Now the only people who are there to see him are on the guest list.

He's gonna be harping on about how he supported Carl Cox in every horrific dj bio he writes for the next 5 years. In fact he might even land a residency because of it and make money further down the road. Anywho, his presence at the gig is completely and utterly irrelevant to the revenue generated.

for starters theres not a hope in hell anyone other then an already "respected" name or resident dj would ever warm up for carl cox, but anyway if by chance that did happen then id still throw the support a few quid as a thanks for warming the crowd up, 50 quid or there abouts, just a small token of thanks.

jtsuited wrote: »

Scenario B - New DJ who has been making serious waves with some tunes he put on soundcloud. Everyone in Dublin has been raving about him since they were sent the link on facebook. Respected labels are knocking down his door. About 100 people come just to see him. He puts a handful of his mates on the guestlist.

i would ask him how much he'd be looking for to do the gig, and work it from there. if its a really small night and this person is producing tracks for the right reasons then money how big or small shouldn't really be much of an issue, if it was a big venue ala tripod then he'd be payed pretty much what hes looking for (as long as his/her fee is reasonable).

getting paid for a gig is really just a gesture of appreciation for doing a decent job of warming a crowd up, everyone deserves their dues.

now this is all relative to tripod or some other equally big venue, if i was playing at a really small night that i know is run on pittance then i wouldn't expect anything really, as i know there'd be nothing to give, to anyone.

electrogrimey

Basically, no. Warm up DJs are like interns. You don't pay interns. They're there to learn how to DJ, and no-one ever gets paid to learn something.

Android 666

electrogrimey wrote: »

Basically, no. Warm up DJs are like interns. You don't pay interns. They're there to learn how to DJ, and no-one ever gets paid to learn something.

Eh, no they're not. Interns learn on the job with experienced professionals guiding them. A warm-up DJ can't turn around and ask the headliner for help.
And whether Interns should be paid is a whole different kettle of fish...

Also they analogy about the bathroom cleaner that somebody made earlier is completely redundant because let's face it nobody wants to clean the jacks but plenty of people want to be a warm-up DJ…

b45

electrogrimey wrote: »

Basically, no. Warm up DJs are like interns. You don't pay interns. They're there to learn how to DJ, and no-one ever gets paid to learn something.

idiotic response . Being a good warm up dj is almost more difficult a job than playing last .

brianc27

electrogrimey wrote: »

Basically, no. Warm up DJs are like interns. You don't pay interns. They're there to learn how to DJ, and no-one ever gets paid to learn something.

not all djs who get warm up slots are only learning, some of them could be around years and be excellent djs and have played numerous gigs in other places

brianc27

b45 wrote: »

idiotic response . Being a good warm up dj is almost more difficult a job than playing last .

thats true, warming up is a much tougher task as youve to play at that level were your not banging out the big hitters yet your not boring the arse of the crowd, alot more thought goes into a warm up set then a main set.

electrogrimey

b45 wrote: »

idiotic response . Being a good warm up dj is almost more difficult a job than playing last .

If it is such a hard job then why is it given to new bedroom DJs who've never played out before? This isn't a debate about the intricacies of playing warm-up slots, it's about paying bedroom DJs who are getting their first gig playing to an empty room with 5 blokes sitting around starting their pints.

brianc27 wrote: »

not all djs who get warm up slots are only learning, some of them could be around years and be excellent djs and have played numerous gigs in other places

It's assumed in this thread that we're not talking about the DJ warming up for Plastikman, or the warm up DJ in Berghain, we're talking about the bedroom DJ who's never played a gig, putting on a few tunes in the Cafe in the Button Factory or somewhere like that.

brianc27 wrote: »

thats true, warming up is a much tougher task as youve to play at that level were your not banging out the big hitters yet your not boring the arse of the crowd, alot more thought goes into a warm up set then a main set.

Again, it's a hard job in a big club that's full early for a crowd looking forward to the international DJ on after. Being a warm-up DJ in a medium size club in Dublin isn't very tough. You can play more or less anything you want, as long as it's not heavy, and you don't even need to bother mixing.

b45

electrogrimey wrote: »

If it is such a hard job then why is it given to new bedroom DJs who've never played out before? This isn't a debate about the intricacies of playing warm-up slots, it's about paying bedroom DJs who are getting their first gig playing to an empty room with 5 blokes sitting around starting their pints.



It's assumed in this thread that we're not talking about the DJ warming up for Plastikman, or the warm up DJ in Berghain, we're talking about the bedroom DJ who's never played a gig, putting on a few tunes in the Cafe in the Button Factory or somewhere like that.



Again, it's a hard job in a big club that's full early for a crowd looking forward to the international DJ on after. Being a warm-up DJ in a medium size club in Dublin isn't very tough. You can play more or less anything you want, as long as it's not heavy, and you don't even need to bother mixing.

look its common knowledge that warming up well is a skill in its own right . the fact that promoters in dublin have resorted to giving the slots to wet behind the ears djs who have only been playing traktor for a few months doesnt change that . i can only assume you are an electro house dj or some other genre where the is no such thing as a warm up or its just not important but talk to any deep house / techno dj and they will explain the importance of a good warm up to you , especially if there is a guest brought its very important for the crowd and music to be a certain point when they get on .

seannash

b45 wrote: »

look its common knowledge that warming up well is a skill in its own right . the fact that promoters in dublin have resorted to giving the slots to wet behind the ears djs who have only been playing traktor for a few months doesnt change that . i can only assume you are an electro house dj or some other genre where the is no such thing as a warm up or its just not important but talk to any deep house / techno dj and they will explain the importance of a good warm up to you , especially if there is a guest brought its very important for the crowd and music to be a certain point when they get on .

hang on grimey is making a valid point.someone who is playing from 10 til 11 will be playing to nobody,absolutely nobody except the staff.

very rare that a new dj will be playing on a bill with a headliner and be playing immediately before them.

electrogrimey

b45 wrote: »

look its common knowledge that warming up well is a skill in its own right . the fact that promoters in dublin have resorted to giving the slots to wet behind the ears djs who have only been playing traktor for a few months doesnt change that . i can only assume you are an electro house dj or some other genre where the is no such thing as a warm up or its just not important but talk to any deep house / techno dj and they will explain the importance of a good warm up to you , especially if there is a guest brought its very important for the crowd and music to be a certain point when they get on

Look, it's common knowledge that for ordinary clubnights in Dublin the early DJs don't function like the warm-up DJs you'll find in big dance clubs around Europe. It's a completely different thing. I realise that being a proper warm-up DJ is an incredible skill, I've enough experience in both warm-up and headline slots to realise that. But that kind of slot rarely happens in Dublin. It only really does for international DJs, which isn't what we're talking about here.

For pretty much every kind of dance the warm up DJ is important by the way, not just deep house and techno.

In Dublin, the "warm-up DJ" is moreso a backround music DJ. He could easily be replaced by iTunes. He's not there to warm up the crowd and get them dancing, he's there to make sure there's some kind of music on while people are coming in. Why should someone get paid to play to an empty room, with absolutely no pressure on him? The only reason the promoters give him the slot is to give bedroom DJs a chance to practice with a decent system.

b45

so when you said warm up djs are like interns who shouldnt get paid what you meant to say was : For pretty much every kind of dance the warm up DJ is important by the way, not just deep house and techno.

Keith186

For me the answer is no.
Unless of course you can command a fee, well then that's another story if they want you that much.
Should at least get a few free drinks though and some mates on the guest list.

electrogrimey

b45 wrote: »

so when you said warm up djs are like interns who shouldnt get paid what you meant to say was : For pretty much every kind of dance the warm up DJ is important by the way, not just deep house and techno.

What? Did you even read my post? Out of an 8 line post, you quote 1, which was just responding to a stupid point made by yourself. Fair play.

SEANYBOY1

b45 wrote: »

idiotic response . Being a good warm up dj is almost more difficult a job than playing last .

Agreed, I went to see Sound Crowd play their 1st ever gig in the Ormond in 1994 and there was an idiot DJ on first killing the atmosphere in the place, heard he was from the North. I know a couple of people who actually left because of him and where furious the next day when they heard how good the night turned out in the end:mad:

electrogrimey

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

Agreed, I went to see Sound Crowd play their 1st ever gig in the Ormond in 1994 and there was an idiot DJ on first killing the atmosphere in the place, heard he was from the North. I know a couple of people who actually left because of him and where furious the next day when they heard how good the night turned out in the end:mad:

A post about a night 16 years ago. Helpful. Also talking about a warmup DJ for a gig. Neither have anything to do with the discussion at hand...

Is mise le key

electrogrimey wrote: »

They're there to learn how to DJ, and no-one ever gets paid to learn something.

Fás

electrogrimey

Is mise le key wrote: »

Fás

Before Fas you go through, what, 18 years of not getting paid to learn, and in most cases having to pay to learn. Fás is a pedantic point.

Is mise le key

electrogrimey wrote: »

Before Fas you go through, what, 18 years of not getting paid to learn, and in most cases having to pay to learn. Fás is a pedantic point.

Hang on, you said clearly that no one gets paid to learn, but when i just provided one example in return you find it pedantic??

The fact that you learn in school etc without getting paid is irrelevant, i have attended many training courses for work & am paid while doing it, also when you become an apprentice in whatever trade you are paid while you learn your trade. Far from never getting paid to learn something there is quite a few situations where you are. Warm up DJ'ing in a venue like 515 after they have deemed your mix good enough having heard it prior to you actually playing is another one in my opinion.

electrogrimey

Is mise le key wrote: »

Hang on, you said clearly that no one gets paid to learn, but when i just provided one example in return you find it pedantic??

The fact that you learn in school etc without getting paid is irrelevant, i have attended many training courses for work & am paid while doing it, also when you become an apprentice in whatever trade you are paid while you learn your trade. Far from never getting paid to learn something there is quite a few situations where you are. Warm up DJ'ing in a venue like 515 after they have deemed your mix good enough having heard it prior to you actually playing is another one in my opinion.

A training course for work is completely different, seeing as you'll probably have already worked there for a while when you have to do it.

Your first warm-up slot is much closer to an interview, especially if future gigs depend on it. Getting paid for an interview is ridiculous.

Is mise le key

electrogrimey wrote: »

A training course for work is completely different, seeing as you'll probably have already worked there for a while when you have to do it.

Your first warm-up slot is much closer to an interview, especially if future gigs depend on it. Getting paid for an interview is ridiculous.

Our company from time to time may need to call in temp workers for as little as a day sometimes to get us through a backlog, even if the worker sucks & is no good at it they get paid but wont be asked back. would the mix that has been previewed not be a good enough barometor of whether or not you can mix & have the tune selection for the venue & the onus then being on the people choosing the DJ's from this to make the right choices of warm up DJ???

Perhaps the people in charge of choosing the DJ's should be told that the new warm up DJ's get paid €50 & if their choice of DJ sucks then it comes out of their wages as the DJ has done their part even if he is crap but the management havent. I.E. providing what the punters want!

Jev/N

CLARIFICATION?: As far as I'm aware, we're talking about new warm-up DJs not being paid for the first, say, five or so times they play for 'X' night, not whether they should be paid at all. I'm getting the impression that some posters are on about the latter point here so can we agree on what we're discussing?

Again, I'm for warmup DJs being paid, of course. Maybe just not the first few times they play. Then again, as I mentioned in my previous post, some sort of payment should always be forthcoming in lieu of cash, be it beers, guestlist or taxi.

My main gripe with the other thread was the requirement of having to bring 'a following' so to speak, on top of passing the grade, mix wise.