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Taoiseach Hints at removing An Taisce blockage

  • 02-09-2010 10:57pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    When An Taisce got a special statutory right to observe on or comment on or object to elements of infrastructure development it was a wide chuch body of historians aesthetes and general heritage people.

    Since then it has been taken over 'Trotskyist Entrist' style by loony greens, ( not the party card carrying type in a lot of cases) to the point that any non conforming sort of member is thrown out.

    Brian Cowen has intimated to the Connaght Tribune that their special status is coming to an end.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/14769-cowen-hints-dilution-taisces-powers
    The Taoiseach has hinted that he is looking at possible changes to the planning system which would treat third party objections differently to those ‘rooted in the community’. And while Mr Cowen didn’t specifically refer to An Taisce, this was a clear reference to their often-controversial role, particularly in Connemara.


    He said that any changes could mean that “objections rooted in the community” could have a different status to more general types of objections or submission

    Mr Cowen was speaking to the Connacht Tribune in Ballyconneely as he ended his summer holidays in west Connemara.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,219 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    So, where you live now determines whether you are right or wrong? :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Where you live certainly determines whether An Taisce are an arbitrary and permanent pain in the hole. Connemara is one such place. You may have noticed there is no Connemara branch of An Taisce, it would be as tasteless to form one as setting up a Nazi party branch in Israel.:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Rooted in the community don't make me laugh - Sligo County Council took no notice of 200 people in a village of 650 people objecting to a housing estate in 2005. They gave PP, and ABP after much deliberation backed them up. An Taisce, Failte Ireland and the heritage counsel also objected. the housing estate was thankfully never started but the permission still sits there.

    Cowen is a prat on most things and says what people want to hear when he is "down the country"

    Rooted in the community makes no fecking difference. county councils planning departments are useless and totally dependent on "influence".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    I think FF and this ****e coalition of crooks and cranks is likely to bite the dust long before they can remove An Taisce's special place in the planning process. It will all be over by Christmas. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    I think FF and this ****e coalition of crooks and cranks is likely to bite the dust long before they can remove An Taisce's special place in the planning process. It will all be over by Christmas. :D

    JD: I actually feel sorry for the poor Fookers who will be taking over - I hear on the grapevine their may even be a special ginger beer tax coming in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    So basically objections from Dublin based self-appointed environmentalists such as Peter Sweetman for projects such as the Galway Bypass would not carry as much weight as objections from Galway based people who are actually affected by the non-building of the Bypass? Sounds excellent to me!!! The current situation cannot be allowed to continue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    KevR wrote: »
    So basically objections from Dublin based self-appointed environmentalists such as Peter Sweetman for projects such as the Galway Bypass would not carry as much weight as objections from Galway based people who are actually affected by the non-building of the Bypass? Sounds excellent to me!!! The current situation cannot be allowed to continue.


    In fairness Kev, as much as I dislike the obsessional objector syndrome from far and wide, if we are to prevent "national" groups from objecting to stuff, it contradicts the "national" aspects of the NTA in making decisions on a "localised" issue. Whatever about daft An Tasice objections, sometimes locals are so full of "agendas" on local issues, that an outside viewpoint can provide a far better analysis of the situation.

    "Environmentalism" is a world wide thing, so the "dublin based" argument is just sticks and stones.

    For the record Im not an environmentalist or An Taisce member. If changes are to be made, they should be made throughout the planning process. What Brian Cowen is alluding to in his comments is just more of the same oul ****e carry on, of the hand doing one thing while the leg does another. We need cohesion and not various County Councils doing what suits them locally. This should apply to planning and objections.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I If changes are to be made, they should be made throughout the planning process. What Brian Cowen is alluding to in his comments is just more of the same oul ****e carry on, of the hand doing one thing while the leg does another. We need cohesion and not various County Councils doing what suits them locally. This should apply to planning and objections.

    We have far too many planning/water/roads/housing authorities for a population so small.

    They should abolish county everythings and run them as regions based on the current 8 Regional Authorities. Galway has 3 separate planning authorities and 3 plans....which is utterly daft. Yet it has one library authority.

    One head of water, one head of roads , one head of planning and one plan for each Region. Then we may get some cohesiveness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭ D'Peoples Voice


    westtip wrote: »
    Rooted in the community makes no fecking difference. county councils planning departments are useless and totally dependent on "influence".
    To be fair, on balance, I don't think this accusation can be levelled at every council. Wicklow County Council is one exception, although after that, I'm having problems thinking of another council that behaved as it should have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    westtip wrote: »
    Rooted in the community don't make me laugh - Sligo County Council took no notice of 200 people in a village of 650 people objecting to a housing estate in 2005. They gave PP, and ABP after much deliberation backed them up. An Taisce, Failte Ireland and the heritage counsel also objected. the housing estate was thankfully never started but the permission still sits there.

    Cowen is a prat on most things and says what people want to hear when he is "down the country"

    Rooted in the community makes no fecking difference. county councils planning departments are useless and totally dependent on "influence".

    If this "rooted in the community" thing did come in it would give those 200 people in that Sligo village more influence than any other agency or self-appointed protector of the environment, surely this is a good thing. It is too easy for ABP to dimiss objections from locals along with the objections of people who want to make things that are none of their business, their business. If the planning permission for that housing estate was granted in 2005 it will run out soon so if this did come in the objections by locals would be taken more seriously if they reapplied.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 The Raven.


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    If this "rooted in the community" thing did come in it would give those 200 people in that Sligo village more influence than any other agency or self-appointed protector of the environment, surely this is a good thing. It is too easy for ABP to dimiss objections from locals along with the objections of people who want to make things that are none of their business, their business. If the planning permission for that housing estate was granted in 2005 it will run out soon so if this did come in the objections by locals would be taken more seriously if they reapplied.

    That is totally incorrect information. You obviously haven't read the new Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill, which allows developers to extend their planning applications for a further 5 years.

    How on earth would objections by locals be taken more seriously? This is utter nonsense! The councils have no interest in the wishes of the local communities. This has been seen time and time again. Their main interest in planning applications is the developers' levies - more money for cash-strapped councils. An Bord Pleanala will take appeals seriously if they are well informed and on valid grounds. I will admit that they don't always get it right.

    Brian Cowen's idea is an absolute con, destined to leave local community objectors much more vulnerable, without the support of An Taisce and other relevant bodies. The only people to gain from this are the self-serving developers and politicians.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,219 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    KevR wrote: »
    So basically objections from Dublin based self-appointed environmentalists such as Peter Sweetman for projects such as the Galway Bypass would not carry as much weight as objections from Galway based people who are actually affected by the non-building of the Bypass? Sounds excellent to me!!! The current situation cannot be allowed to continue.
    So for every gombeen FF hack its business as usual then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    We have far too many planning/water/roads/housing authorities for a population so small.

    They should abolish county everythings and run them as regions based on the current 8 Regional Authorities. Galway has 3 separate planning authorities and 3 plans....which is utterly daft. Yet it has one library authority.

    One head of water, one head of roads , one head of planning and one plan for each Region. Then we may get some cohesiveness.

    I agree and my post alluded to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    If this "rooted in the community" thing did come in it would give those 200 people in that Sligo village more influence than any other agency or self-appointed protector of the environment, surely this is a good thing. It is too easy for ABP to dimiss objections from locals along with the objections of people who want to make things that are none of their business, their business. If the planning permission for that housing estate was granted in 2005 it will run out soon so if this did come in the objections by locals would be taken more seriously if they reapplied.

    Pete the 200 rooted in the community said no - as did An Taisce, Failte Ireland and the heritage counsel it was one of those absured applications for a housing scheme not needed not wanted and had it ever started would now be a NAMA "asset"

    But it was on zoned land - zoned in in an absured LAP that zoned enough land to build houses for 3000 people in a village of 700...It was all part of the insanity going on at the time!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    It would be be very regrettable if An Taisce was removed from the process and they are doing superb work across the nation. There are far too many cases of shoddy planning and developments in the name of "progress" and often pushed through both overtly and covertly by 2 bit developers in cahoots with local councillors.

    At the end of the day are their many real infrastructural of national importance that have been stopped by An Taisce? Not many and the ones that have the planners should have known better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    BrianD wrote: »
    It would be be very regrettable if An Taisce was removed from the process and they are doing superb work across the nation. There are far too many cases of shoddy planning and developments in the name of "progress" and often pushed through both overtly and covertly by 2 bit developers in cahoots with local councillors.

    At the end of the day are their many real infrastructural of national importance that have been stopped by An Taisce? Not many and the ones that have the planners should have known better.

    True and there are plenty of housing estates built and given permission for or sitting their half built which An Taisce objected to and locals too, the councils never listened to anyone in the borrowing boom. Why cosw we have no rates and in house building they saw revenue - the decisions granted to build crap housing estates no one wanted and for which the demographics could not be justified were all based on county councils need for revenue - which they used development for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    westtip wrote: »
    True and there are plenty of housing estates built and given permission for or sitting their half built which An Taisce objected to and locals too, the councils never listened to anyone in the borrowing boom. Why cosw we have no rates and in house building they saw revenue - the decisions granted to build crap housing estates no one wanted and for which the demographics could not be justified were all based on county councils need for revenue - which they used development for.

    In one way I had no problem with this (despite it being appalling planning, of course) - the councils were just saying - "well lads, if ye think there's a market for this stuff, then fire away". Now, in the normal course of events, when there was no market, Mr. Silly Developer would have gone bust.

    But, replicate that over a nation, and, as you say, councils up and down the land with the old lámh out for the development levies, then you know when you've been NAMA'd.


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