To move or not to move?

noreta

REALLY need advice and opinions please....

I am a married mam of one baby. We have a mortgage, are in negative equity, and have debts up to our eyeballs. We are both on social welfare since January. As time goes on things are getting worse for us financially. Like so many others we are sinking fast.

My skills and experience lie in kitchen design. I look online for jobs every day, and i don't particularly stick to looking at kitchen design and sales jobs but it's what i would love. I look at anything i think i may be suitable for. I apply for jobs regularly but nothing ever comes of it.

A few days ago I typed "kitchen designer position" into google and low and behold over 400 positions came up in the UK. On target earnings are £40,000 to £50,000. If I got a job with this pay and hubby got any job at all we would be well able to keep on top of our debts. I really feel like this could work for us.

My questions are: Do ye think this is a good idea first of all?
We would have to rent out our house. I know we would have to register for tax and cancel TRS. Would there be any other complications?
Would other creditors have any problem with this or would we just not say anything?

My plan was to send my wages home to my Irish account and have DDs running from it. Live on hubbys wages.

I can't really think of any reason not to go for it. Hubby is far more cautious.

Any opinions/advice greatly appreciated. This would be the biggest move of our lives.


Thanks in advance...

onemorechance

On target earnings usually means sales so that would put off some people. If you don't think you would be into the sales part then maybe you should look into it more.

noreta

oh I know that. It's kitchen design and sales, they tend to go hand in hand. That part doesn't bother me at all. Retail sales I'm absolutely fine with. I cetainly wouldn't be a field sale person, but in retail people are coming to you looking for something and i tend to actually be quite successful in that because customers tend to like a trust me. I've worked in the same field for years so that side of it isn't an issue.

onemorechance

If you like the sales part then I think you should go for it. It may be no harm to try it out for a while. If there are so many jobs in the UK, you may be lucky enough to have choices on where to go. Do a little research so you may find a nice town. The cost on living in the UK can be cheaper than here, food and rent so with those OTE, you should be much better off. I think it's better to try it than not. Give it 3 months, if ye don't like, ye could be back home by Christmas!

Seems better than being on the social welfare here, can't see your husbands concerns really, cautious about what ? Is he happy both of ye on social welfare. Dunno about this bit though............

My plan was to send my wages home to my Irish account and have DDs running from it. Live on hubbys wages.

.........

Surely all of your money won't be needed over here ? Also is your husband likely to find work that will support ye in the UK ?

noreta

Well i suppose he's concerned because in fairness it's a big move. Away from all our family and friends. To me it's a means to an end. We woudn't be that far away and people could visit any time. He has a big family. It's only me and my ma but i'm willing to do it to save us from further debt problems, and it means taking her only grandchild away from her. It would kill her but i feel we have to do something. Can's just stay here and slowly rot.

We would need to send home about €2500 a month to keep on top of debts with a view to having all but the mortgage cleared in 5 to 6 years. I could send home less but it would drag things out. If he got a full time job we would probably be about as well off as we are at the moment but we would at least be able to pay stuff off which at the moment is impossible. Cost of living is cheaper over there so we would probably have a better quality of life on the same money.

This is how I see it all in my head anyway. I could be talking out my arse!

Try and get a job their first, surely you won't move over 'till you have a job ?

AEG

Go for it now is what I say. It would be better to move now (having first organised a job obviously) and then start making headway into your debts rather than moving in 6 months/1 year when you've further accumulated debts - or even worse being unable to move at that point as you wouldn't be able to pay the costs incurred in a move (deposits on apartments, flights, furniture, moving company fees etc.)

noreta

That's exactly how I feel about it. Why hang about? None of ye can foresee any problems with relocating our family? I know the logistics will be a pain but i think that all would be sorted within a few weeks. we would just have to be organised. Obviously i would have a job well and truly sorted before we would move over. God it's great that i'm having such a positive response.

Welease

noreta wrote: »

That's exactly how I feel about it. Why hang about? None of ye can foresee any problems with relocating our family? I know the logistics will be a pain but i think that all would be sorted within a few weeks. we would just have to be organised. Obviously i would have a job well and truly sorted before we would move over. God it's great that i'm having such a positive response.

Relocating a family is easy enough, especially within the EU.. have done it myself as recently as late 2007..

My advice, would be to start working on getting your documents together for National Insurance numbers, Bank Accounts, Vehicle re-registrations, mobile phones etc. in the UK now while you are looking for a job.

As other have said.. get a job sorted over there, and it might make life easier if you went solo for a couple of months.. Get the job, make sure it's a job you are happy with, then after a couple of months get the family moved across when you have had a couple of pay packets to help with the costs..

Best of luck.. Your prospects in the UK would be much better.. They continue to have a housing shortage over there!

Jim2007

noreta wrote: »

We have a mortgage, are in negative equity, and have debts up to our eyeballs.

One thing you should do is check the terms and conditions of your mortgage, as many banks require you to be resident for a mortgage - renting out the property and being non resident could mean a switch to a commercial loan => higher interest rates.......

Good luck with that,

Jim

boardgirl

I have to say I admire you so much for your courage and determination
At least your willing to fight for what you both worked hard for instead of having a defeatist attitude. I think you should go for it as long as you can secure your job before you go and your husband has a good chance of finding work. Best of luck and let us know how ye get on x

noreta

i've done some research and they can take me off my tracker mortgage. this is as far as i know. i definitely have to de-register for TRS and register for tax. My plan was to do those two things and nothing else. I've been on a forum where a few people have done this and haven't been taken off the tracker at all so i would hope for the best. Yes we will have to pay more against the mortgage but we would still be better off than staying on the dole. Must do more research on this obviously. To be honest we have to make the decision first and then go through all the details with a fine tooth comb. It's a total balls that we can't jsut sell the house. We're about €40000 in negative equity.

Thanks boardgirl! It's a big move but i can't just sit here waiting for the house to eventually be taken from us. Terrible isn't it? I feel hunted from my home by this sh1tty situation. Government should be shot. Did ye see the program about all the money that's been wasted in the country? Would make you vomit.

tatli_lokma

fair play to you for being prepared to move to improve - that takes guts as it is difficult with children and ties here.

But just one thing regards renting your house - being an absentee landlord is not easy. Plus, rents are way down, so you may be renting your house for less than the mortgage payments - will this be manageable?
also, you will need to set aside money regularly for any upkeep/maintenance of the property. Then there is the change in house insurance - you will have to change to landlord insurance, not habitant insurance. Inventories, deposits etc - and they are the easy part. Dealing with a tenant when you are in another country can be very difficult - you have to be lucky and get a decent tenant, and then it is all down to luck. Even experienced landlords can get stung with a rougue tenant.

If you were thinking to use a letting agency - again its not that simple. There are MANY agencies out there who cause more problems than they solve. My personal experience was that I had my agent telling me the tenant hadn't paid rent when in fact she had but he was in debt so pocketed my rent! And he was a 'reputable' agent with good references! I ended up having to go to the small claims court to get my €2k back.

And then, bear in mind, if you are already in debt, if the tenant leaves their lease early, or misses a rent payment, can you cover the mortgage, your rent in the UK and the expense of finding a new tenant? It is a renters market now, not a landlords, and tenants are breaking leases left right and centre, once a better priced or better suited house comes along. They just up and leave, and really, there is very little you can do about it. A lease really isn't much security nowadays. finding a decent tenant at the moment is not easy - it is generally taking most landlords months to rent out a property, and the turnover of tenants is very high compared to a few years ago. Vacant periods are longer and pospective tenants fewer and fewer.

Just some things to consider - everyone thinks it's easy to rent out a house, but actually its not. If you do it yourself, and particularly if you are inexperienced, it can give you many headaches and MANY sleepless nights. If you get an agent, there is still no guarantee, and in my case the agent caused more headaches than anyone. and agent or not, if a tenant leaves and your house is vacant, there is nothing anyone can do about it other than hope someone shows an interest.

I understand your situation - I also moved abroad for a while, and thought sure I'll just rent my house out. But it is never that easy. And if you plan on going before Christmas, then you'd want to start advertising the house for rent now, otherwise you could have a start date due in the UK and no tenant to occupy your house.

Sorry to be so negative, I do hope it works out for you, but you should also be aware of the possible pit falls too. That way you can have a back-up plan and know exactly what you are getting into. Hopefully, forewarned is forarmed and things will go really well for you in the UK. If you can sort out all the house stuff then that is more than half the battle, and you will hopefully have a new start in the UK. you should look on the property forum for advice on renting out the house - lots of knowledgeable people there who can advise you.

Best of luck with everything.

noreta

that's great advice! and don't worry you're not being negative these are the sort of things i need people to say to me. I've been thinking a lot about this side of things because it did dawn on me that there can be complications. No matter which way we tackle it we will have to back up the rent to meet the mortgage and have factored that in, but months at a time would be very difficult especially being absent landlords.
I think i've thought of a solution though, i could lease it to the council for 10 years. we would have to be very sure about the move before we committed to this but it would give huge security. we would get 80% of the going rent rate but there would be no break in payments and we could take all our furniture with us. the council would also maintain the house. Not ideal, perhaps, for our neighbours but we have to think of ourselves and there are already a couple of houses in the estate where this is the case.
what do you think?

Mrs OBumble

Have you factored in the cost of childcare over there? Also the hassle of it given that you'll not have friends/family around.

Also, you've commented about having to register for tax and deregister for TRS. What sort of tax is that you're registering for - would you be self-employed over there rather than an employee? If so you need to investigate what sort of PRSI credits this would get you: if you're self-employed in Ireland you typically go on Class S, which means you're eligible for far less welfare options later on.

Berty

I suggest you contact the likes of In House whom have branches all over the country.

They are always hiring staff. Their high turnover is because people have no follow through and basically no "closing skill". If you can sell then you would get on great there, subject to them having a job for you of course.

Its retail design and sales but they use very high quality products so you would enjoy it.

My OH works for that company for a number of years and is very happy there.

noreta

Hi Justmary
I've investigated childcare costs and they seem cheaper than here. They would be because apparently we have the most expensive childcare on the planet according to The Last Word guy, can't remember his name at the mo. The tax thing a mentioned is something to do with the rent on the house. It's called PRTB, that's all i know, you have to declare it. I have absolutely no intention of being self employed again for the foreseeable!
Yes the fact of having no family around us will be difficult. I have family in London so at least we can drive up there when we like, depending on where we go of course. Thing is though, family don't really mind my son that much. There's only been three occasions where we used their sitting services. My mam can't mind him as she can't lift him, has a bad back. Also we really are homebirds and rather have people over to ours for dinner. It will take a few months but i will eventually find someone i will trust with the baby, for the odd time when we do want to go out on our own. What i have to remember also is that when family come to stay with us it will be proper quality time. I think when you visit someone that's away you appreciate your time with them all the more.
To be honest, even if the family thing was something that would upset me i couldn't let it stop me because it's our family's future that i feel we have to do this for.
The more i think about all this the more i'm leaning towards it. I will really miss home but i'll get over it as long as have my hubby and baby with me. Hubby is still not sure. Says we have us moved over and all in my head. I suppose he's right. I've gone through everything so many times in my head. He feels he needs to talk it out with someone else like his sister or something. I'm going to have to push him for a decision soon as i really don't want to faff about.
Thanks for all replies so far, all very useful advice and lots of different angles to consider!

noreta

HI Berty
When you say closing skills do you mean what i call the hard sell? as in are they required to be quite pushy?

Welease

noreta wrote: »

The more i think about all this the more i'm leaning towards it. I will really miss home but i'll get over it as long as have my hubby and baby with me. Hubby is still not sure. Says we have us moved over and all in my head. I suppose he's right. I've gone through everything so many times in my head. He feels he needs to talk it out with someone else like his sister or something. I'm going to have to push him for a decision soon as i really don't want to faff about.
Thanks for all replies so far, all very useful advice and lots of different angles to consider!

The way we approached it was the agreement that we do an initial 6 months, and if we like it then we extend for another 6 months.. but at each 6 months we would sit down and discuss our options going forward.. You are not signing a contract for life in the UK, you can up and leave at 10 minutes notice if you don't like it. It didnt seem so daunting to my wife (and me) when she knew she could make the call and we would leave if she wanted.

And if you miss home, it costs about 50 quid each and only a couple of hours total to fly home from London.. so it's not difficult to pop home for weekends.

One other piece of advice.. don't forget about the social aspect of your lives if you do move.. people focus too much on their work (and availability of work), and if one partner is at home they can get very isolated. Check out what clubs & societys are available so that you can meet new friends, and the kids (if young) have somewhere to play.. kids clubs are a great way of meeting people.
Schools in the UK are also rated, and this info is available on the web.. So you can also check in advance if the area has decent schooling for your kids (which does effect the price of accomodation for that area).

Best of luck.

Berty

noreta wrote: »

HI Berty
When you say closing skills do you mean what i call the hard sell? as in are they required to be quite pushy?

No not at all. They just need to be able to react when a person says

"I can get something similar in Cash & Carry Kitchens"

They are lucky that they are constantly busy with customers so as long as you can design a good kitchen, sell the idea of buying better quality then you would do well.

I suggest you contact them.

Check their website. Whatever your location is you might find one nearby to try to snuff out a job.

http://www.in-house.ie/home.php

noreta

Yes i must have a look at their site. Looks like we'll be staying here after all folks, hubby has decided he doesn't want to go. I'm going to have to make a deal with him though. I'll give us both 6 months to get jobs and then we'll just have to go and there'll be no choice whatsoever.
Thanks for all your advice folks.

dan_d

Hey noreta.

I'm a late arriver to this thread.

I've been recently made redundant and as my field is civil engineering, I'm trying to look elsewhere for jobs, but there's not much out there. We have a mortgage, and we will be covered for it (as soon as social welfare get the finger out and approve my claim...:mad:), however the subject of emigration is one that has entered our world a lot lately. Negative equity rules around here and while we're okay money-wise at the moment, it's not a good situation.

The OH's job is okay for another few months. So we've decided that at Christmas we'll sit down again and discuss our options. It's the only way to go - if I want to work in my field again, I will only be able to do it outside this country.The way things are right now though, it's leaning more towards "if I want to work again at anything, within the next year, it'll have to be outside this country".I'm just not prepared to spend months of my life sitting on the dole - hence the agreement to review it again at christmas. He's recently said to me he's not sure either though, but it will be reviewed again one way or another.

Maybe you should do something similar? Talk to your OH, see if you can't put an agreement together. At the end of the day, the UK is quite near. There's now a fairly big Irish contingent over there. And, to me, the most important part - it's your life. You only get one of them. Do you really want to spend months and months of it worrying and stressing over jobs and money, when just over the water you'd be able to find something? It's not a life sentence like it used to be - you can come back to visit regularly, and at some point, maybe move back here full time. Ourselves, we are thinking Canada - much further away distance-wise, but it's where we'd like to go. Family and friends would be a massive factor in our decision, but I suppose at the end of the day, we have to make the decision for us, not for them.

Best of luck with whatever you decide and please know that you are by no means the only ones faced with this decision. As my friends say regularly to me "chin up!";)

tatli_lokma

noreta wrote: »

The tax thing a mentioned is something to do with the rent on the house. It's called PRTB, that's all i know, you have to declare it. I have absolutely no intention of being self employed again for the foreseeable!

there is a LOT more to it than just registering with the PRTB. PRTB is not a tax, but a register you must join when you rent out a house. Taxes are a totally seperate thing. There are also levys as this will no longer be your principle private residence. Then on top of all that you will have to register as self employed for the purposes of your tax returns - if you rent to the council then if you will only get 80% of the going rate, you shouldn't have to pay much or any tax, but you will still have to submit your returns etc and this has to be done as a form of self employment. I really think you need to speak to someone and get clear information on the tax implications. Also, if you do not use an agent or appoint a family member to be your agent, then your tenant is supposed to withold some of the rent and pay this to the tax at the end of the year - because you are a non-resident landlord and the tax man wants to be sure he'll get his divvy! It really is much more complex than you seem to be aware of!

as for renting to the council - there are pros and cons. Yes you have the security of the rent being paid, but on the other hand from personal experience the council dont give a Sh!t who they put in your house, so not only may you upset the neighbours, but you may well end up with a house requiring a lot of renovation at the end of the term. Also, I'm not sure wheter the council are responsible for general maintenance and upkeep of the property or you - so you may want to check that out. If its you, and the tenants don't respect your house then not only are you getting 20% less rent, but you are also paying to maintain the house. Even if it is the council, from what I've seen generally the council don't keep on top of things as a 'landlord' would, but only when things are badly damaged, falling apart do they repair things.

I rented to a lady getting HSE allowance for my house, and she was an ideal tenant, so taking SW payments or renting to the council does not mean automatically your house will get wrecked. However, in my estate where I live, the council have taken about 20 houses to rent out - I would say that at least 80% of these houses are badly maintained, some in fact are wrecked and the tenants don't give a flying whatsit about keeping the house nice, and the council don't look after them either. I have heard of one neighbour purposely letting the house fall asunder as she wants to be rehoused closer to her mum! so bear all of that in mind if you go with the council - basically you are signing over any right to decide who lives in your house for the next 10 years.

And 10 years is a LONG time - if it didn't work out and you wanted to come home, could you take the house back, or would you in effect be homeless?

Personally before giving away my house for 10 years I would try to rent privately for at least 6-12 mths, then if I knew I would be staying in the UK, THEN I might rent to the council.

I think the idea of going away for work and a better life is great - but the house complicates things. Please make sure you know all the ins and outs first, as there would be nothing more stressful than being in a new country and worrying about your house and money back home. If your new start is going to work, you need to make sure that you have all the loose ends back here tied up nice and tight. It can work, you just need to be very prepared, very knowledgeable and have a back up plan (and a back up plan for the back up plan! :P)