So in the next budget, would you accept.... ?

Laminations

Flat rate water charges
Raise of lower tax rate to 24%
raise of higher tax rate to 46%

So would this cause the government to collapse?

ronaneire

Think it is going to take a lot more then what you have said to sort out this Country.
Can't see them collapsing anytime soon.

zootroid

ronaneire wrote: »

Think it is going to take a lot more then what you have said to sort out this Country.
Can't see them collapsing anytime soon.

+1

I don't mind paying tax. What I do mind is seeing it pissed up against the wall by the government. So while more taxes are due, the government really needs to examine where it spends money.

liammur

We have to accept our medicine, they were voted in.

Godge

Laminations wrote: »

Flat rate water charges
Raise of lower tax rate to 24%
raise of higher tax rate to 46%

So would this cause the government to collapse?

Won't happen, rates will be left alone. The PRSI regime will be changed to take in more money while tax credits, allowances and shelters will be cut to make sure everyone pays some tax. This brings in more money that increasing the rate.

dan_d

Yes, something like that.

Scrap the levies and charges. Simply raise the tax rates and call them what they are - tax.

Cut social welfare in direct proportion to the amount of time a person has been on it.The longer you're on it, the more vouchers you receive and the less cash.

Cut higher level management in the civil service, across the board.

If the Government even began with those measures, I'd be a bit happy.

But I'm not holding my breath.

changes

Lenihan's attempts to bring people into the tax net will affect every working person in the country also. We'll all be paying more but it will be a bigger relative hit on the low paid.

gurramok

As a PAYE worker, I don't mind if i end up paying 100quid more in direct income tax a month as long as my other big expense called rent is generally affected by way of reducing the Rent Supplement limits in Dublin by a similar amount.
(govt control 50% of the private rental market and the reduction will feed through to me eventually when the lease is up)

This way, that 100quid goes into the govt coffers rather than a private landlords coffers.

the_syco

Laminations wrote: »

Raise of lower tax rate to 24%

Raise it too high, and the dole will give you more.

Cookie_Monster

gurramok wrote: »

As a PAYE worker, I don't mind if i end up paying 100quid more in direct income tax a month as long as my other big expense called rent is generally affected by way of reducing the Rent Supplement limits in Dublin by a similar amount.
(govt control 50% of the private rental market and the reduction will feed through to me eventually when the lease is up)

This way, that 100quid goes into the govt coffers rather than a private landlords coffers.

I hope this happens but fear there are far to many vested interests for it to be touched

Tipp Man

Well come hell or high water I think it is guaranteed that i will be a poorer person in January 2011 than i am today. It is without doubt that i will be paying more tax

I wouldn't mind paying the extra tax if i thought that the majority of it wasn't going to be wasted. but it will be

Its amazing that public servants can retire at 55 while i'll have to work to 65 (or 70 by the time it comes around) to pay for the public servants pension for those 10-15 years, unbelievable

Pharaoh1

Not expressing an opinion here as it won't affect me either way but can anyone seriously see a situation where someone who is (lets say genuinely) unemployed sees their 196 euro JB/JA cut by 5% or 10% while their 50k earning public sector employed neighbour sees no cut in gross pay (and maybe even an incremental increase over the year)?

From the government point of view and keeping in mind the mantra of "those that can afford to pay most should pay etc.." the last budget at least saw both groups experience some cuts.

I know the point could be made that income tax and social contribution hikes could balance a social welfare cut but you would need a fairly massive increase in the lower (or indeed higher) PAYE rate to effect even a 5% reduction in take home pay. It would be the equivalent of a new 5% income levy on top of all the other levies.
I just can't see a headline saying "Blind and Carers lose 5% but Biffo's salary untouched".
Surely there is no way that this would pass or would it?
Opinions?

Liam Byrne

Laminations wrote: »

Flat rate water charges
Raise of lower tax rate to 24%
raise of higher tax rate to 46%

So would this cause the government to collapse?

To answer your question : No.

Not until they stop pissing it away on Anglo & NAMA.

Mind you, the damage there is already done; if they hadn't pissed it away on those they might not need to hammer us with extra taxes.

Chris_5339762

I oppose water charges as I have a well and pump my own water. Why should I pay the government for that? Sure, if it was being provided through the pipes and the city water supply, thats fine. But not your own well.

Denerick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

To answer your question : No.

Not until they stop pissing it away on Anglo & NAMA.

Mind you, the damage there is already done; if they hadn't pissed it away on those they might not need to hammer us with extra taxes.

Ah, so your solution is to have no banking system or an economy? Might as well reduce taxes to 0% then, if we had it your way Ireland would be back in the stone age.

I'm sick and tired of this partisanship. Its senseless and annoying.

RichardAnd

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I oppose water charges as I have a well and pump my own water. Why should I pay the government for that? Sure, if it was being provided through the pipes and the city water supply, thats fine. But not your own well.

You'd hardly be charged for using your own well, would you?

blue_steel

Tipp Man wrote: »

Its amazing that public servants can retire at 55 while i'll have to work to 65 (or 70 by the time it comes around) to pay for the public servants pension for those 10-15 years, unbelievable

Stop talking crap. The public sector retirement age is 65.

irishh_bob

blue_steel wrote: »

Stop talking crap. The public sector retirement age is 65.

guards not included

blue_steel

irishh_bob wrote: »

guards not included

Who make up the grand total of 4% of public sector workers.

zielarz

Laminations wrote: »

Flat rate water charges
Raise of lower tax rate to 24%
raise of higher tax rate to 46%

So would this cause the government to collapse?

Can we do anything about it? Under this system everything is possible, they can increase the bands even to 100%. No law is preventing them from doing it.

Diarmuid

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I oppose water charges as I have a well and pump my own water. Why should I pay the government for that? Sure, if it was being provided through the pipes and the city water supply, thats fine. But not your own well.

I don't think you understand how water charges work.

Stinicker

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't think you understand how water charges work.

Water charges don't work they penalise people for something that is paid for by general taxation. We cannot do without it and it simply a public health and welfare issue that water be provided. This is Ireland a country where there is no shortage of water, my friend in Las Vegas pays less for his water in the heart of the Mojave Desert than I am projected to if this comes in.

Get rid of the Government, Cut taxes, cut public spending and cull half the drones in the public sector. Get people back to work and encourage enterprise. Bring the people responsible for the crisis to justice and think up new ways to get us back on track. Iceland suffered meltdown, the first thing they did was f*ck the traitors in office out by public resistance and civil disobedience and revolt outside the Icelandic parliament.

They have prosecuted the goons in charge who caused the meltdown and have targeted their economy to bring in money and are getting back on track, in Ireland things goes from bad to worse. Iceland is now the best value tourist destination in the world having surpassed Thailand. They are also focusing on becoming a freedom of the press hub, in which Thailand will become the Switzerland of the world for freedom of the media and not money laundering similar to the swiss niche market.

We can talk about solutions and resolutions all we want however the first step is to remove the Government by any means necessary. If this means civil unrest or just ordinary protests then so be it, our childrens children will thank us for it. However will this generation of people be the generation who bent over with vaseline and took tax hikes and welfare cuts?? All the time thinking, f*ck everyone else I still clear €300/week! Just cut the dole and make them lazy f*ckers slave for free, its all me me me.

Sorry for cursing but this I how I feel and as someone who is out of work coming into my third year, I do not want to be on the dole, I want opportunity and a chance to retrain and upskill, yet their is nothing.

No. 1 Kick this Government out.

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

Ah, so your solution is to have no banking system or an economy? Might as well reduce taxes to 0% then, if we had it your way Ireland would be back in the stone age.

Typical misrepresentation.

My solution is to have a sustainable economy, not one built on a house of cards or one where the public have to insure those who agreed to take risks against their own bad judgement.

Denerick wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of this partisanship. Its senseless and annoying.

I'm sick and tired of our money being flushed down the toilet. It's senseless and annoying.

If you don't want the Government to be held accountable for their choices and astronomically expensive failures, then fair enough; I - and others - do.

kevteljeur

Stinicker wrote: »

Water charges don't work they penalise people for something that is paid for by general taxation. We cannot do without it and it simply a public health and welfare issue that water be provided. This is Ireland a country where there is no shortage of water, my friend in Las Vegas pays less for his water in the heart of the Mojave Desert than I am projected to if this comes in.

Get rid of the Government, Cut taxes, cut public spending and cull half the drones in the public sector. Get people back to work and encourage enterprise. Bring the people responsible for the crisis to justice and think up new ways to get us back on track. Iceland suffered meltdown, the first thing they did was f*ck the traitors in office out by public resistance and civil disobedience and revolt outside the Icelandic parliament.

They have prosecuted the goons in charge who caused the meltdown and have targeted their economy to bring in money and are getting back on track, in Ireland things goes from bad to worse. Iceland is now the best value tourist destination in the world having surpassed Thailand. They are also focusing on becoming a freedom of the press hub, in which Thailand will become the Switzerland of the world for freedom of the media and not money laundering similar to the swiss niche market.

We can talk about solutions and resolutions all we want however the first step is to remove the Government by any means necessary. If this means civil unrest or just ordinary protests then so be it, our childrens children will thank us for it. However will this generation of people be the generation who bent over with vaseline and took tax hikes and welfare cuts?? All the time thinking, f*ck everyone else I still clear €300/week! Just cut the dole and make them lazy f*ckers slave for free, its all me me me.

Sorry for cursing but this I how I feel and as someone who is out of work coming into my third year, I do not want to be on the dole, I want opportunity and a chance to retrain and upskill, yet their is nothing.

No. 1 Kick this Government out.

Once we get them out, we could start having elections every 5 years where everyone could vote to choose new leaders, if we weren't happy with the current ones.



k

WalterMitty

blue_steel wrote: »

Who make up the grand total of 4% of public sector workers.

Plus fire fighters and other public servants . Many civil servants take early retirement and "buy" extra pension years which are a absolute steal(of taxpayers money)

Chris_5339762

RichardAnd wrote: »

You'd hardly be charged for using your own well, would you?

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't think you understand how water charges work.

Maybe not but my understanding of this is that water meters were going to go in every house unilaterally, without caring about whether you use your own well or not.

McDougal

irishh_bob wrote: »

guards not included

A 64 year old guard probably wouldn't be able to keep up a chase with an 18 year old shoplifter

Head The Wall

McDougal wrote: »

A 64 year old guard probably wouldn't be able to keep up a chase with an 18 year old shoplifter

So what, thats a great reason indeed to retire tham at 50 and pay their pension until they die. A lot of retired guards actually go into the security business as well.

Such idiotic nonsense

Denerick

Head The Wall wrote: »

So what, thats a great reason indeed to retire tham at 50 and pay their pension until they die. A lot of retired guards actually go into the security business as well.

Such idiotic nonsense

Actually there is a very reasonable case to be made that Guards have a natural retirement age wherein they are no longer fit for active duty due to the mental and physcial restraints placed upon them by age. It is one of the perks of a thankless job.

Besides, would you want a load of 60 year olds chewing up vital resources just to make a silly point? its much more effective to let them go in their mid 50s and so bring in new blood.

Head The Wall

I don't have a problem with them retiring at a certain age. It's the fact they they can spend 30 years contributing very little to their pension and retire on a full pension which they can collect until they die be that 20, 30 , 40 or 50 years worth. We are paying for that pension not them and they don't work that much harder than other people in the workforce.

There are still people farming, roofing etc at 60 years and older and most guards just go onto other jobs when they retire at 50 so it's not like they are disabled and have a zimmer frame at that stage

WalterMitty

McDougal wrote: »

A 64 year old guard probably wouldn't be able to keep up a chase with an 18 year old shoplifter

Older guards could man the station, fill out reports, do community and juvenille liason, do security at GAA matches(thats a tough gig alright) and concerts, Drive patrol cars having younger gardai along side them,do traffic duties,tourist stuff etc.
Older guards are usually more experienced in dealing with people and more diplomatic and respected. Very little gardai time is spent chasing 18 yr olds on foot. Watching a lot of reality cop shows on tv the younger guys here in uk and USA arent that fit anyway and always seem to lose the young fast guy and have to chase him in car.
theres no reason why a cop in late 50s and early 60s cant keep fit and healthy now a days with modern scientific methods of training self defence ,protection vests etc.

Colonel Sanders

My marginal rate of tax (including PRSI,levies etc) is already 54%. I definitely think the amount of tax I pay will increase.

Am I OK with that?

I won't like it if it is used to pay over generous rates of Public sector pay and welfare. I won't be happy if huge numbers of workers continue to have a marginal rate of 0%. I won't be happy if my diminished net income is handicapped by having to pay increased public service charges and services who's price is in the control of the government

I would happily pay for job creation, efficient public services etc

Guess which of these 2 outcomes I feel is most likely :mad:

changes

70 billion for anglo? i'm not happy to accept any more pain in the budget if thats the case.

Do they know something we don't.... it was 20 billion, then 40 now 70. Why put us through misery for a mere 2 or 3 billion.