tempo pace / intervals pace for 10km

ManFromAtlantis

would appreciate any help/comments on my training plan.
i am at the point where i am nearing 43 mins for a 10km and this is my goal ie sub 43. btw my pb for 5km is 20:30

current training:
mon: rest
tues: intervals 6 x 1km, 2 min walk rest, pace 4:05 /km
wed: handy 6 miles 8:10 / mile
thur: 6 miles steady state run at 7:20 /mile
fri: rest
sat: 7 - 10 miles @ about 8 min/mile
sun: tempo 6 miles total 3 at tempo 7:05 /mile

to me it seems fairly balanced ? but wonder about pace. or any other comments.
thanks.

BeepBeep67

Probably doing them a little quick - but depends on when you set your PB's.
1k intervals normally around 5k pace + 10 secs per interval and tempo 10M to HM pace.
Are you completing the intervals even paced - same question regarding the tempo - do you feel strong at the end of it, like you could do another mile or so?

gerard65

Checked your VDOT and interval/tempo paces in 'Danials Running Formula' and your bang on. Your training plan looks good, well balanced, but is Sats long run a bit quick?

Krusty_Clown

gerard65 wrote: »

Your training plan looks good, well balanced, but is Sats long run a bit quick?

I wouldn't have thought so. If steady state run is 7:20/mile, then a long run at 8 min/mile is almost recovery pace (and it's not a very long run).

Not an expert, but I found that a lot of my progression in 10k times came from running shorter intervals at faster pace, e.g.: 400m - 800m, to get the leg turnover. Very little of your running seems to be significantly quicker than your target pace.

kennyb3

3 questions:

1. You just startting the program or how long have you been running it? Are you close or far away from target race?

2. When was the 5k pb set and where do you feel you are in relation to it now? Are you close to running it tomorrow?

3. Have you done the 6*1km's yet?


Reason I ask 2 and 3 in particular are this:

- If you are near 20.30 for 5k, 43 mins should be easy if you get your endurance right. Id be making sat a min of 10miles and pushing to 12 - 13miles. You could knock a mile off sunday.

- If you can do 6*1km at 4.05, 43 should be a piece of p'iss really.

kennyb3

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not an expert, but I found that a lot of my progression in 10k times came from running shorter intervals at faster pace, e.g.: 400m - 800m, to get the leg turnover. Very little of your running seems to be significantly quicker than your target pace.

+1, there is always arguement on what lenght intervals to do around here but I found personally my 10k time shrunk quickly after some 400's. 8*400m is a much more managebale session than 6*1k also.

Some strides one/two of the days might help also.

tunguska

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought so. If steady state run is 7:20/mile, then a long run at 8 min/mile is almost recovery pace (and it's not a very long run).

Not an expert, but I found that a lot of my progression in 10k times came from running shorter intervals at faster pace, e.g.: 400m - 800m, to get the leg turnover. Very little of your running seems to be significantly quicker than your target pace.

+1. Check out "Daniels running formula." He has an entire chapter dedicated to a 10k race plan. Follow it to the letter and youre guaranteed a great time. Also would make the long run longer and knock out some quick 400s and 800s. Interval training seems to be the best for 10ks.

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

+1, there is always arguement on what lenght intervals to do around here but I found personally my 10k time shrunk quickly after some 400's. 8*400m is a much more managebale session than 6*1k also.

Some strides one/two of the days might help also.

I would be more inclined to turn the steady state run into a second interval session and keep the longer one as is.

For me i feel the best way to improve on 10k specific work is

1 session @ 10k pace (1ks or 2ks)
1 session @ 5k pace (maybe 400s or 800s)
and a tempo
add in your two days easy running and long run and you are all set to go

However this is personal opinion as kennyB pointed out few things you have to factor in is 1) how long you been training like that and have you improved?

Also have your performances stalled? if not i say keep going the way you are going

kennyb3

ecoli wrote: »

I would be more inclined to turn the steady state run into a second interval session and keep the longer one as is.

For me i feel the best way to improve on 10k specific work is

1 session @ 10k pace (1ks or 2ks)
1 session @ 5k pace (maybe 400s or 800s)
and a tempo
add in your two days easy running and long run and you are all set to go

However this is personal opinion as kennyB pointed out few things you have to factor in is 1) how long you been training like that and have you improved?

Also have your performances stalled? if not i say keep going the way you are going

Only problem i see with the above is that 2 intervals, one tempo a long one = injury for a lot of runners. But like you say it all depends on history and background.

shels4ever

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought so. If steady state run is 7:20/mile, then a long run at 8 min/mile is almost recovery pace (and it's not a very long run).

Not an expert, but I found that a lot of my progression in 10k times came from running shorter intervals at faster pace, e.g.: 400m - 800m, to get the leg turnover. Very little of your running seems to be significantly quicker than your target pace.

Yep I'd agree with that but depends when the target race is, I think in one of Tergats post a while ago the race phase was only 3-4 week long so it was longer reps until just before your race phase and then the 400's were done.

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

Only problem i see with the above is that 2 intervals, one tempo a long one = injury for a lot of runners. But like you say it all depends on history and background.

I think one of the big things here is that people dont run the intervals at the controlled and correct paces. Many people when the think short intervals need to be hard and long slow. people need to keep these very controlled but i do get your point

ManFromAtlantis

thanks for the replys. and i appreciate that you would need full background history ets and each training plan is particular to a particular person but none teh less the above is informative.

to be honest its my first time to follow any structured training plan. normally i would just go out and run, albeit consistently for the last couple of years, at say about 85- 90% effort (i know shame on me not very scientific)

my 20:30 pb 5km is in last month. i've followed teh above plan for 3 weeks now. (before this as i say teh runs were all practically med/hard hard effort.

i do have a tendency to tail off at end of races but alot of this has to do with starting off too fast . have to control that.

i suppose ultimately, i have at teh back of my mind a sub 40. a while back this was unimaginable and while still a million miles away its not something i shouldnt try and give a bash at at lest. almost a vet now (boo) but getting faster:)) !!
thks

kennyb3

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

my 20:30 pb 5km is in last month. i've followed teh above plan for 3 weeks now. (before this as i say teh runs were all practically med/hard hard effort.

Sub 42 at least the next time you run a 10k!!, just get that long run up a bit. 7 or 8 miles defo aint enough

ecoli

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

i do have a tendency to tail off at end of races but alot of this has to do with starting off too fast . have to control that.

While it may have to do with going out too hard it could also be down to strength which is where the tempo and the long runs are important and particular attention should be paid.
The fact that you are only starting on a structured plan i wouldnt change it (bar the pacing queries which people have made) and you will no doubt see improvement

asimonov

Maybe have a quick think about the structure of your week. I don't think hard sessions on saturday, sunday and tuesday are optimal in terms of recovery or being in the right condition to do the workouts to the best of your ability. It might be better to have a rest day or easy run between your long run and your tempo. And as per ecoli - drop your steady state / marathon pace run for easy + strides.

Also, i think you can't do the same workouts week-in week-out, your body will get used to them - keep the structure but change the specifics of the session in terms of the length and pace of interval and recovery time.

menoscemo

I have a 10k PB of 42:07 and 5k of 20:14 (both from this spring/summer) so we are pretty similar .

My first impression is that you are running your 'steady' and 'easy' runs way too fast. 6 @ 7:20 pace would be an LT (or tempo) pace for me, not a steady run. Easy or recovery would be 8:40 + pace. (so a 'handy' 6 @8:10 pace is neither here nor there).
You have to allow yourself to recover from key seeions then run the key sessions really hard. When I was training for 10k-HM during the spring, I would typically do 3 key session: one Intervals (VO2 Max), one Tempo or LT Run and a long run. The other two runs would be recovery runs at 8:40- 9:30 pace.

ManFromAtlantis

well the structured training is clearly paying off. did a certified measured 5km race last night in just under 20 mins.
was hoping for 20:30 at best so over teh moon.

oh yeah teh splits were 3:49 4:10 (bit of a hill) 3:59 4:00 4:00 so v happy with the splits too esp teh last 3.

kennyb3

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

well the structured training is clearly paying off. did a certified measured 5km race last night in just under 20 mins.
was hoping for 20:30 at best so over teh moon.

oh yeah teh splits were 3:49 4:10 (bit of a hill) 3:59 4:00 4:00 so v happy with the splits too esp teh last 3.

Good stuff, and just remember you ll progress more and more as you put in more and more weeks of structured training.

with sub 20 now, you defo have to be aiming for sub 42 10k

ger664

Your training plan looks good. For the problem with tailing off in your races hill reps are great for building stamina.