Refund question

almat1981

I'm going to guns n roses tonight and have been having a discussion in work about readding festival. For those of you who don't know g'n'r showed up 2 hours late and had to stop after less then an hour.

My question is if this happened in the o2 tonight would you. Be entitled to a refund? Most people are saying no but I don't see why not you paid for 3 hours of music and the band were fined by the organisers?


Any options

rubadub

I doubt you would get a refund, I very much doubt your tickets says they will play 3 hours, or any stated times. These tickets had loads of T&Cs and usually cover themselves.

If they do not turn up at all you can get a refund, even if support shows. I got refunds on no show headliners. I also got a refund when a support act cancelled before the gig happened, in that case they got to resell my ticket, if I went and a support act did not turn up I am not sure what would happen. It also is a bit vague if it is an "important" support act -i.e. are they viewed as a double headliner.

In my case I think velvet revolver pulled out of supporting the who, I still did go but I got a refund and bought tickets at the boxoffice and saved €6.50

dudara

almat1981 wrote: »

you paid for 3 hours of music and the band were fined by the organisers?

Does it say 3 hours of music on the ticket? What you've paid for is a concert Guns'n'Roses - not a fixed amount of music.

However, there is a certain expectation that you should get a reasonable amount of music for your hard-earned cash. So therefore, if the band only plays for a short period, then I would definitely be complaining.

In my recent experience, most bands tend to play for about 1.5 hours.

almat1981

My appolgies I agree most bands only play for an hour and a half. But in reading they were scheduled for 3 hours closing set of a festival and only played for an hour.
What my argument is is if I show up tonight wait for 2 hours then they show up play for a few min and leave would I be within my right to expect a refund? After all tickets were more than €70

almat1981

Ok so my theoretical question has become a reality they played 2 songs then left the stage we then got were having tecinacal difficulties. Then please leave the consert is over it was not even 11o'clock at this stage and they were 1 hour late . What are my rights ?

dudara

almat1981 wrote: »

Ok so my theoretical question has become a reality they played 2 songs then left the stage we then got were having tecinacal difficulties. Then please leave the consert is over it was not even 11o'clock at this stage and they were 1 hour late . What are my rights ?

When I read the news this morning, I immediately thought of your question.

I think that you should contact the concert promoters.

UrbanSea

I thought of it too. How ironic is it that you ask the question and it happens.

almat1981

Yep told the gf that last night and she nearly took my head off. Talk about tempting fate . If only I could do that with lotto numbers or the 3:10 at Epson I'd be laughing . Don't reckon we will get a refund as they came back on thus they can say the played the gig abet a bit late.

jor el

Just heard on the news that MCD have issued a statement that no refunds will be given since anyone that left the concert did so of their own accord, and G&R did play a full set.

JimsAlterEgo

would I claim against TM or MCD in the small claims court?
My basis
Staff in the venue told me concert was over and we would be refunded
Lights went on - this signifies end of show to me
Band said they were finished
Typical finish time for 02 is 11.00 - no announcment this was not the case

dudara

jor el wrote: »

Just heard on the news that MCD have issued a statement that no refunds will be given since anyone that left the concert did so of their own accord, and G&R did play a full set.

Personally, I'd still argue that one. They can say that, but staff in the o2 did turn on the lights, signalling the end of the concert. This was in addition to the fact that the performers had left the stage. I think that there are reasonable grounds here to push for a refund.

JimsAlterEgo

dudara wrote: »

Personally, I'd still argue that one. They can say that, but staff in the o2 did turn on the lights, signalling the end of the concert. This was in addition to the fact that the performers had left the stage. I think that there are reasonable grounds here to push for a refund.

exactly and staff actually told people their would be refunds and that they were told the concert was over. This is not going to die.

LuvSpudz

Well here's my claim sent to mcd via the contact us feedback form on their website:

Re: Guns N Roses Concert in O2 Arena on 01/09/2010
Due to the well documented problems with the concert I expect a full refund of the tickets I bought. I was told by members of staff when the lights came on after Axl had left the stage that the concert was over and to vacate the premises, and did so. I understand that Axl came back on stage afterwards according to the news reports. This is irrelevant as I was told by the staff that the show was over and to leave.
I expect a full refund of the three tickets which I purchased and will file this with the small claims court if necessary.

Let's see what happens. I'm a like a dog with a bone when this kind of thing happens and will not let it lie. Fully intend to go the distance.

OP jinxed the concert.

Back on topic - i would hound them to get my money back.

almat1981

i am also mailing mcd looking for a refund. altough i don't think it's there fault they are the ones we paid so they are the ones we ask for a refund they then should seek to recoupe the money from the band. i'm sure they have a fine system built into the contract for time played so proably already have to play the band a substancialy reduced rate.

i'm more annoyed with the responce of people. there is far to much it's guns n roses what did you expect. i paid to see a band play , i expected to see a band play for a standare time even an hour and i would have been happy not 20min.

People are doing the typical irish thing of complainineg to each other but doing nothing about it We should not take tis lyeing down . there are enough people who in court can say that they were told the concert was over by official members of staff. We were actually told to leave by security, proably because we mooved to the back of the arena when they left the stage.

i'm ashamed that anyone who went to that gig would dare to try to explain the antics of axl rose, i feel sorry for the rest of the band as they apparently tried realy hard to win the crowd back around. but we paid to see axl.

almat1981

i have one more thing to add the reason that people who went to barbra strisend got a refund is they kicked up a stink, called into joe duffy all day , contacted courts ect. witch is what we need to do.

the groutch

it would take an American-style class action suit to have a realistic chance of getting refunds, but that sort of thing just isnt done over here

91011

How about suing the eejits who kept throw bottles onto the stage?

Surely this was the cause of the disruption and therefore is where anger should be directed.

LuvSpudz

the groutch wrote: »

it would take an American-style class action suit to have a realistic chance of getting refunds, but that sort of thing just isnt done over here

I have to disagree with this statement. Take it to small claims court. It costs nothing apart from your time filling out a form. The company will want to avoid having to send a representative as that would cost more than the value of the tickets for each individual case, and if they can see that you have a clear reason for leaving, i.e. they told you to as the concert was over, then there is no reason why it should go much further.


Do not let this go, I'm certainly not going to.

91011 wrote: »

How about suing the eejits who kept throw bottles onto the stage?



Surely this was the cause of the disruption and therefore is where anger should be directed.

While the bottle throwing was an action I certainly do not agree with, the fact remains that it occurred due to the bad feelings created by the band's late arrival on stage.

I don't condone the bottle throwing, but the start of the whole situation was the band arriving late, and the way axl attempted to handle the crowd. If he had apologised or even acknowledged that we were waiting for a long time but we were going to get a good show to make up for it then it would have diffused the whole situation.

almat1981

91011 wrote: »

How about suing the eejits who kept throw bottles onto the stage?

Surely this was the cause of the disruption and therefore is where anger should be directed.

Altough I disagree with anyone trowing anything at the stage. It is a matter for security to sort out . If you got up on somones sholders you would be pulled down and kicked out on health and safety grounds . Why can't they have found the and kicked them out. And security is the responsiblty of the prmoter. If there was insufficient security to keep the band safe it is the fault of mcd.

jor el

almat1981 wrote: »

i am also mailing mcd looking for a refund.

Since both MCD and The O2 Management have said there will be no refunds issued, this will likely not get you anywhere. You should do it anyway, but rather than an email, send a letter by registered post. Set a time frame for a response (10 working days maybe), and if no response is received, or it's unsatisfactory, then use the Small Claims Court to request your refund.

The court is probably the only chance you have of a refund, since there's really no way the promoter is going to willingly refund your money.

LuvSpudz

jor el wrote: »

Since both MCD and The O2 Management have said there will be no refunds issued, this will likely not get you anywhere. You should do it anyway, but rather than an email, send a letter by registered post. Set a time frame for a response (10 working days maybe), and if no response is received, or it's unsatisfactory, then use the Small Claims Court to request your refund.

The court is probably the only chance you have of a refund, since there's really no way the promoter is going to willingly refund your money.

I agree, but I was told by the staff to go to the website and do it this way, so I'm following the advice given by the staff employed at O2. Following their procedures as directed by their staff.

I do like the registered post idea, will certainly be doing that as the next step. I would ask others to follow the same procedure, if we act as a unit then it will produce more of a result.

I have had similar situations with other such companies and have gotten a refund, people in this country don't complain enough and understand their rights. In my opinion it's an open and shut case, axl said "goodnight, that's it" the lights came on fully about 15 minutes later, half the place evacuated on the advice from the staff (are they mcd or O2 staff by the way?), and then after people had left, under advice from staff, who also advised how to claim a refund, Axl changed his mind and came back on.

I see no reason why those who left should not be refunded after this from a legal standpoint. If the staff were incorrect that is up to mcd/O2 to retrain their staff on procedure, but they have to take the hit regardless of if it was procedure or not, as that is how their staff advised us all when asked.

Caught

The thing about this is though, that some of the crowd left. If they refund one of you, whats to stop everyone that has a ticket from the concert [regardless of whether or not they left] from asking for a refund? They could go on the basis of your story and claim they too had left the premises, and were refused entry once Axl had returned.

Sure nuff, not everyone will do this. There are some good people out there who may not want to chance their arm, or may simply feel bad if they got the refund. But others wouldn't. It is a recession ya know... :L

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted. Hope you get your refund, and I hope you're onto Joe bout this once he gets back from his holidays!

HxGH

almat1981 wrote: »

My question is if this happened in the o2 tonight would you. Be entitled to a refund?

Well you should get your money back.. Simply cuz your psychic.

LuvSpudz

Caught wrote: »

The thing about this is though, that some of the crowd left. If they refund one of you, whats to stop everyone that has a ticket from the concert [regardless of whether or not they left] from asking for a refund? They could go on the basis of your story and claim they too had left the premises, and were refused entry once Axl had returned.

That they could, and frankly that's the way it should be. No-one got a fair deal at the concert whether they stayed or not. From what I hear Axl just churned out the songs afterwards with no stagemanship whatsoever, although the band tried their best to get things back on track the passion was gone from both the singer and the fans.

People can say all they want that it's to be expected from Axl, but if he had diffused the situation at the start with a simple sentence or two to get the crowd on his side then all would probably have been forgiven and avoided.

Anyways going to mail them once more tomorrow as they advised me, then go down the registered letter route, followed by claims court. Will keep this updated. Death or glory!

LuvSpudz

Okay update on my situation.

I'm sick with a flu or something so I'm a day late, but I used their feedback form one last time, next step registered letter.

Here's message number 2

Re: Guns N Roses Concert in O2 Arena on 01/09/2010
This is my second attempt to contact someone in MCD regarding this matter. I expect a full refund of the three seated tickets I purchased for the Guns and Roses concert. As I stated in my last correspondence dated 02/09/2010(see below) I agree that Axl did come back on stage and fulfill his contractual requirements. However, as stated previously, when the full lights came on in the establishment I asked staff what was happening and they told me that the show was over and to leave. As a result of this guidance I left and therefore missed the show.
The blame for this particular situation rests on the employees of the O2 arena, who also advised me to get in touch with MCD through this method to obtain a refund. If they need retraining on procedure that is up to the company hiring them but I should not have to take the financial hit for following their instructions.
I paid good money for this concert and I expect a reply within three days or I will take this matter further until it is resolved.

Previous message dated 02/09/2010:
Due to the well documented problems with the concert I expect a full refund of the tickets I bought. I was told by members of staff when the lights came on after Axl had left the stage that the concert was over and to vacate the premises, and did so. I understand that Axl came back on stage afterwards according to the news reports. This is irrelevant as I was told by the staff that the show was over and to leave.
I expect a full refund of the three tickets which I purchased and will file this with the small claims court if necessary.

JimsAlterEgo

why would you claim from MCD and not ticketmaster? Surely when you pay TM the contract is with them

91011

LuvSpudz wrote: »

Okay update on my situation.

I'm sick with a flu or something so I'm a day late, but I used their feedback form one last time, next step registered letter.

Here's message number 2

Re: Guns N Roses Concert in O2 Arena on 01/09/2010
This is my second attempt to contact someone in MCD regarding this matter. I expect a full refund of the three seated tickets I purchased for the Guns and Roses concert. As I stated in my last correspondence dated 02/09/2010(see below) I agree that Axl did come back on stage and fulfill his contractual requirements. However, as stated previously, when the full lights came on in the establishment I asked staff what was happening and they told me that the show was over and to leave. As a result of this guidance I left and therefore missed the show.
The blame for this particular situation rests on the employees of the O2 arena, who also advised me to get in touch with MCD through this method to obtain a refund. If they need retraining on procedure that is up to the company hiring them but I should not have to take the financial hit for following their instructions.
I paid good money for this concert and I expect a reply within three days or I will take this matter further until it is resolved.

Previous message dated 02/09/2010:
Due to the well documented problems with the concert I expect a full refund of the tickets I bought. I was told by members of staff when the lights came on after Axl had left the stage that the concert was over and to vacate the premises, and did so. I understand that Axl came back on stage afterwards according to the news reports. This is irrelevant as I was told by the staff that the show was over and to leave.
I expect a full refund of the three tickets which I purchased and will file this with the small claims court if necessary.

Your problem is you are making too many assumptions and not giving any concrete evidence. I doubt if mcd are taking you seriously as if the above is your case, it is highly unlikely that any court would find in your favour especially if you take a case against MCD.

Your attitude also does not help "I expect a refund" "I expect a reply in 3 days" "I expect a full refund for 3 tickets". That's a load of bollox and will ensure your rant is filed under B.I.N.

Can you prove that 02 staff members told you the concert was over? Did they get instruction from MCD?

Can you prove that you left at the time you said?

Why not sue guns and roses themselves? (whopos - can't do they played the concert albeit with strop) Why not sue the people who threw the bottles on the stage? (whoops - they can't bew identified) Why not sue the O2 arena ? - Your only real possibility and you would need to have proof that the staff told you the concert was over.

Sorry, but MCD did not tell you the concert was over and as you have agreed the concert was played in full. From a legal point of view you have absolutely zero chance against MCD.

JimsAlterEgo

91011 wrote: »

Your problem is you are making too many assumptions and not giving any concrete evidence. I doubt if mcd are taking you seriously as if the above is your case, it is highly unlikely that any court would find in your favour especially if you take a case against MCD.

Your attitude also does not help "I expect a refund" "I expect a reply in 3 days" "I expect a full refund for 3 tickets". That's a load of bollox and will ensure your rant is filed under B.I.N.

Can you prove that 02 staff members told you the concert was over? Did they get instruction from MCD?

Can you prove that you left at the time you said?

Why not sue guns and roses themselves? (whopos - can't do they played the concert albeit with strop) Why not sue the people who threw the bottles on the stage? (whoops - they can't bew identified) Why not sue the O2 arena ? - Your only real possibility and you would need to have proof that the staff told you the concert was over.

Sorry, but MCD did not tell you the concert was over and as you have agreed the concert was played in full. From a legal point of view you have
absolutely zero chance against MCD.

wow - very helpful
I have heard people saying thery have videos of o2 staff telling them to leave. The courts will assume people are telling the truth and not perjure
themselves. If you travelled by bus or Luas you may have a ticket with the time you left at.

MCD may not have said it but o2 staff did and as far as I am concerned they are their agents in the venue. Also house lights went on.

91011

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

wow - very helpful
I have heard people saying thery have videos of o2 staff telling them to leave. The courts will assume people are telling the truth and not perjure
themselves. If you travelled by bus or Luas you may have a ticket with the time you left at.

MCD may not have said it but o2 staff did and as far as I am concerned they are their agents in the venue. Also house lights went on.

No, the staff of the O2 are not agents of MCD and do not represent MCD. MCD pay O2 arena a price that includes staffing.

Your gripe is with O2 staff & O2 arena. MCD & guns n roses fulfilled their obligations from a legal point of view, it would not be possible for a court to rule against MCD.

If you go the O2 Arena route, you would have a better chance. - You could get cctv evidence of an amount of people leaving the venue.

LuvSpudz

91011 wrote: »

Your problem is you are making too many assumptions and not giving any concrete evidence. I doubt if mcd are taking you seriously as if the above is your case, it is highly unlikely that any court would find in your favour especially if you take a case against MCD.

Your attitude also does not help "I expect a refund" "I expect a reply in 3 days" "I expect a full refund for 3 tickets". That's a load of bollox and will ensure your rant is filed under B.I.N.

My attitude I think is warranted given the situation. If you don't believe so then fair enough.

91011 wrote: »

Can you prove that 02 staff members told you the concert was over? Did they get instruction from MCD?

When the lights come up fully in an arena that means the concert is over, correct?
Then check this out if you wish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnLFClHY-MA

Lights off and waiting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55wzDzstEdQ

Lights on 15 minutes after dennis desmond came on stage.

91011 wrote: »

Can you prove that you left at the time you said?

No, because at the time I left I was told I would get a refund and that the show was over, so I thought that MCD would be honouring what the O2 staff told us.

91011 wrote: »

Why not sue guns and roses themselves? (whopos - can't do they played the concert albeit with strop) Why not sue the people who threw the bottles on the stage? (whoops - they can't be identified) Why not sue the O2 arena ? - Your only real possibility and you would need to have proof that the staff told you the concert was over.

That people threw bottles, that the concert was late, and that Axl acted like he did is not my concern. If O2 or MCD wish to tackle those issues then that is up to them. I am doing what the staff at O2 told me to do, if this turns out to be the wrong course of action then I will chase things up with O2.

I have had situations similar to this before with a positive result. If you feel I am wasting my time you are of course entitled to your opinion.

JimsAlterEgo

91011 wrote: »

No, the staff of the O2 are not agents of MCD and do not represent MCD. MCD pay O2 arena a price that includes staffing.

Your gripe is with O2 staff & O2 arena. MCD & guns n roses fulfilled their obligations from a legal point of view, it would not be possible for a court to rule against MCD.

If you go the O2 Arena route, you would have a better chance. - You could get cctv evidence of an amount of people leaving the venue.

we will see what the judge says then mr/mrs legal high and mighty

LuvSpudz

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

wow - very helpful
I have heard people saying thery have videos of o2 staff telling them to leave. Also house lights went on.

I have video of the lights coming on, does anyone have the footage of the staff telling people to leave? That would seal it.

91011

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

we will see what the judge says then mr/mrs legal high and mighty

This comment shows exactly what type of stubborn person you are.

Before wasting you time, maybe get a legal opinion on this.

Your case is NOT with MCD, your case as you have VERY clearly outlined, is with staff of the O2 arena. You don't need to have a legal brain to know this.

LuvSpudz

91011 wrote: »

Before wasting you time, maybe get a legal opinion on this.

Your case is NOT with MCD, your case as you have VERY clearly outlined, is with staff of the O2 arena. You don't need to have a legal brain to know this.

You're making sense 91011, personally I'm just following what they told me to do as a first step, so I can use the argument that I did as instructed.

As I said before next would be registered letter, but I've been browsing boards.ie and someone else suggested getting in touch with the National Consumer Agency - www.nca.ie so I reckon I'll do that next and get advised properly.

Caught

So any update yet lads?

JimsAlterEgo

anyone make a claim yet to SCC?

Did MCD reply to anyone?