54 points but did she cheat

ciaeim

last friday this woman scored 54 points off 31 in her club presidents prize to the ladies , the following day she played in our local societys captains prize and won with a score of 43 points off 31 . we only found out today that she had 54 points the day before . only one person knew of her previous days score who happens to be her husband and also our societys secretary. what i would like to know does anyone think anything is wrong here and if so what . ps i do have my own opinion on this but as i am complete novice i am looking for more experienced views ty

aster99

yes it was wrong, she should have applied the cut to her handicap for Fridays play and played off the correct handicap on the saturday

Jul3s

At first glance it seems wrong, but it may not be as different societies have different ways of regulating handicaps e.g. a guy in or club plays off 21 GUI handicap but has a society handicap of 16, and obviously it can work the other too, so it depends on what yer system is.

ciaeim

aster99 wrote: »

yes it was wrong, she should have applied the cut to her handicap for Fridays play and played off the correct handicap on the saturday

do you know what she should have cut herself . standard scratch was 39 points i am told

ciaeim

Jul3s wrote: »

At first glance it seems wrong, but it may not be as different societies have different ways of regulating handicaps e.g. a guy in or club plays off 21 GUI handicap but has a society handicap of 16, and obviously it can work the other too, so it depends on what yer system is.

our system is players play off their official handicap, another question as well, is it true you cant be cut for a society score

conno16

this is not good.

downthemiddle

conno16 wrote: »

this is not good.

No sh*t Sherlock.

You can no longer be cut for a society score but you must report the score to your home club as a reflection of your general play.
If your society play off official handicaps she should be disqualified as the player is obliged to apply handicap cuts immediately.

Mr. Larson

ciaeim wrote: »

do you know what she should have cut herself . standard scratch was 39 points i am told

Assuming this was all GUI handicap adjustments and also assuming she was off 31.0 she should have cut herself to 24 (24.4)

ciaeim

downthemiddle wrote: »

No sh*t Sherlock.

You can no longer be cut for a society score but you must report the score to your home club as a reflection of your general play.
If your society play off official handicaps she should be disqualified as the player is obliged to apply handicap cuts immediately.

what should she have been cut

ciaeim

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Assuming this was all GUI handicap adjustments and also assuming she was off 31.0 she should have cut herself to 24 (24.4)

thank you , any harm in asking how you came up with 24.4

Mr. Larson

No harm in asking. I didn't really do it carefully so there may be errors - but it was more to give you a general idea. Also, without knowing her exact handicap at the time it's impossible to accurately work it out.

54pts (her score) - 39pts (CSS) = 15 so she beat CSS by 15 shots.

She is Category 5. Her 1st cut is 0.5 for each shot better than CSS. She gets cut by 0.5 until she hits the next category down (Cat 4) then she gets cut by 0.4.

6 shots @ 0.5 takes her from 31.0 [assuming this for arguments sake] to 28.0
9 shots @ 0.4 takes her from 28.0 to 24.4

That's the 15 shots taken care of - clear as mud?

Take nothing away from her 1st round though - savage score. :cool:

Mr. Larson

You could argue she should only have had about 36 points the 2nd day if the correct cuts were applied.

scout353

It does really depend on whether your society is using the person's official GUI handicap.

If that is so then she should be DQ'd as it is incumbent on any player to cut his/her handicap immediately on completion of a round with a score in excess of the CSS.

Happened in our club where a guy played in the intermediate scratch in the morning and had a cut of 0.3 which saw his handicap drop by a shot. In the evening he played in the mixed foresomes but did not cut himself and was DQ'd.

In essence, she played off the incorrect handicap - the penalty for which is disqualification once she had signed and returned her card.

exaisle

It depends on how the society treats handicaps.

Some societies run their handicaps independently of any external play, so if her society handicap was 31, then she played off the correct handicap on both days. She would, of course, have to play off a significantly lower handicap the next time she played in her club.

My own society's rule is that you play off the lower of your club or your society handicap....so, in a case where a player whose club handicap is 18 and his society handicap is 20, the player will play off 18. However, if he leaves his club, he then reverts to his society handicap of 20.

Societies will often cut handicaps on the basis of prizes won rather than actual scoring, the intention being to have as wide a spread of prizes amongst the members as possible...and this is why society and club handicaps might be different.

E.

ciaeim

is their anyway of finding out oficially what should have been done about this when she never cut herself

yes it was a savage score but she is a very accomplished golfer playing a lot of team competions very successfully and has won just about every thing in our society which some members feel a bit aggrieved about (me included) we think she has unfair advantage when playing against men , forward tees , huge handicap , accomplished golfer .

she qualified to play in irish open killarney through some team event

Mister Sifter

All depends on the society's rules. Any society i know, the society handicap generally wouldn't be affected by the GUI handicap.

If she's been cleaning up though you'd have to wonder why the handicap sec of the society hasn't chopped her already. Sounds like your society's organisation is the problem.

Jasonw

If she is that accomplished then I think she should have known that she should have cut herself. If this was the case IMO she should be thrown out of the society.

If she didn't cut herself out of ignorance of the rule then a simple DQ would suffice. Even though the competition may now be closed she was still in breach of 6-2b which is one of the rules you may still be DQ'd for after the competition is closed. See Rule 34-1b Exception (ii)

Gophur

GUI Rules state you cannot play off a handicap higher than your official handicap.

This player should have cut herself for the second day.

Jasonw

Gophur wrote: »

GUI Rules state you cannot play off a handicap higher than your official handicap.

Not to be too picky but it's the rules of golf that state you cannot play off a handicap higher than your official handicap. The particular rule being Rule 6-2b as I stated above.

snowy666

Mister Sifter wrote: »

If she's been cleaning up though you'd have to wonder why the handicap sec of the society hasn't chopped her already. Sounds like your society's organisation is the problem.

Looks like this is the major problem...

ciaeim wrote: »

only one person knew of her previous days score who happens to be her husband and also our societys secretary.

...pu***-whipped hubby;)

SARZY

Mister Sifter wrote: »

All depends on the society's rules. Any society i know, the society handicap generally wouldn't be affected by the GUI handicap.

This is MAD. Surely the club handicap is the basis for the society handicap.

And since when did a score exceeding the CSS in a qualifying competition not count for handicap reduction.

The woman and her husband are not playing by the rules of handicapping.

But to be fair to them, the whole handicap thing is fckudup.

Mister Sifter

SARZY wrote: »

All depends on the society's rules. Any society i know, the society handicap generally wouldn't be affected by the GUI handicap.

This is MAD. Surely the club handicap is the basis for the society handicap.

And since when did a score exceeding the CSS in a qualifying competition not count for handicap reduction.

The woman and her husband are not playing by the rules of handicapping.

But to be fair to them, the whole handicap thing is fckudup.

Societies are generally a joke shop anyway - an excuse for piss ups and for golfing reprobates to hack up decent courses at a reduced rate. I wouldn't be getting overly worked up about it - societies should not be taken seriously.

searay

The OP has said in this society, official handicaps apply, meaning the official system applies.

She knew she scored 50plus points the day before, meaning she knew a cut was to be applied. If she had any doubts about how much the cut should be, she should have queried it before she signed the card and submitted a correct card.

I think applying the rules she should be disqualified from that competition and the committee should consider her future membership of the society.

Dustin Johnson was ignorant of a minor local rule and was correctly disqualified and took the punishment. I don't see how she can say "I didn't know my handicap should be cut." - Ch..t.

AdpRo

Society I play with cuts your 'society handicap' depending on what the average score was on the day ie if the average score was 30 pts on the day then anyone over 32 will get a reduction and anyone under 28 will get a shot back, no relationship to GUI handicap at all, my society handicap is 7 lower than my GUI.

exaisle

Societies are free to treat handicaps as they please. However, IF (and that's a big IF) the society operates on GUI/LGUI handicap rules, then clearly she should have cut her handicap for the society event.

Why don't you quietly ask your society captain or another committee member about it?

thelongfellow

exaisle wrote: »

Societies are free to treat handicaps as they please. However, IF (and that's a big IF) the society operates on GUI/LGUI handicap rules, then clearly she should have cut her handicap for the society event.

Why don't you quietly ask your society captain or another committee member about it?

At the end of the day, even if she did play off the wrong handicap, what is the worse that can happen to her?

They can kick her out of the society? Maybe, but she broke no rules of golf or GUI rules as it is 'only a society...'

Glencarraig

perhaps she played 27 holes!! This reminds me of the conversation i overheard at the club prizegiving when a lady went up to collect her prize for "nearest the pin", she apparently hit it to 5 inches!!, when asked by her friend what club she used, she replied "a 5 iron and a wedge" !!!

harpsman

Anyone who scores 54 points is guilty of severe gamesmanship.if shes capable of getting round in 13 overshe shouldnt be playing off 31.but shes only foolin herself.what good is winnin a few prizes if everybody thinks youre a cheat?

f22

Had to laugh at the "accomplished golfer" bit. How accomplished can someone be playing off a handicap of 31 be that wins all around them in any other way than being a cheat.

Every dog has it's day (excuse the pun) but according to the OP this individaul seems to have a habit of winning. Sounds like her husband needs to grow a pair too.

ciaeim

last night a meeting was held and she was disqualified and a vote of no confidence was taken on her husband who WAS our societys secretary , this society maybe only a society but it always tries to play to the rule of golf as it should imo , thank you all for your input

soundsham

What time are we meeting ?
http://www.onlydemocracy4iran.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/12.jpg

Morrisseeee

last night a meeting was held and she was disqualified and a vote of no confidence was taken on her husband who WAS our societys secretary

Wow, no messin there !
She's sounds like a bit of a gold digger alright :rolleyes:

Woodgate

ciaeim wrote: »

and a vote of no confidence was taken on her husband who WAS our societys secretary

What was the result/outcome of the vote?

ciaeim

outcome of vote was that he is no longer club secretary




plus other issues arrising from this to be discussed at future meeting re their participation in the society

scout353

Good to see that justice has prevailed!

ciaeim

just an update on this she had 54 points off of handicap 31 and she got cut by her club to 28 . not sure this was enough

Simplyjoe

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Societies are generally a joke shop anyway - an excuse for piss ups and for golfing reprobates to hack up decent courses at a reduced rate. I wouldn't be getting overly worked up about it - societies should not be taken seriously.

People like you is what gives golf a bad name. Snobby XXXXx. Go back to your pink lacoste shirt and check trousers. As a treasurer of a golf club i knowm that if you did not have societies you would not have many golf clubs. Maybe this is what you want!!

Mister Sifter

Simplyjoe wrote: »

People like you is what gives golf a bad name. Snobby XXXXx. Go back to your pink lacoste shirt and check trousers. As a treasurer of a golf club i knowm that if you did not have societies you would not have many golf clubs. Maybe this is what you want!!

Are you insinuating that i could be the 1 in 4?

Deep Thought

Glencarraig wrote: »

perhaps she played 27 holes!! This reminds me of the conversation i overheard at the club prizegiving when a lady went up to collect her prize for "nearest the pin", she apparently hit it to 5 inches!!, when asked by her friend what club she used, she replied "a 5 iron and a wedge" !!!

This wasnt perchance in a well know Lucan Club ?

I played in that comp, and what else could they do but give her the prize...

Class

mag

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Societies are generally a joke shop anyway - an excuse for piss ups and for golfing reprobates to hack up decent courses at a reduced rate. I wouldn't be getting overly worked up about it - societies should not be taken seriously.

soundsham

Simplyjoe wrote: »

People like you is what gives golf a bad name. Snobby XXXXx. Go back to your pink lacoste shirt and check trousers. As a treasurer of a golf club i knowm that if you did not have societies you would not have many golf clubs. Maybe this is what you want!!

i resent that remark.........i have that pink lacoste shirt,whats the deal

Sandwlch

Simplyjoe wrote: »

Go back to your pink lacoste shirt

Excuse me, but it most certainly is not 'pink' (yuuuck). We have standards in our club. If its a genuine Lacoste - its Roseate.

PhilipMarlowe

So a golfer who wears a pink lacoste shirt is a snob and someone who looks down on pink-lacoste-shirt wearing golfers is what then????

thegen

Licksy wrote: »

So a golfer who wears a pink lacoste shirt is a snob and someone who looks down on pink-lacoste-shirt wearing golfers is what then????

I think thats an inverted snob or in another word someone with no dress sense;)

GreeBo

thegen wrote: »

I think thats an inverted snob or in another word someone with no dress sense;)

Damn suop's!

ciaeim

glad to see that this stayed on op topic:D