Hospital Fees

cowhands

Hi All,

Apologies if this is in the wrong section please move if mod feels it needs to be elsewhere.

Long story short.
My partners mother was admitted to hospital in Wexford suffering with cancer, heart complications and depression. She died a some time after. She had a medical card and to my partners knowledge he or his brother never signed anything.
Last week my partner got a call from the solictor saying there was a small outstanding amount of money in his mothers account that the hospital want to give it back to him (somthing like €500) and to make contact with the hospital. So he does....

The lady at the hospital said she was just about to write him out the cheque when she realised that there was a bill of €7000 on her account. This has taken the hospital 4 years to discover this?

If he owes the money for his mothers care, fair enough but we cant see how her medical card never covered the fees and why has it take so long to get in contact? He would have paid off the balance with inheritance if he knew at the time. Now it just seems impossible to have to face this bill ontop of trying to keep our heads above water.

He has asked to see the admission records and all other details relating to her medical care but other than that we dont know where we stand.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paulw

I'm just guessing here, but surely it would be his mother (deceased) who is liable for the debt and not him.

I think he should seek proper legal advice, and consult a solicitor, before paying such a large amount.

Varik

Debts aren't automatically gone with the deceased. A person's debts must be repaid from funds or property owned in life. Generally, debts must be paid off before the inheritance can be distributed. The person executing the will may have to sell the deceased's property for funds to pay the debts. Of course, if the person dies broke and in debt, creditors don't get paid.

Those left behind don't usually inherit debts. But if you bequeath property that is collateral for a debt, the new recipient gets the debt along with the property. For example, if your house mortgage isn't paid off and you leave the house to your sister, she's stuck with the mortgage, too.

If you're married when you die, your spouse may be liable for your debts, the earnings and debts incurred during the marriage are equal property of the husband and wife. The remaining spouse could be liable for all debts of the deceased spouse.

Cabaal

Paulw wrote: »

I'm just guessing here, but surely it would be his mother (deceased) who is liable for the debt and not him.

Yes and no, the debt would be assumed by the executor of her estate.
Its that persons job to take care of the debt

Personally I'd get legal advice for this type of thing instead of depending on boards.ie, its too important an issue.

cowhands

Thanks all, some good points to go and find out about. Ill definately make sure other half gets some legal advice on the situation.

Thanks again

blossom180

cowhands wrote: »

Hi All,

Apologies if this is in the wrong section please move if mod feels it needs to be elsewhere.

Long story short.
My partners mother was admitted to hospital in Wexford suffering with cancer, heart complications and depression. She died a some time after. She had a medical card and to my partners knowledge he or his brother never signed anything.
Last week my partner got a call from the solictor saying there was a small outstanding amount of money in his mothers account that the hospital want to give it back to him (somthing like €500) and to make contact with the hospital. So he does....

The lady at the hospital said she was just about to write him out the cheque when she realised that there was a bill of €7000 on her account. This has taken the hospital 4 years to discover this?

If he owes the money for his mothers care, fair enough but we cant see how her medical card never covered the fees and why has it take so long to get in contact? He would have paid off the balance with inheritance if he knew at the time. Now it just seems impossible to have to face this bill ontop of trying to keep our heads above water.

He has asked to see the admission records and all other details relating to her medical care but other than that we dont know where we stand.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

get in touch with the hse.if your partners mother had medical card at the time of her illness she was covered.sorry it is such circumstances that you have to go through this.sometimes hospitel records dont show medical card records.

foggy_lad

THis is very true! Tell the hospital that the bill is covered by your partners mothers medical card and give them the number. If you can't find the card the Hse should be able to get it for you.

blossom180 wrote: »

get in touch with the hse.if your partners mother had medical card at the time of her illness she was covered.sorry it is such circumstances that you have to go through this.sometimes hospitel records dont show medical card records.

cowhands

Morning All,

Just to fill ye in on the current situation, it seems that what ever ward she was on was not covered by her medical card (according to the hospital) - I dont know how she got moved to this ward and/or if my other half or his brother signed for her to move (We are trying to get hold of her records).
Then they told us that they gave the mother a invoice in hospital which she thew on the floor (this is actually written in the medical records according to the lady in the hospital) She suffered with depression and nerves and was not in the right frame of mind to make any decisions like to be honest.
Thirdly the brother said that 2 years after her death the hospital sent him out a letter saying that they were changing the mothers doctor?! - he told them that this was not only very insensitive but also shows a complete lack of communication in the hospital.
The lady in the hospital then said there was a way to appeal the charges and that they are to ring tomorrow again.

I will get the other half to ring the hse and enquire about the medical card anyway. Thanks for the advice all.

foggy_lad

i would sugest before appealing any charges make sure that they are valid charges. it all sounds very suspicious as if these charges were made up. can they produce the invoice that was thrown on the floor?

they could even be mixing her up with another patient! anything is possible with HSE accounts except that they might be correct

antoinolachtnai

A geeky legal question this.

It is for the solicitor who dealt with the will or the estate of the deceased to deal with this in the first instance. If dealing with the estate has gone beyond a certain stage, and the hospital has not registered its claim, my first thought would be that it will be very difficult for the hospital to claim an entitlement to money now.

But the solicitor is the person to talk to. I really do not think you have anything to worry about it. If you really do have to pay the hospital, which I doubt, you can probably arrange to pay it off over a long period of time.

cowhands

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A geeky legal question this.

It is for the solicitor who dealt with the will or the estate of the deceased to deal with this in the first instance. If dealing with the estate has gone beyond a certain stage, and the hospital has not registered its claim, my first thought would be that it will be very difficult for the hospital to claim an entitlement to money now.

But the solicitor is the person to talk to. I really do not think you have anything to worry about it. If you really do have to pay the hospital, which I doubt, you can probably arrange to pay it off over a long period of time.

Thanks for your reply, However the mother never left any will and I think (Well as far as I know) my partner and his bother dealt with all her estate. She didnt have much bar a small house in Dublin which was sold shortly after her death.

antoinolachtnai

If the house was sold there must have been probate granted and a solicitor was almost certainly involved in the sale of the property.

Oryx

Ive probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but Ill ask anyway. Im assuming you mean Wexford General Hospital.

As a medical card patient, she should have had her bills paid. But even as a public patient, she would have had a daily bed fee, but that would have been capped. No way would she owe seven grand unless she was treated as a private patient. Was she?

Edit: I just realised Ive never heard of a hospital owing an individual money, either.

Caught

Oryx wrote: »

Ive probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but Ill ask anyway. Im assuming you mean Wexford General Hospital.

As a medical card patient, she should have had her bills paid. But even as a public patient, she would have had a daily bed fee, but that would have been capped. No way would she owe seven grand unless she was treated as a private patient. Was she?

Edit: I just realised Ive never heard of a hospital owing an individual money, either.

I was also struck by this when reading the original post.

The only way they could owe her money would be if she was paying them money, and they took too much off her. Or else they continued taking money from her bank account after she died.

As a previous poster mentioned, anything is possible with the HSE. It could be a complete mistake, or there could of been two Mary O Briens in the hospital..

Obviously Mary O Brien is just an example. I dont know what the lady's name was...

Anyways, good luck.

Head The Wall

If people are in a HSE nursing home their pensions are usually collected and administered by the HSE. The same could be true for a stay in a hospital.

From recent experience some bills (funeral etc) were paid from the pension that was collected and the rest went to the estate

foggy_lad

Head The Wall wrote: »

If people are in a HSE nursing home their pensions are usually collected and administered by the HSE. The same could be true for a stay in a hospital.

From recent experience some bills (funeral etc) were paid from the pension that was collected and the rest went to the estate

the pensions are no longer collected and administered by the HSE as this practice was deemed to be illegal afaik but elderly patients requiing nursing care long term are charged a fee for hospital stays which is about €40-€60 per week so depending on how long the woman was hospitalised this may in fact be what is now being sought but i would be surprised that it was not brought up before by hospital staff with members of the family.

cowhands

Oryx wrote: »

Ive probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but Ill ask anyway. Im assuming you mean Wexford General Hospital.

As a medical card patient, she should have had her bills paid. But even as a public patient, she would have had a daily bed fee, but that would have been capped. No way would she owe seven grand unless she was treated as a private patient. Was she?

Edit: I just realised Ive never heard of a hospital owing an individual money, either.

No not Wexford General. She was in St Senans as she had depression, and emotional issues unfortunately. There was also some instances of her going missing, attempting suicide and a letter sent to my brother in law after her death stating they were changing her doctor -There seemed to be much miscommunication in the hospital.
I dont know much about the hospital but they were taking her pension money in lieu of payment for her bed aswell as a contribution from her medical card.So it seems they were still claiming her pension after her death maybe??

cowhands

foggy_lad wrote: »

the pensions are no longer collected and administered by the HSE as this practice was deemed to be illegal afaik but elderly patients requiing nursing care long term are charged a fee for hospital stays which is about €40-€60 per week so depending on how long the woman was hospitalised this may in fact be what is now being sought but i would be surprised that it was not brought up before by hospital staff with members of the family.

His mother died 4 years ago, this is how long it goes back so Im very sure they hospital were taking her pension in lieu of her stay.

Neither my partner or his brother remember any discussions about paying for her hospital care, they cant remember ever signing anthing about a fee or ever sitting down to talk with the staff. It just seems so wrong that they would come looking for money now.
Also we have not seen an actual bill or invoice as of yet, everything has been said in conversations over the phone by the hospital accountant.

foggy_lad

even 4years ago they would not or should not have been taking the full pension for long term hospital stay, at most it would have been around €60 depending on the level of care required and the balance of the pension should have been givin to the patient or their next of kin, maybe this €7000 is the balance of the pension that is to be returned to the womans estate but the HSE have somehow got it backwards?

cowhands

foggy_lad wrote: »

even 4years ago they would not or should not have been taking the full pension for long term hospital stay, at most it would have been around €60 depending on the level of care required and the balance of the pension should have been givin to the patient or their next of kin, maybe this €7000 is the balance of the pension that is to be returned to the womans estate but the HSE have somehow got it backwards?

Now wouldnt that be nice! As someone else suggested perhaps they hav ethe wrong patient altogether. We really need to get our hands on her actual records and invoice. Its very interesting what you are saying about the e60 is there somewhere you can direct me to find out more about this charge?

wmpdd3

If possible get your mothers RSI no. (or pps no) this is probably going to be the only way you can be sure the hospital have the right person.

foggy_lad

cowhands wrote: »

Now wouldnt that be nice! As someone else suggested perhaps they hav ethe wrong patient altogether. We really need to get our hands on her actual records and invoice. Its very interesting what you are saying about the e60 is there somewhere you can direct me to find out more about this charge?

I only know of it because of a relative who had a prolonged stay in a local hospital and after a couple of weeks the matron/administrator got in touch with the patient to tell them they would have to be charged and helped in making arrangements for son or daughter to collect any weekly pensions they were due and they would take their payment from this.

At the time it was €30 a week for 13 weeks and went up to €65 after that but usually for most patients by this stage discussions would have happened about future care whether it be nursing home etc