starter kart

Turnstyle

Folks, after an enjoyable day out at pallas karting last week me and a few mates were thinking on buying a few karts to take to a track the odd day for a knock about, nothing too serious.
I have seen a few honda 270cc ones for sale, anyone know much about these in terms of performance and reliabilty/running costs? The rotax ones are a bit pricey for what we want and it is my understanding they require frequent engine rebuilds....
Also, do karts share a common build platform i.e. are parts like wheels, axles, bearings interchangable?
Any feedback and other kart suggestions appreciated, thanks

Timmaay

I'm in a similar enough boat to you, I would love to give karting a shot but I don't really have the money to start racing. I am thinking of getting a rotax instead of one of those honda 4strokes, I know they need more builds, but in fairness once I pick up one with a fairly fresh engine rebuild it should last me 2years or so. Mainly because I'll only get out on it once a month at most, and I cant imagine that as a beginner I'll be pushing a rotax max anywhere near its limit. Also, the sound, snappy power and smell of 2strokes is wayyy better 4strokes.

I would advice you to find a friend who knows their stuff about racing karts tho, you don't want to end up with a lemon of a kart with nice plastics/graphics, but chassis is twisted, engine knackered etc etc.

SouperComputer

Turnstyle wrote: »

Folks, after an enjoyable day out at pallas karting last week me and a few mates were thinking on buying a few karts to take to a track the odd day for a knock about, nothing too serious.

Good call

Turnstyle wrote: »

I have seen a few honda 270cc ones for sale, anyone know much about these in terms of performance and reliabilty/running costs? The rotax ones are a bit pricey for what we want and it is my understanding they require frequent engine rebuilds....
Also, do karts share a common build platform i.e. are parts like wheels, axles, bearings interchangable?
Any feedback and other kart suggestions appreciated, thanks

My reccomendation would be get a GX270 based one. Its going to be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run (less juice and no oil to mix) and cost near zero to maintain. Peformance wise, you are looking at 8.5HP for the Honda Vs 28 with the Max. Start with the GX based one, have a laugh and spend more money if you decide thats the way you want to go. Parts can be interchangable, but it really depends on what you are looking at.

Timmayy, word of warning, theres nothing "snappy" about a Max, dead on the bottom, power in the middle, dead on top. I'm not a fan to be honest but I'm a little oldschool.

Talk to one of the brothers at Pallas, they might have something for sale...

Turnstyle

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm in a similar enough boat to you, I would love to give karting a shot but I don't really have the money to start racing. I am thinking of getting a rotax instead of one of those honda 4strokes, I know they need more builds, but in fairness once I pick up one with a fairly fresh engine rebuild it should last me 2years or so. Mainly because I'll only get out on it once a month at most, and I cant imagine that as a beginner I'll be pushing a rotax max anywhere near its limit. Also, the sound, snappy power and smell of 2strokes is wayyy better 4strokes.

I would advice you to find a friend who knows their stuff about racing karts tho, you don't want to end up with a lemon of a kart with nice plastics/graphics, but chassis is twisted, engine knackered etc etc.

cheers for the reply, i was under the impression they required more frequent rebuilds, thats not so bad then i guess.
Can any mechanic peform the rebuilds or do they have to be sent to a Rotax specialist? any idea of the cost of a rebuild?

i was watching some clips on youtube and the 2 strokes look alot nippier to be fair.

Turnstyle

SouperComputer wrote: »

Good call



My reccomendation would be get a GX270 based one. Its going to be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run (less juice and no oil to mix) and cost near zero to maintain. Peformance wise, you are looking at 8.5HP for the Honda Vs 28 with the Max. Start with the GX based one, have a laugh and spend more money if you decide thats the way you want to go. Parts can be interchangable, but it really depends on what you are looking at.

Timmayy, word of warning, theres nothing "snappy" about a Max, dead on the bottom, power in the middle, dead on top. I'm not a fan to be honest but I'm a little oldschool.

Talk to one of the brothers at Pallas, they might have something for sale...

am i correct to assume these 270cc hondas are similar to the honda engines you see in builders generators, consaws etc..
would it have similar performance say as to what i drove at Pallas karting?
I have seen a few 2 strokes priced below €1k and am kind of tempted, possibly clapped out scrap for that money... theres a big jump in power

sure, ill give them a call and see, cheers

Timmaay

SouperComputer wrote: »

My reccomendation would be get a GX270 based one. Its going to be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run (less juice and no oil to mix) and cost near zero to maintain. Peformance wise, you are looking at 8.5HP for the Honda Vs 28 with the Max. Start with the GX based one, have a laugh and spend more money if you decide thats the way you want to go. Parts can be interchangable, but it really depends on what you are looking at.

Timmayy, word of warning, theres nothing "snappy" about a Max, dead on the bottom, power in the middle, dead on top. I'm not a fan to be honest but I'm a little oldschool.

Thanks for the advice! I just assumed that a rotax would be snappy in comparison to a 4stroke, like a 125 2stroke mx bike verses a xr etc). I sort of knew that rotax are not the bees knees in the kart racing circle, but to be honest I'm definitely after something better then a 8.5hp 4stroke (I'm all 2stroke at motocross also). I appreciate that I'll probably learn more from being on a less powerful kart starting out, but even so I'm just doing it for the fun of it!

However after reading up about it today, I'm after a TKM now! 1/2 the price of a rotax, you can rebuild the engine yourself, no messing around with electric starters etc, and its a 115cc aircooled, is that old school enough for ya soupercomputer ha! Its only a pity there is nowhere to race them in Ireland (or is there???)

Also, can anyone tell me if I need a licence to practice in the likes of Collon or athboy?

SouperComputer

Turnstyle wrote: »

cheers for the reply, i was under the impression they required more frequent rebuilds thats not so bad then i guess.
Can any mechanic peform the rebuilds or do they have to be sent to a Rotax specialist? any idea of the cost of a rebuild?

i was watching some clips on youtube and the 2 strokes look alot nippier to be fair.

Rotax will require rebuilds whereas the honda wont really. Cost, depends on what you replace. If you are just playing with it you can rebuild it yourself. When you get competitive then it needs to be done and sealed by a Rotax agent. The GX270 would be something like pallas, altho I think they run GX390s? Theres some quick 4 strokes out there, but they can be spendy to buy, with the exception of whats called "Superpro Karts'. What are the karts you are looking at for <1K. A lot of the older 100cc karts are plenty quick, as in 1min flat or less around Mondello Park National, so dont be deceived by the cc.

Timmayy, yeah a Max is nippy compared to a GX for sure. If you are going the simplicity route, get your hands on a Formula A, ICA or "100 National" engine. Direct drive and enough power to get you to triple digits. www.properkarting.com

Turnstyle

that sounds ok, im handy enough with an engine anyway so with proper guidelines rebuilding shouldnt be a major issue.
i seen a few karts under 1k with vortex 100cc engines fitted and swiss hutless chassis i think..
i think i may pick up the 270cc to learn on and purchase a two stroke/faster kart a bit further down the line, be always handy to have the 4stroke at hand if the 2stroke is out of action

SouperComputer

Turnstyle wrote: »

that sounds ok, im handy enough with an engine anyway so with proper guidelines rebuilding shouldnt be a major issue.
i seen a few karts under 1k with vortex 100cc engines fitted and swiss hutless chassis i think..
i think i may pick up the 270cc to learn on and purchase a two stroke/faster kart a bit further down the line, be always handy to have the 4stroke at hand if the 2stroke is out of action

Do you know if it is a piston port engine? These are commonly called "JICAs" or juniors. A JICA is going to be 25BHP easy, but quite a bit lighter than a max with a wider powerband. The rotaries and reeds make about 32-36. They are simple enough to rebuild once you know how. Parts arent too cheap though. The JICAs will rev to about 18,500RPM if you let them, the rotaries 19-20,000 and reeds 22,000. If you get one, keep revs under 17,500 for longevity. 22,000 RPM is piston life <30min territory, whereas 17,500 its hours.

Turnstyle

pretty sure its a junior, if it was just after being fully rebuilt and kept below 17,500 what kind of ball park hours could you expect from it?
where do you source your karts and parts from souper?

SouperComputer

Turnstyle wrote: »

pretty sure its a junior, if it was just after being fully rebuilt and kept below 17,500 what kind of ball park hours could you expect from it?
where do you source your karts and parts from souper?

Get the full details on what was replaced. A lot say "full rebuild" when they did a piston and small end bearing. The big end and mains need to be done. Check for play in the crank. A little side to side movement (endfloat) is normal, but the cranks should sit snnug on their main bearings with no play. Opinions vary, but at 17,500 you can get 10hrs+ on the top end 20 on the bottom. This is based on using the correct castor-based racing oil mixed at 16:1. Might not sound like much but you'd be surprised. The JICA you could probably rev even lower.

I dont live in Ireland anymore and a lot of my stuff over here has been free\sponsored For spares\parts you can try Brennans or Ger McCarthy, their details should be on www.irishkarting.com. Failing that theres some good UK-based based guys on eBay (nextkarting) as well as Dartford karting: http://www.kartstore.co.uk/

Timmaay

Soupercomputer, can you tell me if a direct drive kart is much more hassle then a clutched one for a complete beginner? The clutched tkms are a bit harder to come by then direct drive.

SouperComputer

Timmaay wrote: »

Soupercomputer, can you tell me if a direct drive kart is much more hassle then a clutched one for a complete beginner? The clutched tkms are a bit harder to come by then direct drive.

Its hard to say, its kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other. With direct drive you will have to drive better and you'll have to learn the art of push starting, it can be a pain to what is already a steep learning cure. But then you dont have to worry about burning out and having to replace clutches. Plus you have to buy a starter of course if you go clutch.

Thats said I thought most TKMs are clutch no?

Robbo

SouperComputer wrote: »

Thats said I thought most TKMs are clutch no?

Didn't they only start putting a clutch in them about 2001 or so and even then it was optional with most opting not to?

SouperComputer wrote: »

The JICA you could probably rev even lower.

17k was about the top of it back when I finished. I'd have the Vortex VA98 pulling up as far as 16,800. About 15k should be a nice balance of power/longevity on a pistonport.

Timmaay

Hmm there seems to be a good bit of talk about the clutches in tkms on the uk forum so I just assumed there was a good few of them. If its that hard to get a clutched tkm, am I just better off getting a Rotax and keeping open the option of racing it here. Electric start and a clutch do sound nice for a beginner like myself!

nuckeythompson

I know this is an old post but does anyone know where I can get a throttle cable for a Honda gx270 9.0 ? Thanks