Just a Comparison: Being TG in Ireland

Katherine Jane

Hi everyone!

I am just curious about how difficult (relatively speaking) life is for a person transitioning in Ireland, against what my experiences are in the United States. Not just with governmental nonsense (universal), but also with the Church (Catholic, and Anglican, and all others), and most importantly, on a daily basis. Friends, family, co workers, etc. I would really love to hear your thoughts.

Kate

Miss Ogyne

The Church - who cares what they think? they have enough of their own issues to be looking down on to have the any right to look down on mine

Family/Friends - Some will stick by you some won't, if they choose not to then that's their issue not mine, if me staying unhappy is a condition of them staying happy then they don't deserve to be in my life in the first place. If they truly loved me as a child/sibling/friend then they should want me to be happy. I'm hurting no one and my choice effects no one but me so they have no moral high ground or input into my decision.

Work - so so, we have loads of American companies with strict rules on equal opportunities but it still doesn't mean that the personal opinion of the Irish person interviewing won't sway whether you get a job or not, it's hit or miss but usually 90% miss. There are a lot of reasons a person can put down as to why they didn't give you the job before they ever have to resort to "We'll simply because it's a guy in a dress and that's just wrong in my opinion".

Katherine Jane

So, pretty much the same issues as in the United States (well, in the more conservative areas). I just was wondering what day to day mundane life was like there.

Miss Ogyne

Katherine Jane wrote: »

So, pretty much the same issues as in the United States (well, in the more conservative areas). I just was wondering what day to day mundane life was like there.

Same as everywhere else I suppose, I pass pretty well so to know for sure takes direct interaction, I've lived full time for 3 years and have only been noticed 3 times and neither of those times amounted to anything more than a few "you freak" type insults usually said behind my back. In my experience most of those types are afraid to say anything to your face so are better ignored. I'd consider them to be no better than something I'd wipe off the bottom of my shoe anyway so their opinion of me means very little really.

I'm studying at the moment and all the people on my course (19 males and 2 other females) are fine about it, a fair few of the males I'd consider good friends who I chat to all the time over weekends and I do programming work for one sometimes although he's from New York so his opinion is "I don't give a **** what you wear as long as you can get the job done", like a typical New Yorker his alphabet is pretty much "f***ing A, f***ing B, f***ing C...". There was another course running a while back, in Mechanics I think, populated by what I like to class as knuckle dragging Neanderthals who would take pot shots at me during break times (behind my back of course) so I got irritated one day and went up to the ringleader and in front of everyone asked "Why are you so desperate to get my attention?" a lot of stutters from him ensued after that and every time I caught him looking at me after that I'd just wave and blow kisses and stuff like that so the focus went from them jeering me to them jeering him, lesson learned really

Katherine Jane

Oh, I can well relate to that type of mentiality. But I've more often noticed a confusion on the part of guys. "Why would you want to be a chick"? sort of thing.

L.Jenkins

So it's pretty much the same all over. I have told friends so far and they are cool about it, but I haven't had the experience of transition yet so there's alot I can't relate to yet.

Katherine Jane

You know, the first month after I began transition, I kept everything very subtle, but am now more, and more going more feminine at work. Just got a new hair style this morning, and have started with more women's business attire. It's been pretty straightforward, as far as reactions.

Miss Ogyne

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

So it's pretty much the same all over. I have told friends so far and they are cool about it, but I haven't had the experience of transition yet so there's alot I can't relate to yet.

I'll be honest with you just so you know what to expect, the friends that are cool now won't necessarily be the friends that will be cool when you transition. It's a big step from "Yeah sure you want to be female but look male now so thats fine" to "OK now you are trying to look female and others might see me with you and get the wrong idea (as in assume I'm dating you)" so don't expect them to hang around, 98% of my friends now are friends I made after transitioning, very few of my old friends hung around and that's pretty standard for every transsexual

Katherine Jane

Miss Ogyne wrote: »

I'll be honest with you just so you know what to expect, the friends that are cool now won't necessarily be the friends that will be cool when you transition. It's a big step from "Yeah sure you want to be female but look male now so thats fine" to "OK now you are trying to look female and others might see me with you and get the wrong idea (as in assume I'm dating you)" so don't expect them to hang around, 98% of my friends now are friends I made after transitioning, very few of my old friends hung around and that's pretty standard for every transsexual

THAT is so true! It is one thing at work where they HAVE to deal with you, but in social settings, your friends will change. Miss is absolutely right about that.

L.Jenkins

Miss Ogyne wrote: »

I'll be honest with you just so you know what to expect, the friends that are cool now won't necessarily be the friends that will be cool when you transition. It's a big step from "Yeah sure you want to be female but look male now so thats fine" to "OK now you are trying to look female and others might see me with you and get the wrong idea (as in assume I'm dating you)" so don't expect them to hang around, 98% of my friends now are friends I made after transitioning, very few of my old friends hung around and that's pretty standard for every transsexual

Katherine Jane wrote: »

THAT is so true! It is one thing at work where they HAVE to deal with you, but in social settings, your friends will change. Miss is absolutely right about that.

Thank you both for your honest opinion and that's what I need. I don't want to delude myself into thinking that everything will be cool when I do transition.

Miss Ogyne

Katherine Jane wrote: »

You know, the first month after I began transition, I kept everything very subtle, but am now more, and more going more feminine at work. Just got a new hair style this morning, and have started with more women's business attire. It's been pretty straightforward, as far as reactions.

I wouldn't have been able to do it like that, it seems to drawn out to do it bit by bit, it's kind of like do you take off a plaster slowly or just rip it off. I'm of the "Rip it off" point of view. I went and changed my name and to get my new documents was going to take two weeks so in those two weeks I changed everything I could, made everyone aware and the day I got called to tell me my docs were ready I transitioned fully that day, I picked them up in my real gender and by then had gotten rid of everything that was male so I came home with my new name to a woman's apartment and a woman's life. Bit by bit just drags out the inevitable.

Katherine Jane

Miss Ogyne wrote: »

I wouldn't have been able to do it like that, it seems to drawn out to do it bit by bit, it's kind of like do you take off a plaster slowly or just rip it off. I'm of the "Rip it off" point of view. I went and changed my name and to get my new documents was going to take two weeks so in those two weeks I changed everything I could, made everyone aware and the day I got called to tell me my docs were ready I transitioned fully that day, I picked them up in my real gender and by then had gotten rid of everything that was male so I came home with my new name to a woman's apartment and a woman's life. Bit by bit just drags out the inevitable.

I'm more of a "don't upset the apple cart" kinda girl. You are a heckuva lot more brave than I am.

L.Jenkins

Two different approaches, but I think I would be inclined to take it nice and slowly. I just have to remind myself to pace myself and take it one step at a time.

Miss Ogyne

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Thank you both for your honest opinion and that's what I need. I don't want to delude myself into thinking that everything will be cool when I do transition.

It won't be cool, expect a lot of resistance but I'll can give you one piece of advice about that resistance and try remember this. EVERYONE (Family and friends) who object will use phrases like "But what about what you are doing to us", "How do you think this makes us feel" etc but always remember they say "us", what they want is whats best for them not whats best for you and in most cases are more worried what some stranger on the street will think of them than your own happiness.

They will try guilt you a lot but (and this is going to be a very controversial thing to say) you have to remember one thing, you have to make you happy, no one else. Your parents/family/friends can guilt you but if they do and you hit 50 still male and they die/move on/have their own life and then there's no guilt anymore then how much would you look back on today and think "I wish I'd have done it then". Start a thread on here and ask how many TS wish they didn't go for it earlier and the reason they didn't was guilt trips, I'm willing to bet there's a lot who only transitioned after their parents deaths because of that guilt

Miss Ogyne

Katherine Jane wrote: »

I'm more of a "don't upset the apple cart" kinda girl. You are a heckuva lot more brave than I am.

Ironically I'm not that brave at all, it was just a case of (excuse the pun) having the balls to take that first step and after that every other one was just one more little step

Miss Ogyne

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Two different approaches, but I think I would be inclined to take it nice and slowly. I just have to remind myself to pace myself and take it one step at a time.

It's best to do it at your own pace, like you said two different approaches but if you need some advice or info feel free to pm me and ask

L.Jenkins

Miss Ogyne wrote: »

It won't be cool, expect a lot of resistance but I'll can give you one piece of advice about that resistance and try remember this. EVERYONE (Family and friends) who object will use phrases like "But what about what you are doing to us", "How do you think this makes us feel" etc but always remember they say "us", what they want is whats best for them not whats best for you and in most cases are more worried what some stranger on the street will think of them than your own happiness.

They will try guilt you a lot but (and this is going to be a very controversial thing to say) you have to remember one thing, you have to make you happy, no one else. Your parents/family/friends can guilt you but if they do and you hit 50 still male and they die/move on/have their own life and then there's no guilt anymore then how much would you look back on today and think "I wish I'd have done it then". Start a thread on here and ask how many TS wish they didn't go for it earlier and the reason they didn't was guilt trips, I'm willing to bet there's a lot who only transitioned after their parents deaths because of that guilt

I understand that family and friends will guilt me into not doing it. I want to sort myself out in life, like get an apartment away from my own home town and what ever work I can get my hands on. I know 100% that I want to transition and I do not want to let anything stop me no matter how much it hurts and maybe (Possible delusion) that family and friends will just accept it.

Miss Ogyne

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

I understand that family and friends will guilt me into not doing it. I want to sort myself out in life, like get an apartment away from my own home town and what ever work I can get my hands on. I know 100% that I want to transition and I do not want to let anything stop me no matter how much it hurts and maybe (Possible delusion) that family and friends will just accept it.

It's not a delusion, we all want that, I think we all want acceptance and if we can get it from our loved ones all the better but if you can't get it from them then don't see it as a failing on your part see it as a failing on theirs. Real love is suppose to be unconditional, who you are now isn't any different to who you were when you were 3 years old, running around farting and ****ting in nappies and making them laugh when you threw food everywhere and called the dog "da"

L.Jenkins

I think family would still love you be feel absolutely betrayed by the fact that you are crushing their dreams and hopes for you they formed when you were a child. As for being discusted by my transition, I feel it would come from there lack of exposure to diversity in their lifes. Homosexuality is still a strange concept for most of my family.

I've had the fortune of being exposed to a large variety of people in my life and feel completely comfortable with almost everyone I meet, apart from morons and trolls.

Miss Ogyne

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

I think family would still love you be feel absolutely betrayed by the fact that you are crushing their dreams and hopes for you they formed when you were a child. As for being discusted by my transition, I feel it would come from there lack of exposure to diversity in their lifes. Homosexuality is still a strange concept for most of my family.

I've had the fortune of being exposed to a large variety of people in my life and feel completely comfortable with almost everyone I meet, apart from morons and trolls.

but thats the point, who are they to decide that their dreams for you is the path you should take? as a child they should encourage you to be all you can be to be happy as you by your own way and not be a way for them to live vicariously through you, they have no right to map out your life before you are old enough to give your own opinion

L.Jenkins

I have every intention to live my life the way I intend to. If it upsets them so be it. I have met so many courageous trans people so far who have transitioned and that in itself gives me a further desire to go through with it.

I'll get over the loss of my family if it comes to that.

Katherine Jane

Although my father has accepted that he can do nothing about my decision, my mother has been brilliant about it. MissOgonye (sp?) is absolutely right, you CANNOT spend your time trying to think about how others "feel". It is what YOU feel that is important.

L.Jenkins

This has been going through my mind the whole time and thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I just need to worry less

deirdre_dub

Miss Ogyne wrote: »

Work - so so, we have loads of American companies with strict rules on equal opportunities but it still doesn't mean that the personal opinion of the Irish person interviewing won't sway whether you get a job or not, it's hit or miss but usually 90% miss.

I'm confused by what you are saying there - is it 90% that you will get the job irrespective of your condition, or 90% that you won't?

Miss Ogyne

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I'm confused by what you are saying there - is it 90% that you will get the job irrespective of your condition, or 90% that you won't?

90% that you won't, Irish opinion of Transsexuals is still pretty backwards even more so during a job interview because you're not only being assessed on your ability to do the job but also at the back of the interviews mind they are thinking "If I hire this person will they expect everyone to call them "She"/"Her", if people don't what problems could that cause the company, which toilet will the want to use.., could this person really fully intergrate into a team of others with varying opinions" etc. I personally feel that when Transsexuals are interview we usually get the short end of the stick. A company may claim that they practice equal oppotrunities but thats not to say that they do. I'm willing to bet that people who are interviewing rarely if ever get training on how the interview should be conducted if the interviewee is TS i.e. "Your personal opinion should be left outside the door, the person should only be judged on their abiility to do the job"