IN-CONCLUSIVE TB test

zetorman

Had my annual TB test reading this morning and 3 of my cows were deemed "inconclusive". My vet says this means the following ...
(1) Dept will hod my card and I cannot sell anything.
(2) Those 3 animals have to be re tested in 40 days and if clear my cards will be returned.
(3) if they are inconclusive again they are deemed to be "reactors"

What are my options if any here ?

snowman707

zetorman wrote: »

Had my annual TB test reading this morning and 3 of my cows were deemed "inconclusive". My vet says this means the following ...
(1) Dept will hod my card and I cannot sell anything.
(2) Those 3 animals have to be re tested in 40 days and if clear my cards will be returned.
(3) if they are inconclusive again they are deemed to be "reactors"

What are my options if any here ?

your dvo will contact you in the next few days and tell you options

you might be given the opportunity to do the following

(a.) slaughter the 3 cows and opt for pm to be carried out on them, if no lesions then you get your cards back

(b) slaughter the cows without pm and do a herd test between 42 and 60 days

(c) as you mentioned retest the 3 cows between 42 and 60 days and if clear you get all your cards

the above are only guidelines, your dvo or indeed the dept. vet dealing with the matter may have different ideas.

blue5000

dept reaction could be influenced if any of your neighbours are down, also if your own tb history is bad ie had you breakdown recently.

Are you hoping to sell stock before the winter? If you are then quickest option might be to slaughter the 3 cows. Chances are if 3 are doubtful, 1 will be reactor in next test and then you will be locked up for min of 6 months.

Wait as op said to talk to dvo before deciding though, it's not the end of the world, might be worthwhile letting the bank know too if you had intended to sell cattle.:(:(

whelan1

ye quickest option would be to kill them and see, otherwise you will be waiting and could still be locked up and there is a chance they could be spreading tb if they do have it

snowman707

whelan1 wrote: »

ye quickest option would be to kill them and see, otherwise you will be waiting and could still be locked up and there is a chance they could be spreading tb if they do have it

how long does the pm results take , a few years ago they used to take up to 60 days to culture, from date of slaughter

just to add if you opt to slaughter them now you will not receive any compensation ,, only the factory value

whelan1

a few weeks ago i sent a cull cow to the factory and she showed up with lesions. They took my cards while they waited for the results , it took about 16 days and she was clear. I got my cards back .If he was to kill them with the consent of the dept would he not get compensation?

snowman707

whelan1 wrote: »

.If he was to kill them with the consent of the dept would he not get compensation?

don't think so , we had a cow 'doubtful' and they wouldn't compensate us so we retested her after 42 days & she was clear,

They held all our cards 'cos we were bounding a locked up herd on the out farm, even though there was a forestry belt between us.

as blue said might depend on a number of issues locally the op's past history the dept may decide to take out the cows

I know for sure DVO's differ

pakalasa

Just wondering, but how many here have their annual test early in the year? I have to have mine before early June. For me, this is ideal in that, if I have a reactor, I will have enough time to clear tests before I sell my weanlings in the Autumn.
For people selling in the Autumn, would it not be better to have the annual test early in the year. ASAIK you can switch it. It would mean having only a few months between 2 annuals, but worth it, I think!;)

whelan1

we always test around paddys day , but in saying that if you do your annual test in the autumn and you are clear at least you know that when the animals are housed they wont be spreading it iykwim. As they normally pick tb up outdoors .

Jed_Bartlet

Just be mindful that if you do choose to slaughter the animals without getting the glands taken for culture, they could always show up with something in the factory and then the glands will be taken regardless of whether or not you wanted them taken in first place.

Culturing can still take up to 60 days. In my experience, the sooner you hear back from the DVO, the worse the news is going to be.

If it were me (and if the animals were factory ready,) I'd slaughter the animals without having the glands taken and wait to see if they turn up anything in the factory. If they don't, you can retest the herd 42-60 days later.

snowman707

Jed_Bartlet wrote: »

Culturing can still take up to 60 days. In my experience, the sooner you hear back from the DVO, the worse the news is going to be.

.

whelan1 wrote: »

a few weeks ago i sent a cull cow to the factory and she showed up with lesions. They took my cards while they waited for the results , it took about 16 days and she was clear. I got my cards back .If he was to kill them with the consent of the dept would he not get compensation?

I was wondering how whelan got the all clear after 16 days, they held my cards for 60 days a few years ago , maybe I'm missing something here, (usually do)

Jed_Bartlet

Whelan1's experience isn't unique, but it is rare. In most of the cases I've come across, it takes much longer than 16 days for a negative result of TB to come back from the lab.

Oftentimes, when glands are cultured and a result comes back fairly soon, it can indicate that the cause of the lesions which were spotted by the Veterinary Inspector in the factory wasn't TB but some other condition, like an early stage of Necrobacillosis. In a case like that, the animal would have been deemded to be a false positive which again isn't rare.

Just on the other point whelan1 raised, you definately won't get compensation from the Dept. for the 3 doubtfuls if you choose to slaughter them, just full factory price (as opposed to salvage price for reactor animals). If the animals test positive or inconclusive again, then they'll be declared reactors and you'd be entitled to the reactor grant compensation (you could also be entitled to Income Supplement if more than 10% of the herd go down, i.e. if you only have 25 animals and you retest all 3 doubtfuls and they fail again, then you'll get an I.S. payment for the 3 reactors which wouldn't be much for 3 animals but you'd get it until the herd goes clear again).

Short of the animals failing a subsequent test, the only way to get an animal removed as a reactor is if a V.I. deems the animals as reactors and orders their removal.

snowman707

Jed_Bartlet wrote: »

Whelan1's experience isn't unique, but it is rare. In most of the cases I've come across, it takes much longer than 16 days for a negative result of TB to come back from the lab.

Oftentimes, when glands are cultured and a result comes back fairly soon, it can indicate that the cause of the lesions which were spotted by the Veterinary Inspector in the factory wasn't TB but some other condition, like an early stage of Necrobacillosis. In a case like that, the animal would have been deemded to be a false positive which again isn't rare.

thanks, false positive explains it, knew to took up to 60 days for tb.

whelan1

in fairness the fact she didnt have tb was the only bit of good luck i have had this year:eek: my neighbour waited 45 days for a result from factory and then had to test as it was inconclusive

blue5000

Hi zetorman
just wondering how you got on with DVO?

zetorman

Girl from DVO rang to say my cards will be held pending the re test on the 3 cows after 42 days. If they go clear I get cards back and can sell away etc........But if they don't go clear I am in bother as i will then need two clear tests 60 days apart to get FREE !!!

I am going to test the 3 cows and hope for the best ???? I have heard lots of stories about all sort of magic potions I could give them to help them go clear. anyone have any luck with these ???

reilig

zetorman wrote: »

I am going to test the 3 cows and hope for the best ???? I have heard lots of stories about all sort of magic potions I could give them to help them go clear. anyone have any luck with these ???

Yea, there's loads of people having luck with them, that's the whole problem with TB in the country these days. Farmer sees a lump the day before the cows are due to come off test, he gets a little injection for them and next day the lump is gone. He sells the cattle straight away and passes his tb infected cattle onto another innocent farmer who risks infecting his whole herd.

Anyone caught using these "magic potions" should have their herd number taken from them in my opinion and they should never get it back!!!!!!

whelan1

zetorman wrote: »

Girl from DVO rang to say my cards will be held pending the re test on the 3 cows after 42 days. If they go clear I get cards back and can sell away etc........But if they don't go clear I am in bother as i will then need two clear tests 60 days apart to get FREE !!!

I am going to test the 3 cows and hope for the best ???? I have heard lots of stories about all sort of magic potions I could give them to help them go clear. anyone have any luck with these ???

by using these potions you are only prolonging the enevitable imo

Min

pakalasa wrote: »

Just wondering, but how many here have their annual test early in the year? I have to have mine before early June. For me, this is ideal in that, if I have a reactor, I will have enough time to clear tests before I sell my weanlings in the Autumn.
For people selling in the Autumn, would it not be better to have the annual test early in the year. ASAIK you can switch it. It would mean having only a few months between 2 annuals, but worth it, I think!;)

I know a guy who lives not too far away and his herd has been restricted with TB since the early summer of 2009.

lefthooker

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I find myself with an inconclusive cow and locked up. I'm weighing up my options and am just wondering;
Of the animals that were deemed inconclusive in the first test how many showed up as positive in either the retest or after samples being taken after slaughter?

LH

mahoney_j

I had one reactor 3 yeaars ago,There wasnt as much as a lump to be measured on any of my other stock.None of my neighbours have or recently got tb.The heifer was removed slaughterd and had no leigons and cultures were all clear.I ended up after a lot of talking with my local dvo having one more test and if clear cards back.First retest was all clear and got my cards back

lefthooker

I'm leaning towards doing the retest in 6 weeks, the way I see it its the quickest way to get a definitive answer. When the rest of the herd was clear and none of the neighbours are down I reckon there's a good chance of going clear.

Still I'd like to hear how anyone got on in a retest

jomoloney

had 2 cows doubtful about 4 year s ago , opted for retest, still have the cows today

lefthooker

jomoloney wrote: »

had 2 cows doubtful about 4 year s ago , opted for retest, still have the cows today

I've had 1, maybe 2 cows doubtful[always cows:rolleyes:] in the last 6-7 years and they're still clear today. Never had to do a retest and wasn't locked up. I shouldn't be this time either but another man bounding me on a different block is riddled with TB, kinda guilt by association

greysides

National statistical averages aren't going to help you decide. Looking around you and knowing your history may well be a much better guide. Sometimes the decision is so 50:50 that the consequences of going down now and starting the ball rolling or taking a chance and perhaps going down later is how the matter is decided. Sometimes with no way to know what the future will bring it comes down to whether you are a person that plays safe or takes chances. It's all down to you. Your own vet is best placed to try to balance the odds but it's still a decision that only time will decide if you make it correctly or not.

lefthooker

greysides wrote: »

it's still a decision that only time will decide if you make it correctly or not.

Time is my problem. I buy in 35-40 calves around this time annually, FR replacements and continentals and rear them along side my own calves. Also cull empty cows coming up to the end of March and replace with heifers. Now if I was only doubtful I could still buy in but the restriction has made a fcuk of that. Retest in 42 days from the first test would be the quickest option rather than herd test 42 days from when I got the cow slaughtered or minimum 60 day to grow culture from samples.

We always used to test in November when the houses were full but between contiguous tests and testing cos bordering herds were down, the test has pushed around to a bad time for me

greysides

Have you talked to the DVO? They might be able to help in some way. You could ask about buying in the calves, at your own risk if need be, as it's very rare for calves to go down.

lefthooker

I was talking to a vet in the DVO today regards buying in calves. If I was prepared to put something in writing stating that no stock were adjacent to the other mans holdings then they might be able to do something for me. Now that would only be half true and a whole lie and be it on my own head if I was found with stock next to him.

freedominacup

greysides wrote: »

National statistical averages aren't going to help you decide. Looking around you and knowing your history may well be a much better guide. Sometimes the decision is so 50:50 that the consequences of going down now and starting the ball rolling or taking a chance and perhaps going down later is how the matter is decided. Sometimes with no way to know what the future will bring it comes down to whether you are a person that plays safe or takes chances. It's all down to you. Your own vet is best placed to try to balance the odds but it's still a decision that only time will decide if you make it correctly or not.

De sister who knows a little bit about these things told me years ago (not sure if she was doing her masters or phd at the time) that statistically the TB test we use was so inaccurate that it was statistically possible that in a year every animal it showed to have TB would not have it and at the same time it could miss every animal in the country with TB. This is not a fella in the pub yold me, this woman is well qualified having started with an Ag degree and gone from there. Just something to keep in mind when the dept are laying down law about what you can and can't do. At the moment they are strapped for cash and keeping the costs of a breakdown under control is their first priority. Three near neighbours lost 150 cows between them out of less than 200 plus various other stock in the past 18 months one of them was back to 3 milkers at one point (of 50) but none of them were "depopulated" because the compensation scheme moves to a different level in that scenario. a few years ago they'd have had the option of de-populating much earlier in such a severe breakdown nevermind the dept dragging their heels when 90% of a farmers cows were gone. One bad TB breakdown 10-15% losses in a cow herd in 10 years would cover the cost of keeping a herd pedigree btw. Compensation for milk recorded pedigrees is far higher than for unregistered, unrecorded cows. The registered and recorded ones get compensation based on their records with an increased payment for pedigree status un-recorded cows get compensation on basis of national average cow can be several hundred per animal in difference.