Science v Religion

darkman2

Does God exist - or does Science trump all? What do you think?

Check this out - pro science btw


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-god-delusion/4od#2919518

Duggy747

Go to bed.

cloneslad

I can't see this one ending to well for the O.P

/re-opens popcorn bucket!

ibtl

TheReverend

darkman2 wrote: »

Does God exist - or does Science trump all? What do you think?

Check this out - pro science btw


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-god-delusion/4od#2919518

Thanks for posting this, I missed it when it was on

Handsome Bob

Hello Homer, this......is god.

henryporter

If God existed he wold have saved the Twin Towers and smote down the infidels who thought up such a dastardly plan to begin with

Gaunty

Theres no way this will end in a flame war. It will be a logical well thought out discussion this time. I'm positive of it.

Sea Sharp

If god isn't real then where does sunshine, magic and love come from???
:rolleyes:

There is no direct conflict in my opinion. Science is about saying "Oh you have an idea, can you explain it to me in a way that differentiates you from some idiot who's talking through his arse?"

Religious theories don't ever get past this bullsh1t test.

God is a safety blanket to some people. It doesn't really matter if it exists or not.

Stercus Accidit

Well religion has given us vaccines, cures from diseases, computers, space travel, space stations, gene therapies, synthetic materials, cars, internet and so on.

Science has only given us ignorance and war.

Oh wait...

Terry

Both science and religion can cause fear in people. However, science provides rational fear, whereas religious fear is completely based on myth and superstition.

The same can be applied to happiness.

Ghost Train

ModGod Warning

Section 36 defines a new offence of "Publication or utterance of blasphemous matter", which carries a maximum fine of €25,000. The offence consists of uttering material "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion", when the intent and result is "outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion". A defence is permitted for work of "genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value". "Religion" excludes profit-driven organizations or those using "oppressive psychological manipulation".


God always wins, science sucks

Handsome Bob

I'm not religious but I find the demonisation of religion, coupled with the circle jerking over science quite tiresome to be honest. Science has both negative and positive aspects, just like religion does. For one, depending on where you live, science means you can be sitting in your house and the next moment you can be dead because a bomb was dropped on you. You might say that's an abuse of science and it is. But the same reasoning can be applied to religion and too many people like to ignore that.

CrazyRabbit

God's sole purpose is to make people feel righteous, give the illusion of morality & provide the hope that there is an existence after death.

galwayrush

I only had a look here to see the score.. So who's winning?:rolleyes:

philologos

There isn't a contest. One can believe in God, and one can regard science as an intrinsic part of God's creative plan.

For more click here, and here.

/thread

Mickeroo

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm not religious but I find the demonisation of religion, coupled with circle jerking over science quite tiresome to be honest. Science has both negative and positive aspects, just like religion does. For one, depending on where you live, science means you can be sitting in your house and the next moment you can be dead because a bomb was dropped on you. You might say that's an abuse of science and it is. But the same reasoning can be applied to religion and too many people like to ignore that.

Dropping bombs on houses ain't science, thats like saying beating someone to death with a plank of wood is carpentry.

More human nature than anything i think.....

I agree though, it's a tiresome and pointless argument.

Myrddin

darkman2 wrote: »

Does God exist - or does Science trump all? What do you think?

Which God? The God we're conditioned to believe in? Or maybe Buddah? The Hindu Gods? Or Zeus even? Or Ra? The ancient Chinese Gods? All these Gods are/were legitimate to their believers, despite the "no false" Gods clause of Christianity.

Science doesn't trump it all, there's many things left unexplained, but religion seems like more of a code of cultural ethics/way to live life thing than anything concrete.

Min

As Jakkass said, "There isn't a contest".

For example - a Catholic priest came up with the big bang theory for the creation of the universe.
Most of the discoveries in science have been by people of religious belief.

Religion doesn't stop people wanting to find out how something works, how to improve on a design or coming up with theories.

The Vatican has it's pontifical academy of science, it is made up of people of all beliefs, over a third are Nobel winners in the area of science.

It is a myth there is this religion versus science, it is a myth created by anti-religious people who like to think that only they can think rationally, if you believe in God it must mean the person is irrational.
People who think like that are the irrational people.

Human curiosity means there is no versus when it comes to religion and science.

Craebear

If you think religion and science are truly compatible then methinks you are picking and choosing from that dusty old tome of yours. The bible is your holy book, maybe you should treat it as such.

Voodu Child

I'd like to see any of you so called 'scientists' explain miracles like magnets and double-rainbows.

Handsome Bob

Mickeroo wrote: »

Dropping bombs on houses ain't science, thats like saying beating someone to death with a plank of wood is carpentry.

More human nature than anything i think.....

I agree though, it's a tiresome and pointless argument.

Dropping bombs is not science, you are right, but the latter is manipulated in order to achieve the former. I'm not blaming science, I'm just merely pointing out that it can be abused in order to cause harm. Just like religion can be abused in order to cause harm. At the end of the day, and it's a bit of a cliche, but it's the person who is holding the gun that is causing the damage rather than the gun itself.

landsleaving

Craebear wrote: »

If you think religion and science are truly compatible then methinks you are picking and choosing from that dusty old tome of yours. The bible is your holy book, maybe you should treat it as such.

No need for that, there's a simple test to find out if science and religion are compatible.

Results: http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=Science&name2=Religion

5uspect

Jakkass wrote: »

There isn't a contest. One can believe in God, and one can regard science as an intrinsic part of God's creative plan.

For more click here, and here.

/thread

Rubbish. Science is a self correcting methodology for determining the best model for making predictions about the world. To wrap it in an untestable belief system is to ignore the very purpose of science and to limit it's scope.

You presuppose a conclusion for science which in inherently unscientific.

The_Kew_Tour

henryporter wrote: »

If God existed he wold have saved the Twin Towers and smote down the infidels who thought up such a dastardly plan to begin with

And maybe about a trillion different other things

SV

henryporter wrote: »

If God existed he wold have saved the Twin Towers and smote down the infidels who thought up such a dastardly plan to begin with

That depends on what God you believe in.

MagicMarker

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Dropping bombs is not science, you are right, but the latter is manipulated in order to achieve the former. I'm not blaming science, I'm just merely pointing out that it can be abused in order to cause harm. Just like religion can be abused in order to cause harm. At the end of the day, and it's a bit of a cliche, but it's the person who is holding the gun that is causing the damage rather than the gun itself.

Out of curiosity, how is religion abused to cause harm?

philologos

5uspect wrote: »

You presuppose a conclusion for science which in inherently unscientific.

Dare I say the same for claiming that atheists have a monopoly over science, when clearly there are a large number of scientists who are believers?

Deus Ex Machina

Min wrote: »

As Jakkass said, "There isn't a contest".

For example - a Catholic priest came up with the big bang theory for the creation of the universe.
Most of the discoveries in science have been by people of religious belief.

Religion doesn't stop people wanting to find out how something works, how to improve on a design or coming up with theories.

The Vatican has it's pontifical academy of science, it is made up of people of all beliefs, over a third are Nobel winners in the area of science.

It is a myth there is this religion versus science, it is a myth created by anti-religious people who like to think that only they can think rationally, if you believe in God it must mean the person is irrational.
People who think like that are the irrational people.

Human curiosity means there is no versus when it comes to religion and science.

I don't think it is fair to say that non religious people claim that those of faith completely lack the ability to think rationally, clearly that isn't the case, as you say yourself Newton and Lemaitre were devoutly religious. What they will claim is that religious belief itself is not a rational belief, that much is clear, as a belief in god requires faith, a position which is diametrically opposed to logic.

That is fine, matters such as the existence of god are not in the purview of science, but the problem is that quite often religion moves beyond the domain of faith and into that of science, ie by making testable hypotheses. This is seen in the case of intelligent design versus evolution in schools for example, and that is where science has to step in and look at the veracity of these hypotheses.

KeithAFC

When people say religion has caused so much pain, so has weapons made via science which has played a part in creating all sorts of weapons. Look at the nuclear bomb. People choose what they want to suit a certain agenda. And i am NOT religious.

5uspect

SV wrote: »

That depends on what God you believe in.

It's the same one, just a different flavour.

5uspect

KeithAFC wrote: »

When people say religion has caused so much pain, so has weapons made via science which has played a part in creating all sorts of weapons. Look at the nuclear bomb. People choose what they want to suit a certain agenda. And i am NOT religious.

You're confusing engineering with science.

Handsome Bob

MagicMarker wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how is religion abused to cause harm?

I would have said people using their Quarans and Bibles to justify war, violence and hatred.

MagicMarker

KeithAFC wrote: »

When people say religion has caused so much pain, so has weapons made via science which has played a part in creating all sorts of weapons. Look at the nuclear bomb. People choose what they want to suit a certain agenda. And i am NOT religious.

It's not that religion has caused pain. It's that religion is complete bullshít.

Just because someone may do something good in the name of religion, doesn't mean that religion is any less absurd.

MagicMarker

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I would have said people using their Quarans and Bibles to justify war, violence and hatred.

Well then you must think none of these things are in the Bible or the Qur'an?

Just because we have learned that killing women who aren't virgins on their wedding night is wrong, doesn't mean others who still believe this are abusing the bible/qur'an.

It is the word of God after all.

5uspect

Jakkass wrote: »

Dare I say the same for claiming that atheists have a monopoly over science, when clearly there are a large number of scientists who are believers?

You may. But they don't use holy water to do PCR.
They don't perform mass spectroscopy on communion wafers.
They may privately pray that they get a research grant tho...

The difference is that atheists tend to be skeptics. Being skeptical is an essential part of science.

Putting it the other way around skeptics do have a monopoly on science and skeptics tend to be atheists.

Handsome Bob

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well then you must think none of these things are in the Bible or the Qur'an?

Just because we have learned that killing women who aren't virgins on their wedding night is wrong, doesn't mean others who still believe this are abusing the bible/qur'an.

It is the word of God after all.

I wouldn't be all that familiar with the Qur'an, does it literally demand that followers murder women or engage in mass murder?

Scuid Mhór

darkman2 wrote: »

Does God exist - or does Science trump all? What do you think?

Check this out - pro science btw


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-god-delusion/4od#2919518

all i'm gonna say is that putting your faith in something as far outside the box as string theory is just as extreme as putting your faith in an omnipotent being.

sheesh

ok I'll bite.

I agree that god is an delusion but its a very important delusion.
some sort of religion exists in almost every culture. It serves a very important role in stabilising society.

I don't think you should rubbish peoples beliefs .

Mickeroo

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all that familiar with the Qur'an, does it literally demand that followers murder women or engage in mass murder?

and awaaaaaaay we go :P

Scuid Mhór

sheesh wrote: »

ok I'll bite.

I agree that god is an delusion but its a very important delusion.
some sort of religion exists in almost every culture. It serves a very important role in stabilising society.

I don't think you should rubbish peoples beliefs .

this is a pretty valid point. if god's existence was ultimately disproved today, how many laws would be broken by your average do-gooders? mass chaos would reign and nobody would be able to control it.

weldoninhio

MagicMarker wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how is religion abused to cause harm?

I can't say where I got this, but it is a complete transcript of the conversation between Osama and the 9/11 hijackers.

Osama: I want you to train as pilots, learn how to handle a jet
Plane Crasher: Cool
Osama: then I want you to hijack a plane and crash it into the World Trade Centre.
PC: WTF, I might get hurt, or even worse killed.
Osama: Sure it's grand, I spoke to God he said it's cool and he'll have a hape of virgins waiting for you.
PC: Sound I'll do it.

5uspect

sheesh wrote: »

ok I'll bite.

I agree that god is an delusion but its a very important delusion.
some sort of religion exists in almost every culture. It serves a very important role in stabilising society.

I don't think you should rubbish peoples beliefs .

Not really. Morality is not a function of religion.
We have evolved to be social altruistic creatures.

I've heard this argument before and it generally says more about the person making the claim that the claim itself.

If you think that without religion we would be all out murdering, raping, and eating pork and fetus sandwiches what the hell kind of perverse things do you want to do but are too afraid?

Since you're not religious yourself I would wonder what you think your average person is capable of?

smcgiff

Giant Squid wrote: »

this is a pretty valid point. if god's existence was ultimately disproved today, how many laws would be broken by your average do-gooders? mass chaos would reign and nobody would be able to control it.

Please tell me you forgot to insert this... :rolleyes:

And as for the previous poster - of course it's valid to rubbish people's religious beliefs if you think they are rubbish.

Who here wouldn't love to have a hop off of Tom Cruise and his religious beliefs?

biko

Science locked this thread, I challenge God to open it.

We have religious forums for a reason, use them.

Micky Dolenz

biko wrote: »

Science locked this thread, I challenge God to open it.

We have religious forums for a reason, use them.

God Called me,

he told me to reopen this and he said something about you burning in hell.










Sorry, couldn't resist :P

galwayrush

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

God Called me,

he told me to reopen this and he said something about you burning in hell.
Sorry, couldn't resist :P

I never said that..:mad::mad::mad:

philologos

Kudos for re-opening the thread

5uspect wrote: »

Not really. Morality is not a function of religion

Yes, yes it is!

If Judeo-Christianity prescribes a moral way of living to individuals, that certainly is one of the functions of Judeo-Christianity.

Moral action certainly has arisen out of faith before, it is disingenuous to claim that it hasn't.

deise go deo

5uspect wrote: »

The difference is that atheists tend to be skeptics. Being skeptical is an essential part of science.

Putting it the other way around skeptics do have a monopoly on science and skeptics tend to be atheists.

Right so because sicentists tend to be skeptics and atheists also tend to be skeptics then scientists tend to be athiests is it?

That has to be one of the more intresting leaps in logic iv come accross:rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz

God Called again.

He said there is only one true religion but ye'll have too figure that out for yourselves.

Oh and something about ye all burning in hell.