CAP 2 - CAI - Additional Support Measures

Rickyroma

Hi All

I have been asked to post the following on behalf of the CAI.





Dear Student,

We can understand how disappointed many of you are with the recent CAP2 results. However, it is important to look forward and remain focused on passing your outstanding papers in October.

Many of you have already enrolled on the CAP2 Revision Course. This email is to highlight additional supports that are available to you.

Support 1 – Additional Cross-Marking sessions in Financial Reporting and SFMA

These will be run along the lines of the Cross Marking sessions led by Paul Monahan in Auditing and Tax during the year, and will have the following features:

• New case material, typical of the material that will represent 50% to 60% of your October papers in Financial Reporting & SFMA
• An authentic marking scheme
• Detailed lead through the case by Paul Monahan
• Cases circulated beforehand to give students a chance to practice them in advance
• A corrector’s perspective on your paper

These will be run on the following dates and locations:

• Cork 20 September 18:30 Cork IT (room tbc)
• Dublin 21 September 18:30 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2
• Limerick 22 September 18:30 University of Limerick – room tbc.
• Galway 23 September 18:30 Venue tbc
• Belfast 24 September 18:30 CA House, Linenhall St, Belfast
• Dublin 25 September 10:00 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2


These sessions have worked very well in the past and we hope you will find the opportunity to attempt new, relevant material helpful. There is no charge for this session, and no need to pre-register; just download the cases when they are available (you will be notified), attempt the case and bring it along.

Support 2 – Diagnostic Sessions answering specific technical queries

We will run a series of lectures (free of charge) which will be based in Dublin and broadcast online. This is not a typical lecture, but designed to give technical answers to specific areas of concern. If you would like to have a specific technical query addressed, it is vital to complete the online survey below by Wednesday, September 8th. The lecturers will construct an appropriate session around the areas of most concern.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/cap2diagnostic

I would stress that this is not a ‘revision course’ and is unlikely to have to scope to deal with large areas in detail. It should be used to provide guidance on specific queries.

The sessions will take place on the following dates:
• Auditing 13th September 18:30 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2
• Financial Reporting 14th September 18:30 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2
• SFMA 15th September 18:30 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2
• Taxation 16th September 18:30 CA House, 47 – 49 Pearse St, Dublin 2
• Taxation NI 16th September 18:30 CA House, Linenhall St, Belfast*

*Please not there are no internet broadcast facilities in the Belfast theatres

Support 3 – Stress Management

It is natural that many students will be feeling some degree of stress at this time. Some stress can be positive and work to your advantage, but when stress is severe and ongoing it can have a profoundly negative effect. It is important to effectively manage your stress in the lead up to the October examination.

We have engaged a stress specialist, and will run a session on effective stress management on in early September (exact date tbc). To assess demand, it would be helpful if you would indicate whether this is something you would like to attend:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/stress_session

Support 4 – Annotated scripts

The formal exam solutions give tutorial level answers to each examination paper. However we feel it would be beneficial for students to see ‘real’ scripts that have passed or failed the recent summer examination, and the rationale behind the awarding (or not) of marks.

This report will be made available online over the coming weeks.

Support 5 – Tutorial Review of your script

Students should already be aware of the tutorial review facility which is available (at a charge) to each student. This will provide specific guidance on your recent exam sitting, indicating areas where improvements can be made.

We recommend these additional supports to you and hope you find them useful.

Stay positive and focused on passing in October.

Kind regards,

Ronan O’Loughlin,
Director of Education

smcgiff

Some Sound help here - I especially like support 4. I've stickied this for now.

Pisco Sour

smcgiff wrote: »

Some Sound help here - I especially like support 4. I've stickied this for now.

I suspect the students would have rathered additional help BEFORE the first sitting of the exam, not after.

smcgiff

04072511 wrote: »

I suspect the students would have rathered additional help BEFORE the first sitting of the exam, not after.

Ah well - hindsight is 20/20 vision. Damned if the do, damned if they don't.*


















*That's my quota of clichés used up for tonight - promise!

Ideo

Did the institute ask you to post this message on boards rickyroma? Either way I actually think they are acknowledging their shortcomings in the CAP 2s this year

Rickyroma

Ideo wrote: »

Did the institute ask you to post this message on boards rickyroma? Either way I actually think they are acknowledging their shortcomings in the CAP 2s this year

Yes.

To declare an interest, I'm the CASSD Education Officer.

My understanding is that the email (above) to be sent to CAP 2 repeat students could not be issued by the Institute in the normal manner due to a tech problem with the website.

Therefore Sharon Walsh emailed everyone from her own email account and asked that CASSD assist in publicising the initiatives. They will also be posted on the CASSI website and students should now have received the mail from Sharon.

In respect of your second point, the Institute has come in for some stong criticism regarding CAP 2s this year and has acknowledged that mistakes were made. However, I believe them when they say they want students to pass the exams.

I think the initiatives will be of benefit, especially the Tutorial reports and availability of previous actual sample answers, via the Annotated Scripts, as SMcGiff has highlighted. Seeing how previous answers were marked should give a clear indication of the the standard of answer that is required.

The initiatives above are constructive and positive measures and are, for the most part, based directly on concerns raised by students.

Students have continued to highlight how the current economic position has increased pressure on students and exam realted stress. The Stress Management session is a direct response to this issue. It may be of benefit and it may not. But it is difficult to discern any motivation for holding this session other than that it is an attempt to help students.

The publication of additional material is a direct response to feedback received in respect of the quality of support materials currently available.

There will be many who view the additional measures as window dressing. I would suggest that this is a harsh assessment. I think the 35% pass rate was a wake up call to the Institute itself that all was not as it should be. The measures above are necessarily short term and reactionary in nature because the focus is (rightly) on getting students through the repeats in early October. That said, there are also plans and longer term initiatives being discussed.

There are still issues outstanding. CASSI is looking forward to developing a co-ordinated and constructive response with the Institute to these issues.

Foxtrol

These have to be welcomed but are unfortunately items which could and should have been put in place before the first sitting rather than a paniced afterthought due to pressure from students and their firms.

Rickyroma do you know if there is any further news on the seemingly logical movement of the tax exam to earlier in the week?

PGavaghan

Foxtrol wrote: »

These have to be welcomed but are unfortunately items which could and should have been put in place before the first sitting rather than a paniced afterthought due to pressure from students and their firms.

Rickyroma do you know if there is any further news on the seemingly logical movement of the tax exam to earlier in the week?

Hi Foxtrol, I am the CASSI Education Officer and I can confirm that the tax exam will be on the friday of exam week for the resite.

Following the summer sitting, we recieved feedback from students requesting that because this was a closed book exam, that it be moved to the start of the week. The Institute agreed to this, but when it was changed, other students had already made travel arrangments for it to be on the friday, so it has been moved back. As far as I am aware, from June 2011, the CAP 2 tax exam will be on the tuesday, but for October 2010, it will be on the friday as normal.

This has been updated on the exams website http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/Students/Student-Services/Exams/CAP2/

Hope this helps

Rickyroma

Foxtrol wrote: »

These have to be welcomed but are unfortunately items which could and should have been put in place before the first sitting rather than a paniced afterthought due to pressure from students and their firms.

Rickyroma do you know if there is any further news on the seemingly logical movement of the tax exam to earlier in the week?

Yes, I can confirm that the timetable will not be amended.

It will stand as previously announced for the Autumn repeats.

The order is -

1 Auditing & Assurance Tuesday 5th Oct. 9.30 a.m. - 1.00 p.m.
2 Strategic Finance & Mngt.Acct. Wednesday 6th Oct. 9.30 a.m. - 1.00 p.m.
3 Financial Reporting Thursday 7th Oct. 9.30 a.m. - 1.00 p.m.
4 Taxation II (ROI) & (NI) Friday 8th Oct. 9.30 a.m. - 1.00 p.m.

I think a change was always unlikely. Once confirmed, many students would have made travel plans based on the timtable, including flights to and from foreign countries for international students and/or holidays for others.

My understanding is that the CAI may have opened up potential liability for cost of re-arranging travel plans, including flights, trains, hotels etc if the change had gone ahead.

A change to the order and the introduction of a "rest day" mid way through the exams remain firmly on our agenda for next summer at both CAP2 and FAE. This is at the discussion stage at the moment and we will update the student body in due course.

Foxtrol

Thanks PGavaghan & Rickyroma for your quick responses.

It is unfortunate that these changes could not be made for the repeats as it would have definitely reduced a lot of stress felt by students who are repeating a number of subjects as well as tax.

Its probably getting off topic but though it is great to see that these sensible moves are being made to the timetable for those sitting next year I feel the point must be raised as to why these changes are only being requested now and will only come into place for the third year of CAP 2's, especially with the changes seemingly being so simple and the Institutes apparent openness to it. CASSI should really look internally and seek answers to why they had not been requested and pushed for sooner.

PGavaghan

Foxtrol wrote: »

Thanks PGavaghan & Rickyroma for your quick responses.

It is unfortunate that these changes could not be made for the repeats as it would have definitely reduced a lot of stress felt by students who are repeating a number of subjects as well as tax.

Its probably getting off topic but though it is great to see that these sensible moves are being made to the timetable for those sitting next year I feel the point must be raised as to why these changes are only being requested now and will only come into place for the third year of CAP 2's, especially with the changes seemingly being so simple and the Institutes apparent openness to it. CASSI should really look internally and seek answers to why they had not been requested and pushed for sooner.

Hi Foxtrol,

The issue of the timetable did not come up in feedback recieved after last summer or repeat sittings of CAP 2. Indeed, I sat CAP 2 last year and tbh, I was so used to closed book exams from A-Levels/College/CAP 1 that it was the open book exams that I was freaking out about more, so personally I didn't think of it as an issue in 2009.

Following the summer 2010 CAP 2 exams, a few students raised it as an issue and CASSI responded by including it in our post exam report and raising it with the Institute at a meeting in July this year. The Institute agreed to change the time table at the next available opportunity (Oct 2010 sitting) however, when this was done, it didn't suit some students, who would have had to incur additional expenses if the exam was moved to the tuesday.

CASSI can only act on feedback recieved from students and from the experience of committee members sitting exams. It is fair to say that we have recieved a larger volume of feedback in the last 24 months and I believe this is a positive step, in that more students are engaging with their student society. In the past the regional committees held post exam forums, where students would provide feedback, however these were often poorley attended. Some committees had discontinued this by 2009 and CASSI have encouraged all regional committees to set up an e-mail feedback service in place of the forums, to ensure all students have the opportunity to make their voices heard.

In the future (and this will probably take place in 2011), CASSI hope to introduce an online survey, so that results can be collected and analysed quicker (thereby extending the 1pm deadline currently nessary) again to increase particpation. To be honest what is holding this up, is time and funds (subscription to the online softwere). We hope to have both these resolved by the end of 2010 for roll out in 2011.

Finally, I would encourage all students to get in touch early in the year, as currently about 99% of feedback is recieved post exams, which is too late to make an impact on things like taching support materials, timetable issues etc. The committee isn't perfect, I'm not saying it is, but please keep us busy and let us know what you would like us to be doing and we will respond to all requests/concerns as best we can.

If anyone has any comments, please contact me directly at pegavaghan@deloitte.ie and I will get back to you next week (I'm doing my FAEs this week:eek:).

shellybow

PGavaghan

I appreciate that your doing your FAE this week (as am i) but to say that the timing of the tax paper was not mentioned in exam feedback last year is untrue.

The best of my memory remembers it being brought you with education officers in the north well before the exams and it is actually mentioned in the 2009 CAP 2 report under Tax (NI).

PGavaghan

shellybow wrote: »

PGavaghan

I appreciate that your doing your FAE this week (as am i) but to say that the timing of the tax paper was not mentioned in exam feedback last year is untrue.

The best of my memory remembers it being brought you with education officers in the north well before the exams and it is actually mentioned in the 2009 CAP 2 report under Tax (NI).

Hi Shellybow,
Appologies for the confusion, you are infact correct and I did write the exam reports last year (I guess FAE revion is pushing somethings to the back of my head this week lol).

There have been a number of meetings held throughout the year and I would need to go back to the mins of these. Dealings relating to the CAP 1 & 2 courses would have been dealt with at the Student Liason meeting in Jan which I will go back and check the misn of as I wasn't able to attend due to work commitments. The meeting was however attended by other representatives from CASSI so I am sure it was discussed, regardless, when student services held a number of focus froups arround christmas and this issue was brought up again. I think it was on the cards at that stage, but to be honest I cant remember why it wasn't implimented for summer 2010.

The next time I raised this was following the summer 2010 exams at a meeting in July (which I suppose is why that one is fresh in my head). Leave it with me until next week and I will get an answer to you

stefar

Hi - As an additional aid to students, I think it would both interesting and valuable if the CAP 2 debrief Questions session was included on the CAI website (not just Ronan O'Loughlin speaking) -it's as if the CAI airburshed the questions asked by students completely out of it. All students wanted these questions to be asked, ie explanation for the errors in solutions, mistakes made in FR paper, double marking scheme and unfairness of this to some etc etc...the list is endless.
It would also be good for those students who were unable to attend, due to short notice of the event, to witness the apology by Ronan that the CAI had screwed up the FR paper.
Rickyroma / PGavaghan - do you have any idea why this part of the session was not put up on the site, or can we assume it's because the CAI was too embarassed to put it up and show the level of real anger that students feel towards their 'professional' Institute.

Thanks for your efforts & best of luck in your exams.

R0N BURGUNDY

lets face it - there is no way in hell they were going to put that up and fair play to ronan for the way he answered it which was honest and frank. people going on and on about it isnt going to help. at the end of the day, he was there giving (what i thought was) an encouraging and helpful lecture on how many of us can get out of this sh1thole that we are in. we got the answers we needed = financial reporting examiner got sacked (idiot) and we should now know what we need to do. at the end of the day = we are the ones hoping to get into this institute = we don't want to have the name tarnished on the way in do we now? that's one good reason for not going totally public in what is a complete embarrassment.

lets just hope the resits are fair. thats all i ask.

Rickyroma

stefar wrote: »

Rickyroma / PGavaghan - do you have any idea why this part of the session was not put up on the site, or can we assume it's because the CAI was too embarassed to put it up and show the level of real anger that students feel towards their 'professional' Institute.

Thanks for your efforts & best of luck in your exams.

I have to say I have no idea why it was not included. I will let you know if we received any indication.

Thanks for the good luck message and best of luck to you too.

larry2009

How come if you failed exams and got your contract terminated you are no longer able to access the student centre on the website?

honeymonster

Are the summer solutions out yet?

I found the exam papers but not the soloutions.

Need the roi tax

Rickyroma

honeymonster wrote: »

Are the summer solutions out yet?

I found the exam papers but not the soloutions.

Need the roi tax

Suggested Solutions have been posted.

You need to log into the site on the main page, bottom right. Then click "Students" in the top right corner. Then click "Exams" in the bottom left (Do NOT go into the Student Centre).

Select "Exam Solutions"

Rickyroma

Hi All

I have been asked by the Institute to post the following in respect of CAP 2 SFMA - Additional Support.



'To all October 2010 CAP 2 SFMA candidates

As promised in the recent note outlining the support available to those students sitting CAP 2 in October I am attaching the SFMA Case for the cross marking sessions to be held from 20 to 25 September. To get the most from the session I suggest you attempt the case in advance of the secheduled session for your centre, and bring it along on the relevant evening. It should take slightly over two hours to complete and will be good practice at a range of topics, as well as providing the basis to understand where marks are gained and lost in this paper,

I will issue its Financial Reporting counterpart shortly.

I look forward to working with on the scheduled dates.

Regards

Paul Monahan.'

R0N BURGUNDY

the layout of this case is excellent compared to the sfma one we had. i dont know if it was also because i was trying too hard and maybe stressed but in the sfma exam i was all over the place with the stupid & strange layout of the financial information they provided. it was crap in all honesty. but maybe il be a bit better in the resit now i know what madness they can throw at me.